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-   -   I think my saddle is dead (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/935574-i-think-my-saddle-dead.html)

jazzgeek79 02-24-14 04:25 PM

I think my saddle is dead
 
1 Attachment(s)
When I first got this saddle it started to feel pretty good after about 100 miles. Lately it seems to be getting less and less comfortable. I weigh 320 these days and I am wondering if my weight is killing this particular piece of leather. First off I think I may have an abnormal amount of sag. This is with some lacing.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=365876

I only have about 1500 miles on this thing.

I haven't done any proofide in over a year so today I took it off to treat it since I commute on this thing in lots of various Florida weather and I noticed this.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=365876

If you can't tell it is the underside of a rivet. They are all cracked like this. Has anyone else ever seen this happen?

Even with the lacing it seems like this thing is uncomfortable as of late, and yes I have played with position including nose tilt.

Let me know what you guys think.

jazzgeek79 02-24-14 04:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Don't know why the pics are upside down and why one is the wrong pic. I'm gonna try reposting the broken rivet
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=365878

jazzgeek79 02-24-14 06:00 PM

I'm a dude. Also yes I forgot to mention that this is a brooks b-17 standard. surprisingly the pain is in my sit bones, and sometimes thighs (Chaffing) not in my perineum, though I could see how it might look like it would squish that area. I have considered the cambrium.

IAMAMRA 02-24-14 06:52 PM

Contact brooks, see what they say.

bhchdh 02-24-14 07:51 PM

Are the rivets actualy broken ? Are they loose ? That looks like the normal mushrooming that results from setting the rivets. As has been said above you may need to adjust the tension bolt at the nose of the saddle.

jazzgeek79 02-24-14 08:49 PM

The rivets are't loose, but they are cracked and chipped.

handsthatcatch 02-24-14 10:11 PM

To me, it looks like your sit bones have created the dreaded 'ridge' that many Brooks fall symptom to when worn in. As I understand, instead of deforming and supporting your entire....arse....the saddle has permanently deformed, which puts much more pressure on the insides of the sit-bones and can cause pain. Is it the insides of your sit-bones that becomes painful? If this is the case, I think I've heard that you can soak your brooks in water :cry::cry::cry: (I know this will make some people whine), place a flat object on top (like a brick), and let dry. Re-tension after FULLY DRY(do not tension a wet brooks) and re-apply proofide. This might just bring back an expensive saddle that might otherwise go to the bin.

IAMAMRA 02-25-14 03:48 AM

Seems like a defect to me personally.

jazzgeek79 02-25-14 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handsthatcatch (Post 16524336)
To me, it looks like your sit bones have created the dreaded 'ridge' that many Brooks fall symptom to when worn in. As I understand, instead of deforming and supporting your entire....arse....the saddle has permanently deformed, which puts much more pressure on the insides of the sit-bones and can cause pain. Is it the insides of your sit-bones that becomes painful? If this is the case, I think I've heard that you can soak your brooks in water :cry::cry::cry: (I know this will make some people whine), place a flat object on top (like a brick), and let dry. Re-tension after FULLY DRY(do not tension a wet brooks) and re-apply proofide. This might just bring back an expensive saddle that might otherwise go to the bin.

I may go this route.

Cyril 02-25-14 07:12 AM

Or loosen the tension bolt a quarter turn and tighten the lacing a bit.

indyfabz 02-25-14 08:38 AM

Like a fish, when a saddle goes belly up, that usually means it's dead.

cyccommute 02-25-14 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhchdh (Post 16523969)
Are the rivets actualy broken ? Are they loose ? That looks like the normal mushrooming that results from setting the rivets. As has been said above you may need to adjust the tension bolt at the nose of the saddle.

+1. That looks normal for a pounded rivet. You can find a few pictures of the underside of a Brooks on-line and they all look very similar to your rivets.

As for the sagging, did you "pretreat" your saddle before use to "soften" it? That could lead to the kind of deformation that you are seeing in such a short time frame.

jazzgeek79 02-25-14 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 16525204)

As for the sagging, did you "pretreat" your saddle before use to "soften" it? That could lead to the kind of deformation that you are seeing in such a short time frame.

I did apply proofide a lot the first few weeks. I think this was a mistake, and I probably just need to chalk this one up to learning. I'm wondering if I should try a brooks pro, b-17 special, or perhaps even a Berthoud for a saddle with thicker leather. Or would I be ok with a standard b-17 and just not using much if any proofide. Do you folks think the thicker leather can make that much difference at 300+? My B-17 did have a comfortable period, but I can't afford a new b-17 every year or two. I'm also considering non leather saddles including the c-17.

pdlamb 02-25-14 12:36 PM

I'd try adding a bit of tension to the saddle before anything else. At 320, you can forget all the advice skinny people give about never tensioning a Brooks. Also, consider a saddle cover (Aardvark or similar) for rain or if/when you sweat so much that sweat ends up puddling on the saddle.

handsthatcatch 02-25-14 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 (Post 16525511)
I did apply proofide a lot the first few weeks. I think this was a mistake, and I probably just need to chalk this one up to learning. I'm wondering if I should try a brooks pro, b-17 special, or perhaps even a Berthoud for a saddle with thicker leather. Or would I be ok with a standard b-17 and just not using much if any proofide. Do you folks think the thicker leather can make that much difference at 300+? My B-17 did have a comfortable period, but I can't afford a new b-17 every year or two. I'm also considering non leather saddles including the c-17.

Some things to think about in regards to different saddles- Your sit-bones must be supported by the entire saddle. The racier the saddle(generally), the less width it will have in the rear. I would stay away from saddles like the C-17 and the Professional. Think about it this way- Many 200-250lb men have toured on B-17's for years without problem, why can't a 300lb man ride 1500 miles over the course of a year on one? Most would consider that mileage 'just broken in'. Try to revive this one. If you can't, and don't want to spend a lot of money, try the Velo Orange Model 3. They are made with a pretty firm leather and are coated underneath with a type of webbing that helps the saddle not sag, they come pre-laced, and you can find 'em pretty cheap. At least it will answer your question whether or not a leather saddle will work for you.

As a side note, your photo made me super-nostalgic for my old Schwinn Voyager. Hang on to that frame as long as you can!!!

jazzgeek79 02-25-14 01:01 PM

Thanks Hands. I have re laced the saddle, and did my first turn of the tention bolt. I'm sure I'll add more but I'm gonna take it slow. As far as width, I'd say my only small part is my but. Seriously I have no a$$. And as far as weight goes that won't affect sit bone spacing. Having said that I have looked at the Model 3 and would consider that saddle as well, for all the reason's you stated. And I love the Voyager. It is a great bike, with a very smooth ride.

cyclist2000 02-26-14 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 (Post 16525511)
I did apply proofide a lot the first few weeks..

How much is a lot? I don't ride a B-17, I has two bikes with Brooks Team Pro and haven't seen anything like that and I used proof hide on it once a year and normally right before I go on a tour and that saddle has a few thousand miles on it.

jazzgeek79 02-27-14 07:42 AM

Probably twice a week the first month. I can't exactly remember, but it was something like that. I just remember a few months a ago I was researching lacing because the saddle was getting uncomfortable, and reading several posts stating that leather saddles should be treated approximately once a year, and not to do anything special to break them in and then thinking 'uh oh'.

I think at the time the leather seemed so tough and hard it seemed impossible that it would form to my shape without help. I know better now. After tightening the laces and increasing tension from the bolt, the saddle feels better. I'm gonna tighten it a bit today and ride for 15-20 Miles. If the shape holds up or improves with increased tension, which frankly I'm skeptical of, I'll use the saddle for a while longer. If it quickly reverts then it is time to choose a new saddle. While I recognize my role in what happened, if I get a new b-17 it will be a special, and I will by a cover. If I go the VO model 3, route which is a LOT cheaper than a b-17 special, I would still go with a cover for rainy days,

as a side note, I am about finished setting up a 90's steel mountain bike as my new commuter. It features schwalbe kojak 26x2.0 tires and trekking bars as my commuting upgrades to the cheap bike. That bike needs a news saddle as well, since it has a really uncomfortable no name saddle currently. I am thinking about getting the VO micro fiber touring saddle for this bike. I don't ever really ride more than 10 Miles at a time on this bike, and often less. If anyone had another good, non leather, <~$80 saddle suggestion for a bars even with saddle height set up to ride on pavement and brick/cobblestones I'm open to ideas.

Erwin8r 02-27-14 01:02 PM

Not to totally derail your thread, but have you considered the Selle Anatomic Titanico? They make one for us big fella's, have great customer service, and those that have them seem to love them (myself included). They have the cut-out and are very well made....

jazzgeek79 02-27-14 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erwin8r (Post 16532562)
Not to totally derail your thread, but have you considered the Selle Anatomic Titanico? They make one for us big fella's, have great customer service, and those that have them seem to love them (myself included). They have the cut-out and are very well made....

There is nothing I'd like more than to have the experience with a saddle that satisfied Anatomica customers report. However the problem I am having with my Brooks used to be a big issue for Anatomica customers. I know that they have made attempts to address this but I still have concerns. Selle Anatomica's own sight seems to indicate recommended weights for various models http://www.selleanatomica.com/produc...le-comparison/. Based on this it would seem that if you are over 250 they don't recommend any of the cut out models, and even the NSX doesn't seem to be rated for over 280. Erwin may I ask your weight? I'd love to hear from some 300lb or 300+ Clyde's who are successfully using an Anatomica before I make the investment. If I knew that that saddle could handle my weight I'd definitely give it a shot based on the reports of its comfort.

Erwin8r 03-01-14 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 (Post 16533206)
There is nothing I'd like more than to have the experience with a saddle that satisfied Anatomica customers report. However the problem I am having with my Brooks used to be a big issue for Anatomica customers. I know that they have made attempts to address this but I still have concerns. Selle Anatomica's own sight seems to indicate recommended weights for various models http://www.selleanatomica.com/produc...le-comparison/. Based on this it would seem that if you are over 250 they don't recommend any of the cut out models, and even the NSX doesn't seem to be rated for over 280. Erwin may I ask your weight? I'd love to hear from some 300lb or 300+ Clyde's who are successfully using an Anatomica before I make the investment. If I knew that that saddle could handle my weight I'd definitely give it a shot based on the reports of its comfort.

Hmmm. .. hadn't thought of that. Good points. I was 254 at my heaviest, and am 235 now.

jazzgeek79 03-01-14 09:36 AM

I have a personal fitness goal to reach 250. Guess what I'm gonna get myself if I make it?

cyclist2000 03-01-14 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 (Post 16531607)
Probably twice a week the first month. I can't exactly remember, but it was something like that. I just remember a few months a ago I was researching lacing because the saddle was getting uncomfortable, and reading several posts stating that leather saddles should be treated approximately once a year, and not to do anything special to break them in and then thinking 'uh oh'.

I think at the time the leather seemed so tough and hard it seemed impossible that it would form to my shape without help. I know better now. After tightening the laces and increasing tension from the bolt, the saddle feels better. I'm gonna tighten it a bit today and ride for 15-20 Miles. If the shape holds up or improves with increased tension, which frankly I'm skeptical of, I'll use the saddle for a while longer. If it quickly reverts then it is time to choose a new saddle. While I recognize my role in what happened, if I get a new b-17 it will be a special, and I will by a cover. If I go the VO model 3, route which is a LOT cheaper than a b-17 special, I would still go with a cover for rainy days,

I think the best way to break-in a brooks saddle is to just ride it. Proofhide is used to protect the saddle. I normally break-in the saddle on my trainer and on training rides. I put about 600 miles on the saddle in 20 mile rides, prior to my tour with it. I like the Brooks Pro's they feel more like a Concor saddle (these are from the 80's) and it has a bit thicker leather than the B-17.

fietsbob 03-02-14 01:24 PM

2nd photo shows the machine set rivet,

as a package the more select thicker leathers went with the higher priced saddles which featured hand set copper rivets..

so even in the B17 a range of qualities/costs, exist ..


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