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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 03-15-14, 06:50 AM   #126
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Is there a published study somewhere that supports this conclusion? How many people were involved?
Look up Mayo Clinic and John Hopkins.

It is more like 100 years.

Of course if we went back about 10,000 years before man began to consume grains, we'd have perhaps a few hundred thousands years of data.
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Old 03-15-14, 06:54 AM   #127
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I know that ketogenic diets have been recommended for some, but not all, epileptics. I've yet to find any study where someone followed up to determine the long-term health implications of the diet. You keep talking like the data exists, so I wonder where it can be found? I see quite a few people throwing around anecdotal evidence about the benefits of this diet, but as far as I can determine nobody here has followed the diet for more than a few years nor can point to any scientific study that supports its benefits...
The Framingham Study demonstrated that consuming saturated fat does not cause coronary artery disease and that there was NO correlation between cholesterol levels and fatality.

I'll take bacon over Statins anyday.
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Old 03-15-14, 10:06 AM   #128
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Look up Mayo Clinic and John Hopkins.

It is more like 100 years.

Of course if we went back about 10,000 years before man began to consume grains, we'd have perhaps a few hundred thousands years of data.
I trusted in Mayo Clinic research more that my wife, but if you do your own research and dig a little deeper you may find that they are known for killing simple, successful alternative treatments that don't involve use of heavy pharmaceutical drugs.
We live in a world that money are always in the first place... ( ___________________________________ <---- room for your own conclusion )
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Old 03-15-14, 10:42 AM   #129
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There are several fundamental problems with trying to evaluate long term dietary outcomes. Peoples diets change over the years, the definitions of low carb are especially flawed (where as most low carb diets rely on the presence of dietary ketones for weight loss, they do not necessarily advocate that for long term maintenance, rather suggesting the various sources of to tolerance (defined as not gaining unwanted weight). Don't know if anyone has seen the actual journal publication from Cell Metabolism thats been hitting the press lately, I have not. It in some form is claiming that a "high animal protein" diet is as bad for the 50+ cohort as smoking, at least as far as cancer is concerned. I be willing to bet that there is some distortion in the press reports, but hold my opinion unitl I can see the actual article.

So anyway, in the case of low carb diets,there are a lot of sub-programs out thee, low car w/ "adequate protein; low carb high protien; low carb high fat; and so one. There is not just one that we can point to and evaluate, so the research simple cannot be done, because of the somewhat vague and variable conditions. Its also not possible to have a well controlled long term study on human subjects, because its simple not possible to lock people up and control what they actually eat. People have been known to lie or make mistakes in recording what and how much they eat. Animal studies don't necessarily translate well to human metabolism and disease states.

This condition is the same for nearly all macronutrient balances. So asking for long term studies on the efficacy of any diet is not going to yield much satisfaction, its too much a moving target and way too variable for the way most people eat.

After all tis wind, I guess I am just saying that each of us will do what we think is best, and this forum should be about supporting peoples choices and encouraging them along the way, not slamming their choice. Asking for "proof" is fine and dandy, but it really doesn't exist and I can say that any article found, even in peer reviewed literature, will have limitations and detractors, that being the probing and questioning nature of science. Then there is the question of whats an appropriate source? Peer review? Popular published books/articles? Web Pages/ Blogs?

I can say that my own personal experience was my best blood fat profile, cholesterol, weight, body composition, blood pressure, and overall health indicators occurred when I was eating less than 100 grams a day of carbohydrate, 3-4 4 ounce servings of protein based food, and fatty foods to make up calorie balance to stop weight loss.

But alas, I lose the desire to eat that way as the pasta and bread monster comes to visit, and now I am sitting at 260, up from 170, and cannot get started in losing.. but thats another story all together.

So we all will have our opinions, and will eat the way we feel is best, for our own results and needs. Be kind and gentle, its difficult
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Old 03-15-14, 11:21 AM   #130
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I can say that my own personal experience was my best blood fat profile, cholesterol, weight, body composition, blood pressure, and overall health indicators occurred when I was eating less than 100 grams a day of carbohydrate, 3-4 4 ounce servings of protein based food, and fatty foods to make up calorie balance to stop weight loss.

But alas, I lose the desire to eat that way as the pasta and bread monster comes to visit, and now I am sitting at 260, up from 170, and cannot get started in losing.. but thats another story all together.

So we all will have our opinions, and will eat the way we feel is best, for our own results and needs. Be kind and gentle, its difficult
My diet is the same... < 100 grams of carbs a day (usually), adequate protein (60 grams) with the caloric balance made up with fats.

I never had to battle with that much weight and staying on this way of eating has kept me at my fighting weight for 2 years with no worries or effort.
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Old 03-15-14, 01:41 PM   #131
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I trusted in Mayo Clinic research more that my wife, but if you do your own research and dig a little deeper you may find that they are known for killing simple, successful alternative treatments that don't involve use of heavy pharmaceutical drugs.
We live in a world that money are always in the first place... ( ___________________________________ <---- room for your own conclusion )
how bout iodine....every wonder why Japanese women have lower incidence of breast cancer and fibrocystic lumps?
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Old 03-15-14, 01:56 PM   #132
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how bout iodine....every wonder why Japanese women have lower incidence of breast cancer and fibrocystic lumps?
Japanese diet is amazing. I don't think you find anything bad about it other than eating dolphin meat, which is full of toxic mercury lol
As far as I remember they are one of the most healthy countries in the world, and they say its all about sea food diet.
Another very interesting thing about their food is that they are eating each and every part of the animal/fish body. Nothing goes to waste. Their meats are also superior quality comparing to ours. It's not uncommon to eat RAW chicken or beef there.
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Old 03-15-14, 02:16 PM   #133
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Japanese diet is amazing. I don't think you find anything bad about it other than eating dolphin meat, which is full of toxic mercury lol
As far as I remember they are one of the most healthy countries in the world, and they say its all about sea food diet.
Another very interesting thing about their food is that they are eating each and every part of the animal/fish body. Nothing goes to waste. Their meats are also superior quality comparing to ours. It's not uncommon to eat RAW chicken or beef there.
The life expectancy of Japanese women living in the North NJ area is 91 years old.

Fish, seaweed, and green tea.

I eat raw fish and uncooked eggs all the time. I generally avoid eating raw meat unless I killed it.
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Old 03-15-14, 02:35 PM   #134
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The life expectancy of Japanese women living in the North NJ area is 91 years old.

Fish, seaweed, and green tea.

I eat raw fish and uncooked eggs all the time. I generally avoid eating raw meat unless I killed it.
You and me will see 22nd century my friend!
I also enjoy eating seaweed, eating fish and drinking green tea. Raw fish /typical sushi/ I only eat when it was previously frozen to kill all the worms /that is the way to make it safe/.
I used to eat this every morning Kogel mogel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia when I was young. The only raw meat I eat was horse meat, and this on weekly/monthly basis Steak tartare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
But hey, times changed, our meats are fused with deadly bacterias because of the way they raise and butcher the meat. I try to stay away from my old favorites, unless organic and from known farmer.
One day I strangely ended up on some German or Polish website were people were researching the "easy and quick way too kill myself". I think just eating one small piece or just licking regular chicken from big box store will do it
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Old 03-15-14, 03:57 PM   #135
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Almost all of the meat and all of my eggs are from local sources. Beef from a local farm that only grass feeding. I am concerned more about cesium-137 and Iodine-131 then mercury in my fish. I need a cup of green tea right now but am toasted after having my legs twisted off by some really thin riders in the hills today.
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Old 03-15-14, 05:08 PM   #136
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It is great diet x works for one and diet y works for another. My experience has been diets only work for a short time. My observation has been when your working method of eating/exercise becomes your 'lifestyle' then you will get long term results. I have only been trying to control my weight for 30 or so years and my success only came when I ate a full, healthy diet and exercised regularly-except for all u can eat pasta at the olive garden

I seem only to lose weight when I BURN more calories than I CONSUME, go figure right?
Yes, but, but, but... it has been explained to us in another of these threads in Training and Nutrition by one of the "experts" in promoting this sort of diet that the laws of thermodynamics do NOT apply to the human body, and that the notion of losing weight based on a deficit in net calories is nonsense.
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Old 03-15-14, 05:40 PM   #137
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Almost all of the meat and all of my eggs are from local sources. Beef from a local farm that only grass feeding. I am concerned more about cesium-137 and Iodine-131 then mercury in my fish. I need a cup of green tea right now but am toasted after having my legs twisted off by some really thin riders in the hills today.
How is your local real estate market? I may move just for that
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Old 03-18-14, 04:35 PM   #138
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Are his recipes as good as they look on Youtube? I am not sure about fats while riding.
Well, *I* think so. The ones I've tried have been good. Fairly low fat - just a bit of fat to cook things, really.

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Gastric emptying or lack thereof (bloating) is usually eating too concentrated of a sugary drink (osmololity) and simply too much of it especially when the electrolye balance is shot.......bloating. Overhydration by drinking too much is bad (hyponatremia).
Well, it's more of an issue that fats and proteins don't digest as fast and based on the experience of the peloton don't really help while out riding. That's been my observation as well. I personally react badly to high fat. Sends my IBS into overdrive.
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Old 03-18-14, 07:20 PM   #139
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Yes, but, but, but... it has been explained to us in another of these threads in Training and Nutrition by one of the "experts" in promoting this sort of diet that the laws of thermodynamics do NOT apply to the human body, and that the notion of losing weight based on a deficit in net calories is nonsense.
You must have been misreading things although as an engineer you should understand that the laws of thermodynamics apply to closed systems and can only be applied loosely to human beings because we are affected by hormones and are not a closed system.

Scenario 1: A 26 year old woman in otherwise good physical shape is prescribed a high dose of prednisone for a severe allergic reaction and puts herself on an 800 calorie a day diet knowing the effects of prednisone on the human body and gains 40 pounds in 3 weeks while remaining moderately active.

Scenario 2: 28 year old woman gets a bad batch of thyroid hormone (and confirms this with the FDA), becomes hypothyroid and reduces her caloric intake and gains 50 pounds in one month while remaining physically active.

Scenario 3: Same woman at 39 is recovering from pertussis and is unable to participate in intense activity and has to reduce her level of physical activity and consumes 2000-2300 calories a day on a low carb diet, loses 60 pounds in 8 months and sees all her lipid numbers improve, blood sugars remain level, and the absorption of vitamins and minerals improves.

I don't support calorie restriction as a method for weight loss... drop below the minimum to maintain basic functions (as many do) and your body reacts by slowing your metabolism to adjust for what it thinks is famine.

Resume normal caloric intake and the weight usually comes back and we all know diets don't work.

Changing the way you eat without dieting seems to be solving a lot of people's health issues... there is more than enough evidence that reducing carbohydrates while maintaining the same caloric intake with the addition or re-introduction of fats results in weight loss and better health.
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Old 03-19-14, 04:07 AM   #140
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You must have skipped physics.

The first law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed or transferred.

Some people have dumbed this down to the mantra of "calories in / calories out" and try to apply this to human beings which are not a closed system and subject to countless variables.

Most people don't understand the metabolic process very well...and would guess most aren't married to someone who has a deep background in biochemistry and cellular biology.
I didn't misread anything.

There is so much more that could be said here, but you continue to use your wife as an example in your posts, and it is only in deference to her that I don't say it.
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Old 03-19-14, 05:03 AM   #141
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Resume normal caloric intake and the weight usually comes back and we all know diets don't work.

Changing the way you eat without dieting seems to be solving a lot of people's health issues... there is more than enough evidence that reducing carbohydrates while maintaining the same caloric intake with the addition or re-introduction of fats results in weight loss and better health.
What is dieting and what is normal.

Normal in the statistical sense would be the average, Standard American Diet (SAD) with predictable results. Diverting from the SAD in composition or calories could be considered dieting. It seems that your definition of dieting relates only to caloric restriction. Starving is no fun and the body don't like it. One can maintain the same/similar caloric intake and radically change the composition of the intake resulting in health improvements and thus be on a "diet".


Learn how to master Leptin and maintaining weight could be easy. If anyone is interested in understanding ketosis and the overall neurochemistry.....read the linked book......Dr. Jack Kruse is a Neuro Surgeon and former fatty who has devoted considerable time and effort to understand what many of us are struggling with.

Blog Index - Living an Optimized Life

Epi-paleo Rx: The Prescription for Disease Reversal and Optimal Health: Dr. Jack Kruse: 9780989057738: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 03-19-14, 06:22 AM   #142
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Thanks for the link - looks very interesting.

Charlie
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Old 03-19-14, 08:13 AM   #143
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You must have been misreading things although as an engineer you should understand that the laws of thermodynamics apply to closed systems and can only be applied loosely to human beings because we are affected by hormones and are not a closed system.

Scenario 1: A 26 year old woman in otherwise good physical shape is prescribed a high dose of prednisone for a severe allergic reaction and puts herself on an 800 calorie a day diet knowing the effects of prednisone on the human body and gains 40 pounds in 3 weeks while remaining moderately active.

Scenario 2: 28 year old woman gets a bad batch of thyroid hormone (and confirms this with the FDA), becomes hypothyroid and reduces her caloric intake and gains 50 pounds in one month while remaining physically active.

Scenario 3: Same woman at 39 is recovering from pertussis and is unable to participate in intense activity and has to reduce her level of physical activity and consumes 2000-2300 calories a day on a low carb diet, loses 60 pounds in 8 months and sees all her lipid numbers improve, blood sugars remain level, and the absorption of vitamins and minerals improves.

I don't support calorie restriction as a method for weight loss... drop below the minimum to maintain basic functions (as many do) and your body reacts by slowing your metabolism to adjust for what it thinks is famine.

Resume normal caloric intake and the weight usually comes back and we all know diets don't work.

Changing the way you eat without dieting seems to be solving a lot of people's health issues... there is more than enough evidence that reducing carbohydrates while maintaining the same caloric intake with the addition or re-introduction of fats results in weight loss and better health.
wow,
Sorry she went through this...

Great case study, but...
wow...

Also amazed at her discipline!
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Old 03-19-14, 08:40 AM   #144
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I didn't misread anything.

There is so much more that could be said here, but you continue to use your wife as an example in your posts, and it is only in deference to her that I don't say it.
I know my wife does not mind sharing, but could give other examples.
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Old 03-19-14, 08:43 AM   #145
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wow,
Sorry she went through this...

Great case study, but...
wow...

Also amazed at her discipline!
She is from Detroit...

She is a really strong woman and things might be different if she had not experienced multiple cancers and had some other serious health issues to overcome, lots of folks don't give any thought to their health and she has been educating our primary doctor on endocrine functions since she just does not know this stuff, she lives it.
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