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  1. #26
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    Okay, I'm down to 3 options for around the same budget:

    - H plus Son Archetype on Phil Wood's 32h, used, probably pre-build with DT 2.0 standard
    - A23 on White Industries 32h, pre-build with DT 2.0.
    - Custom build by a local shop, H+ Archetype (or similar price), middle range hub, 36 spokes, double-boutted.

    I'm leaning on option 3, to have excatly what want instead of a more 'dreamee' hubs with options I not convice of.

  2. #27
    Senior Member chriskmurray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luskar View Post
    Okay, I'm down to 3 options for around the same budget:

    - H plus Son Archetype on Phil Wood's 32h, used, probably pre-build with DT 2.0 standard
    - A23 on White Industries 32h, pre-build with DT 2.0.
    - Custom build by a local shop, H+ Archetype (or similar price), middle range hub, 36 spokes, double-boutted.

    I'm leaning on option 3, to have excatly what want instead of a more 'dreamee' hubs with options I not convice of.
    Option 3 makes the most sense although I would suggest the Velocity Dyad over the Archetytpe with similar build. The Archetype does not look like a bad rim but it is still a touch on the light side for an all out commuter set of wheels for you. To me it looks more like their version of the A23 which is a tough rim but still not my ideal choice for heavy duty commuter rim.

  3. #28
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    I'd vote for option 3 with some reasonable shimano hubs or even some sealed bearing hubs that have a good hub body. Shimano because I have them on all my bikes so I know they're serviceable and good value, or sealed because when the stock bearings go, you can get a bearing set of your choice/budget from just about any machine shop and depending on what quality you want, they are usually pretty cheap. YMMV but I wouldn't spend a whole lot on a commuter setup. Functional with decent bearings and easily and cheaply replaced spokes is how I would go. They will cop a lot of weather abuse and nice bits are more liable for theft if you need to leave your bike exposed to such nastiness.

  4. #29
    squatchy
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    I'm surprised no one has suggested DT 350's laced to a Belgium C2 or C2+. I own these and love them to no end. Not only are the bomb proff, but they are also relatively light and ride quality is superb!!!

  5. #30
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    I've been away for a while, so I'm late to this thread.

    I'm going to take a slightly different tack than some of the respondants.

    The design brief is for a daily commuting wheelset for a 300lb 6'5" clyde. Presumably 700c X 130mm road spacing.

    My first question is, where are these wheels going to be used and in what weather conditions?

    I'm a big fan of Shimano's cup and cone hubs and steel freebodies, but, if getting used in a particularly wet climate and on an everyday/all weather basis it might be a good idea to consider sealed bearings.

    Then, what is the budget?

    With regard to used wheelsets, I wouldn't consider buying someone elses problems unless I'm personally familliar with the wheels, rider and history of those in question.

    It's nice to have good equipment, but, if getting used on a daily basis, in all weather and on generally heavily travelled and dirty roads, things wear more quickly and I wouldn't invest in anything too fancy for such use.

    With regard to hubs: unless things have changed, I believe that Shimano's Tiagra level hubs actually have a better, more robust, seal and weather protection system than the 105/Ultegra/DA hubs. At least the pair I used to own certainly did. They had a more elaborate labrynth seal, with lip seals and cover, as opposed to the lower drag and less protection of the the more expensive hubs. So, I would start with a set of 32h or 36h Tiagra hubs.

    With regard to rims: There are lots of choices depending on what your priorities are. If a wheel is well built it's life expectancy is probably determined by how long it takes to wear down the brake tracks and on wet grimey commuting roads that will happen more quickly than if the wheels are used for fair weather only. First and foremost, I would avoid anything that is so light that they have to sacrifice any sidewall thickness. That would eliminate some choices, such as the Pacenti SL23s, which are described as a "road and xc racing rim". Velocity Deep V or Dyad, DT Swiss 585 or TK540, would probably be near the top of my list.


    Any of those should be capable of taking full advantage of the tension you can build to with either straight 14 ga or double butted 14/15 stainless spokes. A choice like the DT585s would limit you to 32 spokes. The others would allow 36 spokes.

    Personally, I wold be happy with any of those rims laced to Tiagra or higher hubs (or a sealed alternative), laced 3X. In my case I would probably build them with straight 14ga/2.0mm on the rear drive side and 14/15ga 2.0/1.8mm double butted everywhere else with brass nipples. Tensioned to 130kgf on the drive side rear. And tension equalized to within +/-5%.

    Just my .02c
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  6. #31
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    I'm 215 (down from 230 this winter) and running Deep-V laced to Tiagra hubs with Sapim Race spokes.

    Heavy, sure, but stiff and really feel nice under me. I won't "upgrade" to drop weight from my wheels, these will last me years to come!
    2012 Diamondback Podium 2 - Ready for spring! :D
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  7. #32
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    Hello.

    What's the bike? How fast do you like to go? What are your goals? You planning to keep getting fitter, getting into centuries, going for Strava KOMs?

    Me: 210 now, from 260. I've had and worked on open pros, two sets of deep Vs, RR585s, Ambrosio FCS28s, and Arhetypes. On a combination of 105, xt, Ultegra, DA, Chris King and DA track hubs. Spokes from 28 to 36. I have learned:

    1. nothing beats a properly hand-made wheel. Not only will it stay true and solid, it will also have the right amount of give and life to it. This means a builder, preferably local, whom you speak with and who listens to you on how you ride. I've had a very dead-feeling set of deep-vs, and an IDENTICAL set feel pretty good. Different builder.

    2. when they are new, check them out (or have the builder do it), after the first 100-150 miles. Depending on how the builder works, they may want to be re-tensioned.

    3. Spokes…lots on this thread about rims and hubs, but spokes and nipples matter. Get quality spokes, I prefer double-butting, and for commuter wheels insist on brass nipples. They are much more durable. For spokes I'd suggest DT or my faves Sapim.

    4. Lacing: also matters. I'd suggest traditional 3x at you size, both sides. I would not get into fancy lacing patterns non-drive, for example.

    Okay, to rims:

    - Open Pros -- I've had two sets. Cracked one around the eyelets in 300 miles, second set refused to stay true. I almost stopped riding. Nothing but bad luck for me. Both were 32, 3x.
    - Deep V -- fine. Solid, heavy, kinda dead feeling. Narrow, and the alloy is relatively soft. I have had two sets; the first died when i wore through the brake surface at about 14,000 miles; the second has been fine but will be sold soon. Solid wheels, just not very exciting.
    - RR585 -- like a nice deep V. Much nicer braking surface; otherwise very similar. I had a set built up but took them apart to get the hubs. They are still in the basement; need to sell the rims at some point.
    - FCS28 -- oh, I do love these rims. Nicest by far to-date, solid, pretty, with a reinforced and recessed shelf for the nipples. They hold more tension than anything I've tried. And in the US, they are very rare, because their distribution is terrible. Best braking surface I've ridden, and no sign of wear in 6,000 miles so far.
    - Archetype -- very nice rims. They are more like HED Belgiums than a23s. The extra width makes them very plush, and they look great.

    Hubs:
    - Ultegra / 105 / DA -- solid, very smooth, and appear to be set up to outlive me. Engagement is on the slow side, and they don't have much personality -- very little sounds, slower engagement. They just work, and very well.
    - King r45 -- huge personality, very quick engagement and a nice buzz. They need more care than the shimano stuff, but are very worth it. Like jewelery for the bike.

    For you: I'd go with Archetypes over a23s, if nothing other than for the look and the first tire change (nobody I know who has a23s is able to hand-roll a tire on. I have two friends who swore off them just for that). Get as good a hub as you can afford. If you're new-ish to this, a shimano hub is a good call -- everyone in every shop knows them.
    Last edited by adrien; 05-31-14 at 05:47 AM.
    "how do you know you can't swim until you have drowned?"

  8. #33
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    OP's choices are poor for a heavy rider who is looking for a set of commuter wheels. If you want to save money, then go with 36H Shimano 105 hubs, Weinmann DP18 rims, and 14G SS DT spokes. You can also upgrade to Velocity Deep Vs if you want to spend a little more money. Deep V is a little stronger. Make sure the wheels are properly tensioned, dished, and stress-relieved for the longest life. I prefer to use hex brass nipple when working with those Deep V rims...higher spoke tension and easier to re-true if there is a need to re-true the wheel down the road.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrien View Post
    For you: I'd go with Archetypes over a23s, if nothing other than for the look and the first tire change (nobody I know who has a23s is able to hand-roll a tire on. I have two friends who swore off them just for that).
    Some good info there, but I must counter with I never had a problem hand mounting Conti GP4000 tyres to my A23s

  10. #35
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
    Some good info there, but I must counter with I never had a problem hand mounting Conti GP4000 tyres to my A23s
    Odd, must be a batch issue / QC.
    "how do you know you can't swim until you have drowned?"

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