sstorkel

When was the last time you calibrated your speedometer? If you can sprint to 35mph, you need to be racing. Professionally.

Jarrett2

BigFred, thanks for all of that great input.

bigfred 

That's only 56kph. That's not that fast for a sprint. Heck, I can do that. And, I'm the exact opposite of a sprinter.

sstorkel

You can find the 10-speed version of the G3 on sale for around $600 these days. I just bought one from Competitive Cyclist for $594 and got a $50 credit to use on my next purchase, for a net cost of $544. I figure I can find a rim, 32 DT Swiss Competition spokes, and 32 brass nipples for around $100, which should have me looking at around $650 once I build the wheel up...

bigfred 

Sweet mama! I wish I had a few hundred extra lying around right now. Oh, how I would enjoy playing with even more metrics.

indyfabz

You wrote your wheel is out of true. That's not "bent." It's out of true. Unless you have damaged the rim, the wheel can be trued and should stay true if done properly.

You live near Dallas. There has got to be a good wheel builder there. Do some research and ask around.

Jarrett2

Just spoke with Prowheelbuilder.com (good guy) and he walked me through a few things and ended up recommending the following:
HED Belgium C2 - 32 rear
White Industries T11 = $340
Sapim Race Race J Bend silver
Sapim Silver Brass Nipples
Order Notes: Please add 105 Cassette 11/28 (5700/10-speed) installed
$551.63 ($601.63 rush + shipping)

Jarrett2

How much difference does the hub make? Looking at these:

SHIMANO 105 FH5700 BLACK REAR HUB
$82.00
353 grams


PHIL WOOD BLACK MULTI GEARED FREE WHEEL REAR HUB
$178.00
339 grams


VELOCITY RACE REAR BLACK HUB
$213.00
255 grams

AMERICAN CLASSIC 205 BLACK HUB
$283.00
205 grams

WHITE INDUSTRIES T11 BLACK REAR HUB
$320.00
252 grams


I9 TORCH ROAD HUB REAR BLACK
$322.00
234 grams


SHIMANO DURA ACE HB9000 BLACK REAR HUB
$363.00
234 grams

CHRIS KING SWIFT / R45 BLACK REAR HUB
$404.00
215 grams

Willbird

The Phil White T11 hub is on Ebay $275 Buy it now shipped :-). Looks like the White has a TI freehub body.

Willbird

Really though overall sitting and thinking about this (something I like to do anyway hehe) to me it comes down to "find somebody good and trust them".

So if this guy is good, IMHO trust him, I would buy some spare spokes though just to have around, far easier to have an odd length spoke and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Shipping wheels back and forth to anybody would get to be a PITA if you have issues.....

I did see another thread here that was kind of interesting about the subject of going back and forth between 10 speed and 11 speed without having to change wheel dish with BHS hubs.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...d-bhs-hub.html

Willbird

Here is a sub $250 wheelset thread too, the links might take you places where you could go on up to your wanted/needed features.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...wheel-set.html

adrien

That's a very solid build. Belgiums are really nice. If you want to save some coin, you can go with Archetypes, which are very, very similar.

To your question on hubs…They can make a big difference, in terms of weight, look, and "personality" of a wheel set. For example, Ultegra and DA will be reliable forever, require very little hand-holding, and silent (if that's your thing). Something flashier (Like the CK hubs) are like jewelry for a bike, lighter, and have a very distinctive sound to them. Some (again, like the CKs) also have substantially different engagement. That means when you go from coasting to pedaling, the hub engages sooner in the rotation, making it feel like the bike is accelerating right away rather than there being a small pause.

I have a set of wheels with Ultegra hubs, and a set with CKs. The CKs were a whole lot of money, but have a whole lot of personality. The Shimano hubs don't, and weren't.

Jarrett2

Cool, thanks. Here is what wheelbuilder.com recommended:

HED Belgium+ 25mm - 32 rear
DT Swiss 350 Rear Black
DT Competition Silver
DT Swiss silver nipples
Shimano 105 - 10 speed - 11/28 cassette
$524.99

bigfred 

A couple of my thoughts on hubs:

Probably the biggest thing to consider between different hubs is the flange spacing. Wid'ish left flanges provide a better bracing angle and can produce a laterally more stiff wheel. But, result in a greater differential between drive side and non-drive side tensions. Narrow flanges minimize the tension difference, but, don't build into as stiff a wheel.

Personally, after having destroyed several alloy freehub bodies I have developed a preference for steel bodies. They don't notch as easily, but, more importantly for a heavy clyde who is occassionally sprinting on them, they have greater pawl/ratchet integrity. Titanium is a bit of an inbetween material. It's more durable than aluminum but not as durable as steel. So, basically, I would encourage clydes to avoid the cheap/light hubs that utilize aluminum alloy freehubs in preference for either steel or if weight is a concern going for ti.

Bearings: Cup and cone are time tested, proven, easily user servicable and in the case of Shimano, should last a lifetime. Cartrige or sealed bearings vary. Some of the more affordable hubs have a reputation for shipping with bearings that don't last long. But, which are fine, once those bearings have been replaced with a name brand set.

The three most common choices end up being Shimano (tiagra, 105, ultegra) for durability and value, Chris King for light weight, durable, high quality bling and White Industries as an in between.

sstorkel

Seems a bit pricey for a standard wheel. I think this is what I'm going to do for my next wheel:

PowerTap G3 hub: $544 (net)
Kinlin XR-270 rim: $42
DT Swiss Competition spokes: $32
Wheelsmith brass nipples: $3.20

So $621 without a cassette. If you believe the manufacturer's specs for weight, the build should come in around 950g. Not super-light, but several hundred grams less than my current PowerTap Pro+ wheel. That wheel, for what it's worth, uses a 28-spoke Kinlin XR-300 rim and has more than 15,000 trouble-free miles on it.

Jarrett2

I decided to go get one of these to hold me over:

Shimano 105/Mavic Open Sport Rear Wheel

A great value in a high-quality, Wheelsmith-built clincher road wheel. The Shimano 105/Mavic Open Sport rear wheel is sturdy enough for everyday riding and light and agile enough for weekend racers on a budget.

• Hand-built by Wheelsmith using 14 gauge Wheelsmith spokes
• Shimano 105 hub is extremely durable and offers easy maintenance and simple adjustment. Super-polished, precision ball races for smooth rotation
• Mavic Open Sport rim provides a perfect balance of durability and light weight
• UB Control braking surface is milled to improve braking friction and eliminate shuddering

The local PB store has one in stock and an Ultegra cassette. The local owner says he's had good luck with Clydes on it.

sstorkel

If you paid any less for a wheel, it would probably be square

What happened to your plans to buy a good, durable wheel? I honestly don't know anything about the reputation of this wheel, but for $129 I'd be surprised if it weren't machine-made. Hopefully PB checked the spoke tension before handing the wheel over?

andr0id

The 11speed freehub body can be had on Amazon for $90. I just picked one up a few weeks ago.
You pull off the old one and plug in the new one. Easy peasy.

andr0id

I would say this is a very pretty good choice. Shimano hubs are very reliable and Mavic rims are usually solid. I used to use Open Pros all the time.

I tend to think due to improvements in materials a 32 is equal to or probably stronger than an 36 from days past.

One thing on cup and cones bearings that you should have the shop check and adjust.
They should be ever so slightly loose when the QR is not closed. about 1-2mm of play at the rim. As you close the QR, the play should go away. The reason for this is that the QR tension actually compresses the axle and cones a bit as it closes.

A lot of mechanics don't have much experience with cup and cone and set them perfectly when off the bike. Then they are too tight when the skewer is locked.

adrien

With an older box section rim, build quality becomes more important. I personally have not had much luck with open pros or open sports, and PB wheels are usually machine-made. Nothing wrong with making that call, and I am a data set of one. I would recommend, though, that you chat with them about return policy and having a wheel builder look over tension before you take it home.

bigfred 

All this talk and then,...................................................................sigh

Jarrett2

lol yep, nothing too sexy this time around.

I ended up going to my local Performance Bike this evening and doing the deal. I got the Mavic Open Sport/Shimano 105 hub wheelset plus an Ultegra cassette, a pair of Conti Race 28 tubes and a set of Ultra Gatorskin 25c tires for less than the one rear wheel I had been spec'ing out and all installed for free.

The sales/service guy was extremely helpful and installed it all while I waited. The kicker was I asked him if he had a digital scale around and he did, so we weighed the wheels fully built up wheels before swapping them:

Stock Fulcrum 18h Front: 2lb. 15oz.
Mavic 36h Front: 2lb 15oz.

Stock Fulcrum 24h rear / no name hub / Tiagra cassette: 4lbs 3oz.
Mavic 36h rear / Shimano 105 hub / Shimano Ultegra cassette: 3lbs 15oz.

I was certainly surprised to find that the new wheelset weighed less than the Fulcrums that came stock.

I took it for a lap around the block and all seemed fine. Slightly different feel. The big diff was the 11-28 cassette change from my 12-30. Hills are going to be interesting I think. I'll do my 20 mile ride in the AM and see how it all works.

Thanks again for all of the advice.

bigfred 

There's nothing wrong with any of those components. If we had known this is the direction you were leaning, I think some of our advice may have been a bit different.

With the wheels you have now, do one thing for yourself and them: Find an excellent wheelsmith and pay him to go through the rear, stress relieving, tensioning, truing and equalizing until further stress relieving no longer has any effect on it.

Jarrett2

Yeah, I was thinking about spending more initially, but thought I would try this route. Talking to wheelbuilders, they all said wheels just don't last forever, even the good ones. So plan on buying them periodically. As much as I ride, I thought I should change direction and focus on keeping a couple of inexpensive sets around to swap as needed versus buying one expensive set that may not last much longer anyway.

I'm hoping these PB wheels work out, they are easy enough on the wallet.

Regarding your comment about the wheelsmith. Are you talking about taking the Fulcrums to them or this new set?

bigfred 

The new wheels. Particulalry the rear.

You've bought $230 worth of components assembled into a wheelset for $240. How much time and attention to detail do you expect has been invested in those?