Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-05-14, 04:15 AM   #1
OneLessFixie
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OneLessFixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: The Great Pacific NW
Bikes:
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keeping knees in

When I was out on my last ride, a very kindhearted cyclist pulled up next to me and explained that my knees were splaying outward as I was pedalling and that I should focus on keeping them in, parallel to the top tube, so as to get my quads into the game, among other things. So I did on the way home and noticed that it was easier to maintain higher cadences (90+ RPM) in lower gears. I also noticed that the pain in the outside of my feet, which has bedevilled me since day one, got a lot better.

Two questions:

1. Has anybody else experienced this or heard of this?

2. Would some kind of a shoe mod (cleat wedges, etc.) help with keeping my knees in? If so, is this something I can do myself, or should I go back to my excellent PT fitter ($$$)?

Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.
OneLessFixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 08:07 AM   #2
spdracr39
Senior Member
 
spdracr39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Cabot, Arkansas
Bikes: Lynskey Twisted Helix Di2 Ti, 1987 Orbea steel single speed/fixie, Orbea Avant M30, Trek Fuel EX9.8 29, Trek Madone 5 series, Specialized Epic Carbon Comp 29er, Trek 7.1F
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I have this problem also when i get tired. I did turn the toes of my shoes inward just a tad because my knees were hurting on longer rides and it helped that but I don't think it helped in keeping my knees in. I think it is more like remembering not to lock your elbows, just fix it when you catch it and eventually muscle memory will take over.
spdracr39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 08:19 AM   #3
CommuteCommando
Senior Member
 
CommuteCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Southern CaliFORNIA.
Bikes: KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
Posts: 3,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have gotten this. These people are well intentioned, and offer advice like getting the bike fit. I am satisfied with the "quick fit" I get from my LBS guy. He's pretty good. I have made minor adjustments to get it dialed in. When you have excess belly in the way you need a little clearance. I tell them this and it usually shuts them up.
CommuteCommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 08:27 AM   #4
1speeder
Senior Member
 
1speeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oakland, CA
Bikes: 2005 Bianchi Freccia Celeste, 2006 Salsa Dos Niner, 2011 Niner Jet 9, 2012 Marin Team CXR 29er, 2013 Rocky Mountain 950 Element, 2013 Jamis Coda Comp, 1993 Santana Rio, 1996 Santana Sovereign
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I first got into cycling, I had to keep reminding myself to keep my knees in, now it is just automatic.

Mike
1speeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 09:22 AM   #5
Black wallnut 
Senior Member
 
Black wallnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ellensburg,WA
Bikes: Schwinn Broadway, Specialized Secteur Sport(crashed) Spec. Roubaix Sport, Spec. Crux
Posts: 2,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Has anything changed since your "PT" fit? Did you fitter have you ride a trainer long enough to discover that you ride knees out? I do not think that adding wedge at the cleat will move your knee in but I may be wrong. My understanding is that wedges are used to find the ideal line-up of bones through the leg and foot. I think keeping the knees in takes practice and concentration and our over sized abdomens get in the way of that. You might give your fitter a call and ask. Perhaps this is where having a BG fit is better as it is easy to access a fitter at bike shop just by going in.
__________________
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
Black wallnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 11:49 AM   #6
WonderMonkey
Senior Member
 
WonderMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vandalia OH
Bikes: 2011 Cannondale Quick 5, 2014 Raleigh Revenio 2.0
Posts: 2,923
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When looking for mechanical efficiency keeping the knees in is generally better. You can help yourself do this by trying to apply pedaling pressure on the inside of your foot (usually ball of big toe) versus the outside.

HOWEVER...... all the knees in/out, heels in/out ..... all that stuff is fine but make sure as you move to more efficient spin that you are not damaging your knees. Some people have a natural movement/path that their bodies go in and while you can try to improve some end up hurting themselves.

Just be careful. Get fitted, listen to advice, etc. but above all listen to your body. Learn the difference between being sort because you are doing something different and pain from your body not wanting to move a certain way.
WonderMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-14, 12:11 PM   #7
longbeachgary
Senior Member
 
longbeachgary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Beautiful Long Beach California
Bikes: Eddy Merckx Sallanches 64 (2); Eddy Merckx MXL; 2012 CAAD10; 2013 Cannondale CAAD10 DI2, The Black Mambo
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
With me it's just my right knee and it's not so much a matter of foot position but a matter of being lazy.
longbeachgary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 07:06 AM   #8
FrenchFit 
The Left Coast, USA
 
FrenchFit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 3,032
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Knees out: classic beach cruiser pedalin' ! Gotta show off the package !

Now you'll remember.
FrenchFit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 07:10 AM   #9
ill.clyde
Senior Member
 
ill.clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Green Bay
Bikes: 2012 Kona Jake, 2009 Trek 1.2, 1997 Trek 6700
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Years ago, while watching the Tour I noticed that their knees were "in" and since then it's something I'm consciously aware of.
ill.clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 07:47 AM   #10
Null66
Senior Member
 
Null66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Garner, NC 27529
Bikes: Built up DT, 2007 Fuji tourer (donor bike, RIP), 1995 1220 Trek
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"Proper' form is all in a line or rather a plane...

Hip, knee and foot all travel in same plane through full rotation.

It is easier on the joints if they are subjected to less torsional (twisting) force as they go through the pedal stroke. It is also easier to develop a smooth high cadence when in line.

Muscle imbalances can make other paths seem more comfortable. It can also just be habit.

I have had knee surgery on right knee that was not too successful. I sometimes intentionally use other alignments if my knee is hurting or otherwise acting up. I choose Crank Brothers clip-less to allow for this.
Null66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 08:11 AM   #11
CommuteCommando
Senior Member
 
CommuteCommando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Southern CaliFORNIA.
Bikes: KHS Alite 500, Trek 7.2 FX , Masi Partenza, Masi Fixed Special, Masi Cran Criterium
Posts: 3,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
Knees out: classic beach cruiser pedalin' ! Gotta show off the package !

Now you'll remember.
Don't forget to pedal on your arch, and wear flip-flops.
CommuteCommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 09:28 AM   #12
bbeasley 
Cat 5 field stuffer
 
bbeasley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hammond, La
Bikes: Wabi Lightning RE, Wabi Classic
Posts: 1,420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have this problem also. It's part belly, part habit, and part wide hips. On the advice of a Pro fitter I use Knee Saver's pedal extenders, these increase the Q measurement. The habit part is just a function of developing muscle memory. The belly, well that's another issue
bbeasley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 12:32 PM   #13
txags92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have seen a few folks whose problem was that their seat was too low. That caused their legs to come up too high at the top of their stroke and compress into their bellies. They would rotate the knees out to get away from that compression. Check to see if you could raise the seat a bit comfortably, and it might make it easier to keep your knees in. Also, the pain in the side of your foot may come from resting against the edge of the play in your cleats if you are using clipless pedals. Rotating your knees back in may have taken your foot away from resting on the edge of the play, eliminating the pressure on that side of your foot.

Last edited by txags92; 04-07-14 at 12:51 PM.
txags92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 01:57 PM   #14
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
I've seen lots of ppl with their knees out but I would never say anything. glad you are comfortable with your knees in more.
rumrunn6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-14, 05:44 PM   #15
ChuckD6421 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: 2013 Trek Domane 5.2; 1986 Cannondale R800
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
As others have posted, watch the pros. We're not pros but we should certainly consider why in all cases the pros ride with their knees in.
I was born slightly pigeon toed. The best cycling shoes I ever owned were a couple pairs of Marresi's because there was a wedge molded into the sole that tipped my foot inward effectively countering my tendency to splay my knees. The only way to comfortably peddle was by mentally focusing on a line of force running down from my hip through my knee, inner ankle and into my big toe.

Now that I've graduated from toe clips and retired the Marresi's I use something called "The Wedge" from Bike Fit Systems with the full stack of shims between my cleat and sole, thick sides outboard (requiring a longer cleat screw).

Raising your seat slightly will also help for us full-figured bikers (first-hand knowledge) but be aware how much hip-rocking you incur. Spinning at a high cadence will give that away. The hips shouldn't rock very much.
ChuckD6421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:36 AM.