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  1. #1
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    How not to be fat: foreget calories-in, calories-out - but do blame Coke

    This won't be news to anyone who has followed the science for the past 10 years, but
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/op...hy.html?src=me

    ..factors in the environment have triggered fat cells in our bodies to take in and store excessive amounts of glucose and other calorie-rich compounds. Since fewer calories are available to fuel metabolism, the brain tells the body to increase calorie intake (we feel hungry) and save energy (our metabolism slows down). Eating more solves this problem temporarily but also accelerates weight gain. Cutting calories reverses the weight gain for a short while, making us think we have control over our body weight, but predictably increases hunger and slows metabolism even more.

    ..In a sense, the conventional view of obesity as a problem of calorie balance is like conceptualizing fever as a problem of heat balance; technically not wrong, but not very helpful, because it ignores the apparent underlying biological driver of weight gain.

    ..As it turns out, many biological factors affect the storage of calories in fat cells, including genetics, levels of physical activity, sleep and stress. But one has an indisputably dominant role: the hormone insulin. We know that excess insulin treatment for diabetes causes weight gain, and insulin deficiency causes weight loss. And of everything we eat, highly refined and rapidly digestible carbohydrates produce the most insulin.

    By this way of thinking, the increasing amount and processing of carbohydrates in the American diet has increased insulin levels, put fat cells into storage overdrive and elicited obesity-promoting biological responses in a large number of people.
    I should add that the evidence is that artificial sweeteners have an even worse effect than sugar. And that "natural" sugar in juice is still sugar.

  2. #2
    Cat 5 field stuffer bbeasley's Avatar
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    From the same article, another nail in the low fat diet coffin:

    Fat has about twice the calories of carbohydrates, but low-fat diets are the least effective of comparable interventions, according to several analyses, including one presented at a meeting of the American Heart Association this year.

  3. #3
    Senior Member WebFootFreak's Avatar
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    From a diabetic standpoint, I mistakenly thought changing from Mt Dew, to Diet Dew would make a difference in both caloric intake and sugar intake... When I completely cut sodas out of my diet (I have had a handfull of them over the last year as a rare treat), I started going hypoglycemic due to the level of meds I was on (non-insulin). That one change allowed my Dr. to cut my meds in half.
    Due to recurring injury, I no longer have a yearly goal. How far I go is how far I go.
    As of 11/5 - Bike: 694.3mi Walk/Run: 174.5mi Weight 256... and holding...

  4. #4
    Super Moderator making's Avatar
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    Diet Dew raised your blood sugar? Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by WebFootFreak View Post
    From a diabetic standpoint, I mistakenly thought changing from Mt Dew, to Diet Dew would make a difference in both caloric intake and sugar intake... When I completely cut sodas out of my diet (I have had a handfull of them over the last year as a rare treat), I started going hypoglycemic due to the level of meds I was on (non-insulin). That one change allowed my Dr. to cut my meds in half.
    Good Night Chesty, Wherever You Are

  5. #5
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFootFreak View Post
    From a diabetic standpoint, I mistakenly thought changing from Mt Dew, to Diet Dew would make a difference in both caloric intake and sugar intake... When I completely cut sodas out of my diet (I have had a handfull of them over the last year as a rare treat), I started going hypoglycemic due to the level of meds I was on (non-insulin). That one change allowed my Dr. to cut my meds in half.
    The science here is complex and opinions more varied still, but this is worth reading:

    Splenda, Sucralose Artificial Sweetener, Could Affect Body's Insulin Response

    The bottom line is that sweenteners have to be considered a very serious risk factor!

  6. #6
    Senior Member WebFootFreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Diet Dew raised your blood sugar? Interesting.
    Exactly. I always thought that diet sodas (pops, cokes... depending on your geographical linguistic inclination ) wouldn't affect that. However, I had changed my diet 2 months before with minor blood sugar changes. When I dropped sodas, I started crashing about a week later.
    Due to recurring injury, I no longer have a yearly goal. How far I go is how far I go.
    As of 11/5 - Bike: 694.3mi Walk/Run: 174.5mi Weight 256... and holding...

  7. #7
    Super Moderator making's Avatar
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    I drink lots and lots of diet cokes. I work out a lot, ride a lot etc and still gain weitght. My diet is pretty good but I do drink beer. I might quit the diet cokes for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by WebFootFreak View Post
    Exactly. I always thought that diet sodas (pops, cokes... depending on your geographical linguistic inclination ) wouldn't affect that. However, I had changed my diet 2 months before with minor blood sugar changes. When I dropped sodas, I started crashing about a week later.
    Good Night Chesty, Wherever You Are

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ray Dockrey's Avatar
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    I am Type II diabetic. I have lost 85 pounds and I am off all my diabetic meds. I still drink diet pop. It is the one thing I won't give up yet. For me it is Diet Coke and Coke Zero. My blood sugar runs in the mid 80's to low 90's. I believe that the most important thing is to find what works best for you and your body. To blame things on one particular thing is silly.

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    Just personal experience here, but calorie balance for me was very accurate. The goal was to lose 1lb per week over 20 weeks and get back to racing weight. ACCURATE calories in and calories out, recording everything I ate and calories burnt during exercise (power meter), with an estimate for daily metabolism. At the end of 20 weeks, lost exactly 20 lbs., did a worksheet of theoretical weight loss by calories in and out and it was almost exactly as actual.

    Have to admit though, I eat healthy, limit sugar intake and careful what I use for carbohydrates.

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    No one is forcing you to drink Coke, Diet Coke, Mt. Dew, etc. Don't blame Coke (or whatever) if consuming it is why you are fat. Blame yourself for drinking it. The product is not the cause. Consuming it is.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ursa Minor's Avatar
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    I worked at the Naval Weapons Center China Lake for many years. One day I asked a coworker what he wanted to be doing when the bombs dropped. He said I want to be sitting at ground zero drinking a diet coke.

    Charlie
    Grimly determined to have fun.

  12. #12
    Senior Member WebFootFreak's Avatar
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    Look. All I can say is what happened to me. When I dropped sodas from my diet, I crashed. It's very possible there was a tie-in between the meds (I was on 2 different ones) and the soda. It could possibly have been another factor, although that was the only dietary change I made at that time.
    Due to recurring injury, I no longer have a yearly goal. How far I go is how far I go.
    As of 11/5 - Bike: 694.3mi Walk/Run: 174.5mi Weight 256... and holding...

  13. #13
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
    No one is forcing you to drink Coke, Diet Coke, Mt. Dew, etc. Don't blame Coke (or whatever) if consuming it is why you are fat. Blame yourself for drinking it. The product is not the cause. Consuming it is.
    This would be a fair and intelligent thing to say if everyone knew that these drinks have an impact far beyond the calories contained. But they don't! And the makers obscure this. You can only blame people for the consequences of their actions when they have knowledge of what those consequences will be. (And I suspect that you in fact didn't read or understand the OP.)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    This would be a fair and intelligent thing to say if everyone knew that these drinks have an impact far beyond the calories contained. But they don't! And the makers obscure this. You can only blame people for the consequences of their actions when they have knowledge of what those consequences will be. (And I suspect that you in fact didn't read or understand the OP.)
    Personally, I don't need to have actual knowledge that smoking can cause conditions other than lung cancer. That's because, for several reasons, common sense tells me that there are likely to be other negative effects being hidden. But everyone is different.

    Enjoy the day.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
    No one is forcing you to drink Coke, Diet Coke, Mt. Dew, etc. Don't blame Coke (or whatever) if consuming it is why you are fat. Blame yourself for drinking it. The product is not the cause. Consuming it is.
    Agreed... there is just no reason to ingest watery chemicals/sugar with no nutritional value.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dm83 View Post
    Agreed... there is just no reason to ingest watery chemicals/sugar with no nutritional value.
    Absolutely, other than enjoyment, which is fine with me if that's what one wants to do. I drink wine. According to some people who have posted in this forum, I am poisoning myself. So be it. I understand the risks and won't blame Paul Mason if my liver swells to the size of a football or I come down with some other condition that I did not know was caused by driking wine.

    Anyone who drinks chemically engineered beverages of that nature thinking that the manufacturers in that bizillion dollar industry are looking after your health and being forthcoming about the potential effects their products can cause is, IMO, making an unwarranted leap of faith. There are just some things that I don't need to be told to appreciate that I am taking a risk.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFootFreak View Post
    From a diabetic standpoint, I mistakenly thought changing from Mt Dew, to Diet Dew would make a difference in both caloric intake and sugar intake... When I completely cut sodas out of my diet (I have had a handfull of them over the last year as a rare treat), I started going hypoglycemic due to the level of meds I was on (non-insulin). That one change allowed my Dr. to cut my meds in half.
    Everything I know about diabetes, based on 35 years as an insulin-dependent diabetic, says that drinking diet soda should have no influence on blood sugar levels. I suspect that there's something else that accounts for the change you're seeing.

    As an example: the consumption of caffeine impairs insulin action. So if you're drinking tons of caffeine and then stop, the insulin you're taking (potentially) becomes more effective, which then drives your blood sugars lower. Subtle changes in exercise levels can also have a big impact on blood sugar, particularly if you're going from completely inactive to event slight amounts of activity.

    FWIW, I've lost 50 pounds while drinking diet soda. I do, however, almost always consume drinks that don't contain caffeine...

  18. #18
    Senior Member Black wallnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    (And I suspect that you in fact didn't read or understand the OP.)
    I suspect you are reaching conclusions not supportable. your thread title is misleading in that if you forget calories in < calories out and just avoid sugar and sugar substitutes you can still be fat. Sure it is more complex than calories in < calories out however if you do not eat less than you burn you will by default not lose weight.


    Mark

  19. #19
    Senior Member WebFootFreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Everything I know about diabetes, based on 35 years as an insulin-dependent diabetic, says that drinking diet soda should have no influence on blood sugar levels. I suspect that there's something else that accounts for the change you're seeing.

    As an example: the consumption of caffeine impairs insulin action. So if you're drinking tons of caffeine and then stop, the insulin you're taking (potentially) becomes more effective, which then drives your blood sugars lower. Subtle changes in exercise levels can also have a big impact on blood sugar, particularly if you're going from completely inactive to event slight amounts of activity.

    FWIW, I've lost 50 pounds while drinking diet soda. I do, however, almost always consume drinks that don't contain caffeine...
    Exactly. It really could have been my own reaction to whatever I was taking. I'm one of those weird people that caffeine calms down. On the other side of the coin, the one time I was given Valium (pre-day surgery) I flipped out... go figure
    Due to recurring injury, I no longer have a yearly goal. How far I go is how far I go.
    As of 11/5 - Bike: 694.3mi Walk/Run: 174.5mi Weight 256... and holding...

  20. #20
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    My wife has now lost close to 60 pounds on a low carb diet that is bereft of grains and any added sugars, her carbs come from vegetables and she keeps those under 30 grams a day but consumes a normal amount of calories from non carbohydrate sources.

    We don't drink any sodas.

    She was quite sure she was flirting with insulin resistance / metabolic syndrome... celiac disease and the lack of a thyroid make her much more prone to this since her hormone balance and insulin response is never quite right.

    Her energy levels are great, her lipid panels are as good as they get and she does not restrict fats in her diet as these take the place of the carbs as an energy source and do not trigger an insulin response.

    The bottom line is that if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic you need to look at your carb intake as this affects insulin responses.

    I eat the same way and this helps me maintain a healthy weight regardless of my activity levels which vary widely because of other health issues.

  21. #21
    Abuse Magnet arex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
    No one is forcing you to drink Coke, Diet Coke, Mt. Dew, etc. Don't blame Coke (or whatever) if consuming it is why you are fat. Blame yourself for drinking it. The product is not the cause. Consuming it is.
    Don't dismiss caffeine addiction.
    "I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create." -- William Blake

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by arex View Post
    Don't dismiss caffeine addiction.
    I drink some in the morning to help get the juices and plumbing flowing. If it amounts to 12 oz. I would be surprised. Maybe I will measure it tonight, but I think my insulated mug is maybe 16 oz. max. I never finish a full mug. Maybe a dozen times a year I will have some after a long, hard ride if I need to drive home or have a function to attend that evening. If I drink coffee in the evening I have a hard time falling alseep. I am lucky that I don't have that addiciton. I also don't have much of a sweet tooth and do not like the taste of chocolate. *gasp* Is there help for me there?

  23. #23
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arex View Post
    Don't dismiss caffeine addiction.
    I never do.



    We don't seem to have problems with this here, my daughter and I both seem to have idiosyncratic reactions to caffeine and she usually has a cup of tea before bed while coffee never bothers me.

  24. #24
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
    Personally, I don't need to have actual knowledge that smoking can cause conditions other than lung cancer.
    This is the least intelligent example you could choose. Because it took decades to establish the link between tobacco and lung cancer, and then another dcade or two to get the message to the general public while the tobacco industry denied it...

  25. #25
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    A while back, I stopped drinking diet drinks and went for the sugary ones. And to be honest, can't tell any difference in weight, etc. Chances are, if you're overweight, it's not the coke, it's a whole lot of little things adding up.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

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