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  1. #1
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    Road wheel choice!

    Hi everyone, I am looking to upgrade my wheels, I am running my Shimano R500 with no issue but for how long? I've look for 3 options; Tokken c22ah, Campagnolo Sirrocco 35 and costum builds (but I would prefer normal wheel over custom).

    On the me side, I am 6 foot and 250lbs but aiming to 220lbs...

    What would be the better option (I am open for other wheels)...

    Thanks

    Jeff

  2. #2
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    Ride what you have and drop the 30 lbs before you look for new wheels.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
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  3. #3
    Nigel nfmisso's Avatar
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    Custom - the factory stuff is not very good.

    I build my own, if you are unwilling to do so; talk to Peter White or one of his competitors.
    Nigel
    Mechanical Design Engineer

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    I'm on my second pair of Ksyriums, SL and Equipe, from 240lb to 215lb, and I love 'em. Always stiff, always durable. Just today, during a criterium, I had another rider put her front tire right into my spokes a couple of times as we set up for position into a turn at perhaps 22-24mph. Ksyrium Equipes remained true and solid.

    In general, I'm a proponent of straight pull hubs/spokes for heavier riders, especially aggressive ones, because they're generally stiffer and stronger. Same goes for aero bladed spokes. Bladed straight pull is my first choice in factory built wheels, but I might trust J bend bladed in a custom build from a reputable hand-builder if they had something really cool. In general though, unless you just want a certain hub or something, I think there's little to be gained from a custom build for the expense.
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

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    Quote Originally Posted by nfmisso View Post
    talk to Peter White..
    ... if you want a load of dogmatic horse-puckey.

    He's just a curmudgeonly old-timer who builds wheels perfectly suited to those with few demands. They work. Whoopee.
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
    ... if you want a load of dogmatic horse-puckey.

    He's just a curmudgeonly old-timer who builds wheels perfectly suited to those with few demands. They work. Whoopee.
    Um, Chaadster,

    Do you realize that Peter has also provided his same attention to details in building deep profile carbon wheels for clydesdale RAAM competitors?

    Sure, he has a little rant on his web page about what he believes the average rider should be on for daily riding, but, he's not adverse to taking anyone's money and providing an excellent product by most folks account, if you know what you want and are willing to accept the compromises.

    In response to the OP,

    My answer would depend on what you view as the shortcomings of your current wheels, what areas you would like to improve on with any new wheels and what compromises you're willing to accept.

    If your current wheels aren't giving you any issues there's probably not a lot of case to replace them. Other than keeping them in good shape for use in reselling the bike if that is in your short term plans. Otherwise, make sure they are properly tensioned and equalized and ride them until they start to show signs of fatigue.

    If you're still interested in getting some new wheels, just because. As a builder of my own wheels, I tend to lean toward the custom built option, where you can specificy an ideal balance of your priorities and willingness to compromise.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  7. #7
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    your not fat enough to need anything too "special" yet --- you may feel like a moose, but i personally weigh more and have ran stock Mavic Cosmos and Shimano RS-10's for a few years now (cheap component wheels)

    My local USAC dip****s won't let me compete with the citizens or clydes as i used to hold a UCI license in track -- so i torture cheap wheels (and get lapped on occasion, if i dont drop out) in the local cat 1/2/3 crit circuit--- i wont sing the praises of a cheap wheelset, but will attest that if your under 3 bills - they will hold up as long as your not an idiot who runs over stuff willy nilly

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Um, Chaadster,

    Do you realize that Peter has also provided his same attention to details in building deep profile carbon wheels for clydesdale RAAM competitors?

    Sure, he has a little rant on his web page about what he believes the average rider should be on for daily riding, but, he's not adverse to taking anyone's money and providing an excellent product by most folks account, if you know what you want and are willing to accept the compromises.
    Well, that's not what he says, and I'm not the only one unimpressed with PW's attitude or wheels. He's a retro-grouch. Yeah, sure, the wheels work and don't break; big deal. There's so much more available in wheels out there in addition to simply not breaking.
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfjk View Post
    Hi everyone, I am looking to upgrade my wheels, I am running my Shimano R500 with no issue but for how long? I've look for 3 options; Tokken c22ah, Campagnolo Sirrocco 35 and costum builds (but I would prefer normal wheel over custom).

    On the me side, I am 6 foot and 250lbs but aiming to 220lbs...

    What would be the better option (I am open for other wheels)...

    Thanks

    Jeff
    O.K. I've had a look at the two wheels you mention:

    The Tokkens are a sub 1500 gram pair using 390gram rims. At least they're 32 spoke and Tokken even include "extra spokes and nipples", because you may need them. They would probably make a reasonable and light event day wheel. But, I think there are better event day wheels available and I personally wouldn't consider them as a "training" wheel. I'm also somewhat doubtful that those wheels actually weight less than 1500, but only a pair on a scale can tell us that.

    The Campy Sirroccos use their wacky 2:1 lacing pattern and only 21 rear spokes while retaining normal j-bend connections and using alloy nipples. And they still end up weighing 1750 grams. I have to score these a "not". You could build up really durable hand builts that would weight no more than that. Or, some lighter event day wheels that are actually light (sub 1500).

    jfjk, what exactly do you require from these new wheels? Are they to be day to day training wheels? Or, wheels that only come off the wall for special days?

    If the former, there is no shortage of decent rims that will build up into a 1700-2000gram pair while still using the ever durable shimano hubs, with their steel freehub assembly, and brass nipples.

    But, if that is the case, just get your R500s tensioned and equalized and ride them until they start giving out.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  10. #10
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    I want wheels for the day to day training, the problem with the hand made wheel is that there is to many options... I think I will keep my wheel until THEY decide to give on me! lol

    The reason why I wanted to replace my wheel is mainly to have a set with more acceleration and to update the look!

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfjk View Post
    I want wheels for the day to day training, the problem with the hand made wheel is that there is to many options... I think I will keep my wheel until THEY decide to give on me! lol

    The reason why I wanted to replace my wheel is mainly to have a set with more acceleration and to update the look!

    Thanks
    "Acceleration" is all up to "YOU". The fastest track sprinters in the world like Sir Chris Hoy have been known to train on 565gram 30mm deep alloy rims like Velocity Deep Vs and DT Swiss 585s laced to the track version of Dura Ace hubs.

    If you're going to accellerate a "BIG" mass it's going to take equally "BIG " power, which requires a stiff and strong wheel to transmit that power to the ground without side flex, tire rub on chainstays and the resultant loss in efficiency. Not, a light weight climbing wheel. The lighter wheels may "feel" different. But, their performance won't be noticably different unless used by an already light rider to climb considerable vertical height.

    As for looks? Well, that beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder. I had new found appreciation for the beauty of my 2000gram DTSwiss 585 wheels when a younger rider on a group ride asked, in a completely winded gasp, "are those Zipp wheels you're using?" ;-)
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    "Acceleration" is all up to "YOU". The fastest track sprinters in the world like Sir Chris Hoy have been known to train on 565gram 30mm deep alloy rims like Velocity Deep Vs and DT Swiss 585s laced to the track version of Dura Ace hubs.

    If you're going to accellerate a "BIG" mass it's going to take equally "BIG " power, which requires a stiff and strong wheel to transmit that power to the ground without side flex, tire rub on chainstays and the resultant loss in efficiency. Not, a light weight climbing wheel. The lighter wheels may "feel" different. But, their performance won't be noticably different unless used by an already light rider to climb considerable vertical height.

    As for looks? Well, that beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder. I had new found appreciation for the beauty of my 2000gram DTSwiss 585 wheels when a younger rider on a group ride asked, in a completely winded gasp, "are those Zipp wheels you're using?" ;-)
    Exactly. At 250 lbs and headed for 220, who cares about 4-5 ounces of wheel weight one way or the other.

    I love DT Swiss RR 585s for every-day training wheels, even though I think they're total overkill for a front wheel. And now I'd probably recommend a wider rim such as a Kinlin XC279 or Pacenti SL23, especially for a 250 lb rider.

    Lace 'em 28 or 32 up front, maybe even radial, and 32 or 36 3x on the back with double-butted DT Swiss Competition spokes to a set of 105 hubs and be done with wheels for a good long while.

    Note the poster who said he's on his second pair of Ksyriums. You won't be on your second pair of 105s/RR585s or similar for about another 30 years of 100 miles a week or more.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    Note the poster who said he's on his second pair of Ksyriums. You won't be on your second pair of 105s/RR585s or similar for about another 30 years of 100 miles a week or more.
    I'm on my second set because the first were, and remain, sweet, not because they failed, which they haven't (at 10+yrs)
    Chaad--'95 DeKerf Team SL, '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '05 Novara Buzz, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '06 Mountain Cycle Rumble, '09 Dahon Mariner D7, '12 Mercier Nano, '12 Breezer Venturi

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    O.K. I've had a look at the two wheels you mention:

    The Tokkens are a sub 1500 gram pair using 390gram rims.
    You do NOT want to ride 400 gram alloy rims as a Clydestale.

    I put a bend in my surviving Mavic Reflex Clincher front (with over 10 years on it) not long after resuming riding on it at over 200 pounds.

    At 170 pounds 400 gram rims are fine up front but bend too easily in back.

    At 150 pounds they're pretty bullet proof.
    Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-15-14 at 03:27 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member daviddavieboy's Avatar
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    a couple of days ago I saw a set of ultegra with cxp-14 rims on Montreal Kijiji. check them out, just what u are looking for.

  16. #16
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    I am 6' 3" at 255. I use Mavic cxp-33 with 36 spokes on the rear and 32 on the front. Got the from Colorado cyclists. I have ultegra hubs, brass nipples, heavy duty spokes. With regular maintenance they have been awesome.

  17. #17
    Big N Slow
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    I've seen a lot of people recommend these and the price is really good for hand built. I'm planning on replacing the Shimano RS10's that came on my CAAD with them when they give up and I hover around 270lbs. They're still straight and true though after 500 miles and their only 16F/20R, so I figure I should have no problems with the Williams even if the're only rated at 240.

    Williams
    System 30 $569
    240LB MAX
    Hand built
    Claimed bombproof

    and you get a free hat in case your follically challenged

    Williams System 30 (28/32) Alloy Clincher Wheelset
    Last edited by Lean back; 04-16-14 at 07:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Rudz's Avatar
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    Chris Murray built me some great wheels, using velocity deep V rims and 105 hubs with DT Swiss spokes and brass nipples. Great guy, superior helpful and he's a BF member.

    Just got the wheels so I can't attest to the durability but they look nice as hell and didn't cost as much as Peter Whites wheels.
    Giant Rapid 3- COMMUTERIZED *IBERA*Nashbar*Tiagra*105*Velocity*Selle SMP*Gatorskin
    Every commute is a race. I do victory laps in my driveway

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean back View Post
    I've seen a lot of people recommend these and the price is really good for hand built. I'm planning on replacing the Shimano RS10's that came on my CAAD with them when they give up and I hover around 270lbs. They're still straight and true though after 500 miles and their only 16F/20R, so I figure I should have no problems with the Williams even if the're only rated at 240.

    Williams
    System 30 $569
    240LB MAX
    Hand built
    Claimed bombproof

    and you get a free hat in case your follically challenged

    Williams System 30 (28/32) Alloy Clincher Wheelset
    Hi Leanback,

    Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm saying it with one of those joking grins on my ugly mug.

    500 Miles?

    Peesha, they're not even dirty yet.

    This is one of the challenges we face on open forums boards like Bikeforums. At my current weekly average, 500 miles is less an 4 weeks use. That's hardly enough to offer any sort of indication about a wheels long term durability. Even the the wheels we generally consider unsuitable for clydes should be capable of delivering 5,000+ miles. Some might go 10,000miles. But, the truely clyde worthy wheels that a lot of us talk about are going for 20,000+ miles or until the brake track wears out. Which ever comes first depending on your location and how much riding you do in bad weather, without going out of true or breaking a spoke. That's durable.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudz View Post
    Chris Murray built me some great wheels, using velocity deep V rims and 105 hubs with DT Swiss spokes and brass nipples. Great guy, superior helpful and he's a BF member.

    Just got the wheels so I can't attest to the durability but they look nice as hell and didn't cost as much as Peter Whites wheels.
    Absolutely nothing wrong with Deep Vs, 105s and brass nipples. That's been the preferred, clyde approved, value leader for a long time. If Chris has done a decent job of stress relieving and tension equalizing them, they should be good for a very long time.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legage View Post
    I am 6' 3" at 255. I use Mavic cxp-33 with 36 spokes on the rear and 32 on the front. Got the from Colorado cyclists. I have ultegra hubs, brass nipples, heavy duty spokes. With regular maintenance they have been awesome.
    Same set up also from CC here but 260 lbs and have been straight and true. That is a stout wheelset and fairly reasonably priced.

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  23. #23
    Senior Member
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    Thanks Lenny, I might check them out next time I need wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny866 View Post
    Here are some options. I purchased wheels from Velomine and have been happy.
    I'll second my total satisfaction with my Velomine wheels that I bought last August. Just crossed 5,000 miles and rode them at 290, all the way down to 260. Mostly commuter miles on chip seal and they've been great.

  25. #25
    Big N Slow
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Hi Leanback,

    Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm saying it with one of those joking grins on my ugly mug.

    500 Miles?

    Peesha, they're not even dirty yet.

    This is one of the challenges we face on open forums boards like Bikeforums. At my current weekly average, 500 miles is less an 4 weeks use. That's hardly enough to offer any sort of indication about a wheels long term durability. Even the the wheels we generally consider unsuitable for clydes should be capable of delivering 5,000+ miles. Some might go 10,000miles. But, the truely clyde worthy wheels that a lot of us talk about are going for 20,000+ miles or until the brake track wears out. Which ever comes first depending on your location and how much riding you do in bad weather, without going out of true or breaking a spoke. That's durable.
    Big Fred I take no offense. I can only hope the RS10's last several thousand miles. I understand that this is the Clyde forum and hence the wheels being discussed should be Clyde worthy. I'll only recommend tandem wheels from now on if anyone asks.

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