TheNeed4Speed

Hello friends,

I posted a few months ago after I bought my Bianchi via Nirone road bike in anticipation of wheel troubles that I would have. I'm 280 lbs. and a tall bastard too. After logging over a 1000 miles on it, I've had relatively few problems. Recently though, I've broken 2 spokes in the last 2 weeks. And this is after putting on a different back wheel. Right now I have a Mavic Open Sport 36 spoke wheel. I'm not sure on spoke gauge but they seem relatively thin which may be a big part of the problem. In short, what wheel should I put on and where can I find it as far as online sites? I'm getting a little tired of dealing with the LBS in this matter because they've been less than helpful. Thanks!

ill.clyde

Realize I'm no expert, and am only speaking from my personal experience

I'm also somewhat of a "tall bastard" (6'3") and am currently at 268 (been as heavy as near 300) but I've been riding on Fulcrum Racing 7s on my road bike for the past three years now and I'm beyond pleased with them. They certainly wouldn't curry favor here, because they're a 24-spoke wheel and many believe they need a spoke count of 30+ to carry us heavier riders, but they've been a fantastic wheelset for me. Not terribly expensive either : Fulcrum Racing 7 Black HG Clincher Wheel Set in Tree Fort Bikes Wheels (cat113)

Again, this has been my personal experience with this wheelset, particularly the rear wheel. In three years I think I've had the front wheel trued once, due to my own negligence in paying attention to what I was riding on. I've been incredibly pleased with them.

sstorkel

Wheel durability is more about the skill of the builder and less about the exact component selection... If you want good wheels, you need to find a good wheelsmith... or learn to build your own wheels.

That said your best bet, if you're not concerned about weight, it a deep cross-section rim (think: Velocity Deep V, Kinlin XR-300, etc), double-butted spokes (DT Swiss Competition or DT Swiss Alpine 3 if you're paranoid), and brass nipples. I'd go with 32 spokes in front and 36 in the back, laced 3-cross. I'm not sure if any of the online builders are trustworthy. I bought my last wheelset from BF member psimet2001 and they've been terrific, but he's a one-man shop (at leas when I ordered) so it can take quite a while to get anything (even an email) from him.

After buying the psimet wheels I learned to build my own, which isn't as difficult as it might seem. Wheels are not a maintenance-free item, especially for a Clydesdale, so having the skills (and tools) necessary to maintain or build them isn't a bad thing...

psalm

As others have stated, only personal experience here too, so my recommendation is purely based on that. I currently am riding DT Swiss RR585, 32 spoke 3 cross. They are very strong, and very stiff. My weight has gotten as far up as 295 and those wheels handled it just fine.

mkadam68

+1

May I add, before you go taking everyone's advice... Why did the spokes break? For instance, was everything all nice & tight on your wheel? Perhaps the spokes were over-tightened by someone who was trying to maintain the wheel's trueness? Or was it out of true (have wobbles) that you had not taken care of?

Answers to these questions may dictate what your next steps are.

Now, a Mavic Open Sport, 36-hole wheel with 14g (2.0mm) spokes should be a great wheel for your weight, assuming it's been built by an expert wheelbuilder to even tension. I do recommend Psimet wheels and he's available online (just takes time to get a wheel from him).

Null66

I'm 6' 260-285...

I was breaking spokes w/ a 40, even after rebuilt by good mechanic.

Always drive side.

I had a bike builder (mostly high end mountain bikes) build up a pw 48 spoke with velocity chukkers... over 3k miles and still dead true, even with some of the stupid things I've done. Once I accidentally took it airborne at about 20, with a decent load on the rear rack. Another time off a curb, slow but still sounded pretty hard. Low on blood sugar I can really mess up good.

They may not be light, but I know they always get me home.

With my old bike, I once had a front cone seize up on me about 10 miles from home. Out of water, over 100 degrees, I was not comfortable the next day...

Sometimes, nothing succeeds like excess.

TheNeed4Speed

Those are good points, although I'm not sure that the spokes on it are 14g (2.0mm). Say for example they weren't, would replacing the spokes with 14g (2.0mm) be worth it?

chriskmurray

You would be able to get many thousands of miles out of a set of Velocity Deep V's in 36 hole laced to what ever hub your budget allows as long as it is done by a good builder. One way to week out good builders from those who may be less experienced is that most really good wheel builders are confident enough in their work to offer a guarantee that no spokes will break outside of physical damage (ie: chain cutting spokes, stick through spokes, etc). They will offer this because a properly built wheel should never break a spoke.

Bill Kapaun

Where are you spokes breaking?
J bend, nipple or??

TheNeed4Speed

J bend

donalson

the J bend indicates inadequate spoke tension or a very well worn wheel (which is where the triple butted spokes like the alpineIII comes in)... in this case and most for us clyds I'd expect the tension being the issue...

brawlo

A 36 spoke Mavic wheel build should not cause you any problems. There are many people out there that can build wheels, but there are far less good wheel builders out there. It seems that you need to go elsewhere to have your wheels looked at. You should start making contact with other riders in your area to try and find of a good wheelbuilder nearby. Let them take a look at your wheel and replace the spokes that need replacing. You definitely shouldn't need a whole new wheel.

TheNeed4Speed

So, does that imply that they were improperly tight or improperly loose? (i think I just opened a can of worms.....)

TheNeed4Speed

I'm a pretty powerful rider though. Not bragging but I'm a 6'9" powerhouse, especially compared to the typical rider.

chriskmurray

If it broke at the bend it is likely either too low of spoke tension or just poor quality spokes. The tension is easy to check with the right tools but even if you correct it chances are fatigue has set in and at the very least you should have the wheel rebuilt with quality spokes.

I will stand behind my comment about a properly built wheel should NEVER break a spoke, no matter how big/powerful you are outside of physical damage.

If you let us know where you are located we can help you find a good builder close or if you happen to be near Colorado Springs I can certainly check your current wheel out, I would not charge anything just to check it over. I build wheels for a living so I am pretty confident in my ability to tell you where the problem lies.

TheNeed4Speed

I live in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

donalson

low... when the spoke tension is low as your wheel rolls it gets put under tension (pulls on it) when it goes to the top of the rotation and then loosens tension as it rolls to the bottom portion of the rotation... in short its like taking a wire hanger and bending it back and forth over and over until it snaps except much smaller movement... over time the metal work hardens and eventually snaps... when the wheel has proper tension it won't be able to loosen as it goes to the bottom of rotation...

brawlo

I won't brag either, but I'm a short ass 6'5" powerhouse with a track sprint racing addiction. I have never ridden any wheel with more than 32 spokes. My everyday track training wheels are 32 spoke Aeroheads and they have never lost true after possibly thousands of standing starts and sprints from speed. I started out riding road and track at 140kg (308lb) and am down to 115kg now. My first road wheelset was 28/28 spoke wheels and after 3 years, one spoke started coming loose so I ventured into the world of wheel maintenance and got a spoke key and a tension meter. I've never broken a spoke, just been lucky to have well built wheels.

As chris points out, fatigue in your spokes due to insufficient spoke tension appears to be your dilemma, and is a very common dilemma for us larger folk. Basically as I understand it, the tension built up in the spoke in the wheel build is what should "unweight" as the wheel rotates. When there's not enough tension, the spoke will fully unweight and move in the spoke hole and cause fatigue and failure at the J-bend.

Now that we know your location, perhaps some nearby people can point you to a good wheelbuilder that can help in your situation. Perhaps even ask around in the road racing and training forums as there may be more knowledge about in those places.

chriskmurray

Ahh, closest I know that are good are the builders at Velocity USA, great guys but a bit of a haul for you. The Wheel Department: Home

You can always call around to other shops and ask about wheel building experience. If any of them say they will guarantee their wheels will not break a spoke chances are they are decent, at the very least you have a warranty if you go with them.

TheNeed4Speed

Interesting comments. That concept makes sense. At the other end of the spectrum, how do you know when tight is "too tight"? I mean surely flirting with the boundaries of over-tensioning is problematic too. Are you saying that for heavier and more powerful riders that it's safer to err on the side of over-tensioning?

Is there a certain nominal range that a tensiometer would convey that can help us quantify this dilemma? Is it reasonable to take my back wheel with the busted spoke back to my LBS tomorrow morning and say "please fix this at no cost because you didn't have the spokes tensioned to X units"?..

brawlo

Basically, you will have a max spoke tension in respec to the rim you are using. I have the Park tension gauge TM-1 and it comes with a set of tables to translate the gauge reading to a tension based on what type of spokes they are. For me personally, I have only used it to equalise tension of spokes. You want to have the tension up towards the higher end of recommended or just under max for heavy riders. With 36 spokes, you could probably even start a little lower. If there are then issues you can up the tension a little, but still staying under max.

I recently killed a Velocity A23 rim and have replaced those wheelset rims with Open Pros as they have the same diameter, thus I could just reuse the spokes. I will see if they can last just as long.

I think you should definitely take the wheels back to the shop and pass judgement on the service you receive. You're a bigger guy, yes, but that is definitely not a reason to break a spoke on a new 36 spoke wheel.

A couple of questions though, did you take the wheel back after a couple of hundred miles to be checked over, and indeed, did they ask you to? Did they build up the wheel themselves? It is a general rule to have a new wheel checked over after a small distance as often the wheel will bed in and go out of true a little. My second wheelset never went out of true until the rear died. The rebuild of that set with the new rims went out of true after only 50km, but has stayed true since. I have since come across talk of newer Mavics rims being difficult to keep true in the rear, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

seely

Aw, shucks. I'm blushing.

chriskmurray

This is where experience can help a whole lot. Some rims handle higher tensions than others. The Open Sport rim you have is generally pretty solid. In short each rim somewhere has a "max recommended tension", unfortunatly it is not always published and sometimes the quote the max tensions higher than it really should be and you will have cracks around the spoke holes at the listed max tension.

For your wheel I would shoot for around 120 kgf and keeping each spoke at a consistent tension is critical for long wheel life. +/- 5% is ideal, +/- 10% is acceptable generally, especially with a wheel that already has some miles. Anything at or above 100kgf is usually acceptable but not ideal for heavier riders and not ideal if your wheel has a lot of dish leaving the non drive side spokes very loose. Having a lot of dish is usually hub dependent but there are some rims out there that are labeled "OC" for off center which helps balance spoke tensions between drive side and non drive side.

Remember that stress relieving the wheel is also very important for a long life as simple as it may seem. The simplest way to do it is simply throw on some leather gloves and squeeze pairs of spokes hard enough that it is starting to hurt, a quick yet hard squeeze is fine. One other thing I like to do with a wooden dowel is to bend the spokes around the hub flange after the wheel is laced and at light tension, it is essentially lining the spoke up in its natural direction since there is no way for a spoke manufacturer to perfectly bend elbows for all hub/rim combos. This method has worked well for wheels going as far as to the South Pole and around the world for my customers so it is safe to say it is tried and true.

TheNeed4Speed

Got the spoke fixed today. Talked with the LBS mechanic and told him that I would like to make the Mavic Open Sport 36h wheel work. I'll probably take it back for retensioning after about 100 miles, given I don't kill a spoke before that. I think the next thing I'll do if I have further problems with this wheel is transfer the hub over to another rim, keeping the 36h. I'm not willing to pay the extra money for the 40h hubs. So, I'm going to try to increase my cadence, ride lighter, etc. Wish me luck and feel free to comment. Thanks for everyone's feedback, this is a work in progress for me.