What's the deal with riders choosing much older bikes over latest technology?
#76
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So I took a little vacation this weekend and stayed in South Austin for a couple of days. It's a cool town. There are cyclists and bike friendly infrastructure everywhere in that town. But the thing I found funny, was in this part of Austin virtually EVERYONE was riding an older bike What appeared to be lots of older steel bikes of different makes and models. Lots of fixies as well. Very few newer race/carbon bikes on the road.
Yesterday, I went a little farther South to the Austin Veloway and it was almost all carbon race bikes in that area. I went down to New Braunsfel and went to a popular ride area and all carbon race bikes there as well.
But after reading this thread, I have a better idea of why people ride older bikes instead of the latest tech:
Nostalgia - like owning a 68 Camaro / had one when they were a kid
Practical - some rides/locales are not good for expensive bikes
Financial - they appear to be very inexpensive comparatively
Prefer the Ride - grew up riding steel, likes steel, not interested in change
Familiar Tech - grew up working on old bikes, not interested in learning to work on new tech
For me, I live and ride in a low crime area. My bikes stay in my garage. I don't commute to work and don't have to leave my bikes in an insecure area. I didn't spend the last decades riding older tech bikes, so it currently holds no appeal to me. My LBS that I like carries and rides newer tech. The group rides I do consist mostly of riders on carbon race inspired bikes.
Every time I ask local riders about steel, they tell me it is too noodly for a rider of my size/strength. And that a stiffer material like carbon or maybe even titanium would be better for me.
Yesterday, I went a little farther South to the Austin Veloway and it was almost all carbon race bikes in that area. I went down to New Braunsfel and went to a popular ride area and all carbon race bikes there as well.
But after reading this thread, I have a better idea of why people ride older bikes instead of the latest tech:
Nostalgia - like owning a 68 Camaro / had one when they were a kid
Practical - some rides/locales are not good for expensive bikes
Financial - they appear to be very inexpensive comparatively
Prefer the Ride - grew up riding steel, likes steel, not interested in change
Familiar Tech - grew up working on old bikes, not interested in learning to work on new tech
For me, I live and ride in a low crime area. My bikes stay in my garage. I don't commute to work and don't have to leave my bikes in an insecure area. I didn't spend the last decades riding older tech bikes, so it currently holds no appeal to me. My LBS that I like carries and rides newer tech. The group rides I do consist mostly of riders on carbon race inspired bikes.
Every time I ask local riders about steel, they tell me it is too noodly for a rider of my size/strength. And that a stiffer material like carbon or maybe even titanium would be better for me.
Steel roadbikes were few and far between in the 1990s, actually road bikes on the whole were being outsold by MTBs in that decade that there aren't a whole lot of used ones to choose from. When the Lance era came about road sales shot up but steel was pretty much only available in custom bikes and some reasonably priced steel started up from Surly and Soma, etc. The Surly stuff isn't exactly sporty, so a sporty steel lover would probably rather get '80s action.
Even then you were talking $400 frameset when you could get some SWEET Italian steel complete offa craigslist for that.
I like steel road bikes. Horizontal top tubes and preferably no tubes greater than 1-1/8", is what looks good to me.
I do have a (barely) 21[sup]st[/sup] century roadie, TIG'd 853 Lemond with a plastic fork.
Gonna eventually put some Ultegra 9-sp shifters on my late-80s Scapin some day. Have the shifters and the wheel, just need cassette.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 09-15-14 at 12:51 PM.
#77
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Older bikes are cheaper. 2 of my commuters are set up just for winter, not going to subject a new ride to harsh NE winters. When is the last time you saw a carbon bike older than 15 yrs? Just saying.
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So I took a little vacation this weekend and stayed in South Austin for a couple of days. It's a cool town. There are cyclists and bike friendly infrastructure everywhere in that town. But the thing I found funny, was in this part of Austin virtually EVERYONE was riding an older bike What appeared to be lots of older steel bikes of different makes and models. Lots of fixies as well. Very few newer race/carbon bikes on the road.
Yesterday, I went a little farther South to the Austin Veloway and it was almost all carbon race bikes in that area. I went down to New Braunsfel and went to a popular ride area and all carbon race bikes there as well.
But after reading this thread, I have a better idea of why people ride older bikes instead of the latest tech:
Nostalgia - like owning a 68 Camaro / had one when they were a kid
Practical - some rides/locales are not good for expensive bikes
Financial - they appear to be very inexpensive comparatively
Prefer the Ride - grew up riding steel, likes steel, not interested in change
Familiar Tech - grew up working on old bikes, not interested in learning to work on new tech
For me, I live and ride in a low crime area. My bikes stay in my garage. I don't commute to work and don't have to leave my bikes in an insecure area. I didn't spend the last decades riding older tech bikes, so it currently holds no appeal to me. My LBS that I like carries and rides newer tech. The group rides I do consist mostly of riders on carbon race inspired bikes.
Every time I ask local riders about steel, they tell me it is too noodly for a rider of my size/strength. And that a stiffer material like carbon or maybe even titanium would be better for me.
Yesterday, I went a little farther South to the Austin Veloway and it was almost all carbon race bikes in that area. I went down to New Braunsfel and went to a popular ride area and all carbon race bikes there as well.
But after reading this thread, I have a better idea of why people ride older bikes instead of the latest tech:
Nostalgia - like owning a 68 Camaro / had one when they were a kid
Practical - some rides/locales are not good for expensive bikes
Financial - they appear to be very inexpensive comparatively
Prefer the Ride - grew up riding steel, likes steel, not interested in change
Familiar Tech - grew up working on old bikes, not interested in learning to work on new tech
For me, I live and ride in a low crime area. My bikes stay in my garage. I don't commute to work and don't have to leave my bikes in an insecure area. I didn't spend the last decades riding older tech bikes, so it currently holds no appeal to me. My LBS that I like carries and rides newer tech. The group rides I do consist mostly of riders on carbon race inspired bikes.
Every time I ask local riders about steel, they tell me it is too noodly for a rider of my size/strength. And that a stiffer material like carbon or maybe even titanium would be better for me.
IMO, they are trying to sell you the most expensive thing they can or don't know what they are talking about.
#81
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Last edited by Jarrett2; 09-16-14 at 06:28 AM.
#82
~>~
No better way to get a fair & impartial overview of a variety of materials, designs and construction techniques in bicycles.
Try asking a Waterford dealer the same question, that would be fair.
-Bandera
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So your "local riders" were a LBS that doesn't sell modern lightweight steel road bikes?
No better way to get a fair & impartial overview of a variety of materials, designs and construction techniques in bicycles.
Try asking a Waterford dealer the same question, that would be fair.
-Bandera
No better way to get a fair & impartial overview of a variety of materials, designs and construction techniques in bicycles.
Try asking a Waterford dealer the same question, that would be fair.
-Bandera
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So your "local riders" were a LBS that doesn't sell modern lightweight steel road bikes?
No better way to get a fair & impartial overview of a variety of materials, designs and construction techniques in bicycles.
Try asking a Waterford dealer the same question, that would be fair.
-Bandera
No better way to get a fair & impartial overview of a variety of materials, designs and construction techniques in bicycles.
Try asking a Waterford dealer the same question, that would be fair.
-Bandera
Steel bikes were never all that lightweight to begin with which is why nearly all manufacturers transitioned to aluminum and then carbon. There are exceptions but, for the most part, steel bikes are going to be significantly heavier than just about anything else. World class race bikes, i.e. the kind ridden by professional racers, from the early 80s to early 90s weighed in at around 20 lbs. That's superbly lightweight but by today's standards that in boat anchor class. If it weren't for the backwardness of of the UCI, racing bike weights could easily be under 12 lbs.
I do agree (somewhat) with Bandera's previous comment about learning a bit more about materials and design. Any bike material can be used to make a bike that is stiffer than you'd want to ride. Steel, for example, isn't a "compliant" material. It's actually much stiffer than aluminum...by a factor of nearly 3. But the way the material is used has a large effect on the way it rides. A steel bike wouldn't necessarily be "noodly" unless the manufacturer used thin tubes and a small diameter. That's generally what they do with steel to make it "lightweight" because that's the flip side of the stiffness issue.
Steel has a density that is about 3 times that of aluminum. A cube of aluminum that is a foot square, for example, would weigh 168 lbs. A cube of the same size in steel weight 490 lbs. Because of the lack of stiffness in aluminum, you need to use more of it to make a frame stiff enough so that is isn't "noodly" but you don't have to use 3 times as much. If you increase the diameter of the tubing, you can use less material to achieve the stiffness that you want while using slightly less material. A large tubed aluminum frame uses about 1.5 times the volume of steel but, because of the density differences, the steel bike still weighs more. You can thin out the steel to make the frame lighter but there is a limit to how thin you can make the frame before you start denting it too easily.
Finally, go read the link to materials above. A bike's ride is more dependent on the tires, saddle and how the rider rides the bike then on the frame material. If you read enough of these "steel is real/aluminum is crap" discussions, you find that the real differences boil down to aesthetics more than any other factor.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 09-16-14 at 08:53 AM.
#86
~>~
Is a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma 2 frameset a better comparison to a custom $2,500 Waterford?
Well designed CF or Alum framesets will be lighter than steel and can be just as "noodly", "punishing", "vertically compliant", "plane-ing" or whatever the marketing speak of the day requires designers, engineers and manufacturers to produce.
I'm not an apologist for steel, although I own several (and Alumium & CF) but sheer utter nonsense needs to be called out as such and myths eliminated from serious discourse.
-Bandera
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It's an open ended comparison since I didn't note any specific budget from the OP just bogusness from the "local riders/LBS" who don't sell quality lightweight steel frames and incorrectly dismiss them as "too noodly for a rider of my size/strength". "Noodly" (I'm guessing at whatever that technical term means) is not a characteristic of a well designed & manufactured steel frameset. Waterford being an example or a $700 Soma Stanyan frameset at a modest price.
Is a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma 2 frameset a better comparison to a custom $2,500 Waterford?
Well designed CF or Alum framesets will be lighter than steel and can be just as "noodly", "punishing", "vertically compliant", "plane-ing" or whatever the marketing speak of the day requires designers, engineers and manufacturers to produce.
I'm not an apologist for steel, although I own several (and Alumium & CF) but sheer utter nonsense needs to be called out as such and myths eliminated from serious discourse.
-Bandera
Is a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma 2 frameset a better comparison to a custom $2,500 Waterford?
Well designed CF or Alum framesets will be lighter than steel and can be just as "noodly", "punishing", "vertically compliant", "plane-ing" or whatever the marketing speak of the day requires designers, engineers and manufacturers to produce.
I'm not an apologist for steel, although I own several (and Alumium & CF) but sheer utter nonsense needs to be called out as such and myths eliminated from serious discourse.
-Bandera
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It's an open ended comparison since I didn't note any specific budget from the OP just bogusness from the "local riders/LBS" who don't sell quality lightweight steel frames and incorrectly dismiss them as "too noodly for a rider of my size/strength". "Noodly" (I'm guessing at whatever that technical term means) is not a characteristic of a well designed & manufactured steel frameset. Waterford being an example or a $700 Soma Stanyan frameset at a modest price.
Is a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma 2 frameset a better comparison to a custom $2,500 Waterford?
Well designed CF or Alum framesets will be lighter than steel and can be just as "noodly", "punishing", "vertically compliant", "plane-ing" or whatever the marketing speak of the day requires designers, engineers and manufacturers to produce.
I'm not an apologist for steel, although I own several (and Alumium & CF) but sheer utter nonsense needs to be called out as such and myths eliminated from serious discourse.
-Bandera
Is a $6,000 Pinarello Dogma 2 frameset a better comparison to a custom $2,500 Waterford?
Well designed CF or Alum framesets will be lighter than steel and can be just as "noodly", "punishing", "vertically compliant", "plane-ing" or whatever the marketing speak of the day requires designers, engineers and manufacturers to produce.
I'm not an apologist for steel, although I own several (and Alumium & CF) but sheer utter nonsense needs to be called out as such and myths eliminated from serious discourse.
-Bandera
For that matter, you aren't likely to run across a shop that sells Soma or Salsa or Velo Orange bikes. If you are lucky, you might find a shop that carries Jamis or Surly but neither are offering that what I would call a "lightweight" steel bike...certainly not on par with something like a Waterford or Rodriquez.
And, just like the other major manufacturers, Jamis only offers a few steel bikes while the rest of the line is aluminum and carbon.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#89
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Good points. I am in the steel is real camp. It is somewhat of a niche these days but you don't have to buy a Waterford to get steel. Jamis, Surly, Soma, Velo Orange, and Salsa all make steel frames. Most are not in the super lightweight category, but is is possible to build up a 20 lb bike or slightly less for less than many carbon fiber bikes these days which isn't bad, maybe just a couple of lbs heavier than comparable cf. Unless you are planning on competing at an elite level, you will hardly notice a difference.
I think experience might also come into play here in having ridden many, many bikes as opposed to listening to a sales rep in an LBS. Carbon bikes can be made very light, and relatively easily so, especially by big manufacturers. If you make a living racing, yes, lighter is faster. But you don't feel weight much, and it's not much weight.
I have a lovely high-end custom steel bike. Built up, with wheels that last under 210 pounds of me hammering it, it weighs, oh, 19 pounds or so. With a carbon fork and lighter group set I could shave another 1.5 pounds off that.
For what it cost, in all, I could be riding, say a Madone or a Tarmac or a Roubaix, maybe even an S Works if I was careful. Those would weigh around 16 pounds. I've ridden them, and I don't like how they feel. I am reminded of a friend of mine who has a very similar steel bike and a c59, and prefers the steel bike except in very fast group rides or when climbing a lot (like more than 5,000 feet), and a c59 is far more lust-worthy in my mind than one of the big brand bikes I mentioned.
I also rode a Dogma 64.1 for a little over a week this summer. Weighed about 14 pounds in my size (!) and I was faster on it, probably, oh, by 3-5% by my calculations, and only on ascents. I was actually slower on descents, because it was more skittish. I liked it a lot, though it did poorly on anything not super-smooth, and it was a handful as a descender. It was also, roughly, $16,000. But it's the first carbon bike I've spent a lot of time with that I genuinely liked, in all its edgy Italian ugliness.
Bottom line: the weight argument is 95% marketing for anyone who doesn't make a living racing. If you do, it's legit, but you can still get a steel bike down to that weight. In fact, the Condor team in the UK is racing steel.
#90
~>~
A Waterford isn't a bike that you'll find in an LBS that "sell[s] modern lightweight steel road bikes". Nor is it a bike that you are likely to find many people in any given area that have experience with. Riders in his area (or any area) are much more likely to run across some old 80's bike that was noodly and not all that light weight. There's about a million of each one of those to every Waterford you'll run across.
For that matter, you aren't likely to run across a shop that sells Soma or Salsa or Velo Orange bikes. If you are lucky, you might find a shop that carries Jamis or Surly but neither are offering that what I would call a "lightweight" steel bike...certainly not on par with something like a Waterford or Rodriquez. .
For that matter, you aren't likely to run across a shop that sells Soma or Salsa or Velo Orange bikes. If you are lucky, you might find a shop that carries Jamis or Surly but neither are offering that what I would call a "lightweight" steel bike...certainly not on par with something like a Waterford or Rodriquez. .
1) "A Waterford isn't a bike that you'll find in an LBS that "sell[s] modern lightweight steel road bikes". "
A Waterford dealer is less than 10 miles from my driveway, look for one if interested.
He also sells Gunnar, a nice lightweight steel frameset at a lower price.
B)"Riders in his area (or any area) are much more likely to run across some old 80's bike that was noodly and not all that light weight"
What does that have to w/ the price of tea in China?
The point being addressed is mis-information/myth promulgated by "local rider/LBS" not what old machines are in local garages.
III) "you aren't likely to run across a shop that sells Soma or Salsa or Velo Orange bikes"
My Soma Stanyan was purchased through a LBS 15 minutes from home, it's light enough for my requirements.
In the age of e-commerce purchasing a frameset or bike from an online vendor is preferred by many, especially when one's LBS spouts sheer utter nonsense.
-Bandera: Done w/ this Horse
#91
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No idea why you are so intent on beating this horse but here goes:
1) "A Waterford isn't a bike that you'll find in an LBS that "sell[s] modern lightweight steel road bikes". "
A Waterford dealer is less than 10 miles from my driveway, look for one if interested.
He also sells Gunnar, a nice lightweight steel frameset at a lower price.
1) "A Waterford isn't a bike that you'll find in an LBS that "sell[s] modern lightweight steel road bikes". "
A Waterford dealer is less than 10 miles from my driveway, look for one if interested.
He also sells Gunnar, a nice lightweight steel frameset at a lower price.
B)"Riders in his area (or any area) are much more likely to run across some old 80's bike that was noodly and not all that light weight"
What does that have to w/ the price of tea in China?
The point being addressed is mis-information/myth promulgated by "local rider/LBS" not what old machines are in local garages.
What does that have to w/ the price of tea in China?
The point being addressed is mis-information/myth promulgated by "local rider/LBS" not what old machines are in local garages.
III) "you aren't likely to run across a shop that sells Soma or Salsa or Velo Orange bikes"
My Soma Stanyan was purchased through a LBS 15 minutes from home, it's light enough for my requirements.
In the age of e-commerce purchasing a frameset or bike from an online vendor is preferred by many, especially when one's LBS spouts sheer utter nonsense.
-Bandera: Done w/ this Horse
My Soma Stanyan was purchased through a LBS 15 minutes from home, it's light enough for my requirements.
In the age of e-commerce purchasing a frameset or bike from an online vendor is preferred by many, especially when one's LBS spouts sheer utter nonsense.
-Bandera: Done w/ this Horse
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 09-16-14 at 12:12 PM.
#92
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It's a pity this thread has deteriorated in a "steel or not" discussion. Steel isn't, in itself, an outdated tech. Reynolds 953 stainless can give titanium a run for its money as far as strength/weight ratio is concerned, and with a top of the line groupset and decent wheels can come in at or close to the UCI minimum weight.
The guys who built racing bikes out of 531 back in the day knew what they were doing. Some of those bikes were terrific, despite being heavier than the modern aluminium or CF equivalents. And these days, one can equip them with modern tech. My own custom steel bike is made of columbus spirit. Great material. I removed most of the weight differential between it and a CF bike by specifying a carbon fork. It's the bike I use for jra and ultralight touring, so I have a Shimano 105 triple on it and a set of Mavic openpros with Hope hubs. Far from the lightest set-up I could achieve, but the bike weighs in at 19 lbs despite being a 62cm frame.
That's a long way from being a "boat anchor". Sure, it's heavier than my Giant TCR, but to a degree that is noticeable only on the climbs and at race pace. I'd happily race it in a crit and not feel at any disadvantage - possibly the reverse, because having been built specifically for me it handles slightly better that the TCR, my centre of gravity is fractionally further forward.
Outdated technology? I don't really think so.
The guys who built racing bikes out of 531 back in the day knew what they were doing. Some of those bikes were terrific, despite being heavier than the modern aluminium or CF equivalents. And these days, one can equip them with modern tech. My own custom steel bike is made of columbus spirit. Great material. I removed most of the weight differential between it and a CF bike by specifying a carbon fork. It's the bike I use for jra and ultralight touring, so I have a Shimano 105 triple on it and a set of Mavic openpros with Hope hubs. Far from the lightest set-up I could achieve, but the bike weighs in at 19 lbs despite being a 62cm frame.
That's a long way from being a "boat anchor". Sure, it's heavier than my Giant TCR, but to a degree that is noticeable only on the climbs and at race pace. I'd happily race it in a crit and not feel at any disadvantage - possibly the reverse, because having been built specifically for me it handles slightly better that the TCR, my centre of gravity is fractionally further forward.
Outdated technology? I don't really think so.
#93
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It's a pity this thread has deteriorated in a "steel or not" discussion. Steel isn't, in itself, an outdated tech. Reynolds 953 stainless can give titanium a run for its money as far as strength/weight ratio is concerned, and with a top of the line groupset and decent wheels can come in at or close to the UCI minimum weight.
The guys who built racing bikes out of 531 back in the day knew what they were doing. Some of those bikes were terrific, despite being heavier than the modern aluminium or CF equivalents. And these days, one can equip them with modern tech. My own custom steel bike is made of columbus spirit. Great material. I removed most of the weight differential between it and a CF bike by specifying a carbon fork. It's the bike I use for jra and ultralight touring, so I have a Shimano 105 triple on it and a set of Mavic openpros with Hope hubs. Far from the lightest set-up I could achieve, but the bike weighs in at 19 lbs despite being a 62cm frame.
That's a long way from being a "boat anchor". Sure, it's heavier than my Giant TCR, but to a degree that is noticeable only on the climbs and at race pace. I'd happily race it in a crit and not feel at any disadvantage - possibly the reverse, because having been built specifically for me it handles slightly better that the TCR, my centre of gravity is fractionally further forward.
Outdated technology? I don't really think so.
The guys who built racing bikes out of 531 back in the day knew what they were doing. Some of those bikes were terrific, despite being heavier than the modern aluminium or CF equivalents. And these days, one can equip them with modern tech. My own custom steel bike is made of columbus spirit. Great material. I removed most of the weight differential between it and a CF bike by specifying a carbon fork. It's the bike I use for jra and ultralight touring, so I have a Shimano 105 triple on it and a set of Mavic openpros with Hope hubs. Far from the lightest set-up I could achieve, but the bike weighs in at 19 lbs despite being a 62cm frame.
That's a long way from being a "boat anchor". Sure, it's heavier than my Giant TCR, but to a degree that is noticeable only on the climbs and at race pace. I'd happily race it in a crit and not feel at any disadvantage - possibly the reverse, because having been built specifically for me it handles slightly better that the TCR, my centre of gravity is fractionally further forward.
Outdated technology? I don't really think so.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#94
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but I can't help but chuckling at all the 40/50/60 somethings in full kits, clipless, electric shifting, powertap, computers, carbon wheels on $3-8K wunder-bikes. I'll leave it at that, but leaving the coffee shop I'd rather ride on with Grant. My simple critique is the car culture mindset of the last century has found a new home, and it's in the upscale bike industry and it's gadgets.
BTW...I did I see you in that video "I'm On a Mother F&$%in' Bike"? If you haven't see it, check it out on YouTube.
#96
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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Specialized has the fancy 40th Anniversary Allez, but it's $4k for frame/fork/wool sweater/saddle/etc.
If you have a Jamis dealer anywhere nearby, they have some sweet production steel. Quest Elite is a damn fine bike. $1700-ish
#97
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You may have a Waterford dealer near your house as do I but you aren't likely to walk into the store today and wheel one off the floor. I have Moots dealers in my area as well but I'm not going to be able to pick up a frame from them today.
If all the experience you have with steel is with old flexy frames, it colors your attitude towards steel. Not everyone has ridden a high end steel bike. As for misinformation and myths, there are plenty out there about steel. "It's compliant" and "the ride is smoother" are two of the biggest ones, followed closely by "it can be fixed anywhere".
The point, like with the Waterford bikes, is that you can't walk into the store today and walk out with one. Soma, Salsa, Velo Orange and even Surly are bikes that you can't generally pull off the peg and go ride. I've never run across a store...and I've been in lots of bike shops...that had rows and rows of any of those steel bikes. You can order them but you aren't going to find them in stock. It's rather difficult to comparison shop for a bike that you can't ride until you buy it. It's difficult enough to walk into somewhere and order a Surly frame for $300 to $400, sight unseen. It's almost impossible to walk into a shop and plunk down $5000 for a complete bike that you won't see until it is done and probably can't send back if you are dissatisfied.
If all the experience you have with steel is with old flexy frames, it colors your attitude towards steel. Not everyone has ridden a high end steel bike. As for misinformation and myths, there are plenty out there about steel. "It's compliant" and "the ride is smoother" are two of the biggest ones, followed closely by "it can be fixed anywhere".
The point, like with the Waterford bikes, is that you can't walk into the store today and walk out with one. Soma, Salsa, Velo Orange and even Surly are bikes that you can't generally pull off the peg and go ride. I've never run across a store...and I've been in lots of bike shops...that had rows and rows of any of those steel bikes. You can order them but you aren't going to find them in stock. It's rather difficult to comparison shop for a bike that you can't ride until you buy it. It's difficult enough to walk into somewhere and order a Surly frame for $300 to $400, sight unseen. It's almost impossible to walk into a shop and plunk down $5000 for a complete bike that you won't see until it is done and probably can't send back if you are dissatisfied.
#98
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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Yep, down in Portland are many stores where you can buy nice off-the-rack steel.
#99
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On the positive, I just like old bikes for the, price and nostalgia. On the negative, I just do not like carbon fiber and suspensions. I believe that my rigid, steel and cromo frames will last longer, especially with my weight. I guess deep down I am a person that likes old ways. It is a thread that runs through a lot of my choices. If I ever get light enough or fast enough to need carbon fiber and modern I will try them out. Nothing against the new stuff.
#100
Mad bike riding scientist
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That's a whole other discussion...see the Grant Petersen loop above.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!