Bandera

OP: Did you actually read and think about the posts above in response to your initial inquiry?

Once more, and for the Final time:

1) You need to acquire a Team Shy Pinnalized/Specerallo replica with hydraulic shifting, electric brakes, and Telekinetic PowerMeter.
When the next model comes out buy that at full retail $, repeat seasonally.

B) A good fit, dedication to an individualized training program, lots of seat time and hard work are meaningless.

iii) You Know it's All About the Hardware, not individual fitness.

Don't let anyone tell you any different. You have that down already!

PS: "Back when" I was attending a USCF coaching clinic where the key note speaker opened his remarks with the statement:
"Not everyone is coachable, don't waste your time."
Thanks for reminding me of that.

-Bandera Out

stephtu

But surely you could now ... you are much lighter & in far better condition.

But the gains become quickly very marginal. There is a large difference between comfort hybrid and a road bike, because of the aerodynamic position, and better tires. But between the Secteur & the Roubaix, if you hooked up a power meter, I'd bet that if you ran identical body position & tires, you'd find your "greater performance" is almost entirely placebo effect.

Mostly you'd be spending money for almost no noticeable gain. The things that matter for speed are power, aerodynamics, and weight of bike& rider combined (mainly uphill). It's silly to buy stuff to make the bike lighter, for 1% difference of total weight even after spending 100s, 1000s, when you could easily make 10% weight difference just continuing on your current path, for free. Hard to justify being a weight weenie until one is <10% body fat. For aerodynamics, rider position matters a lot more than fancy wheels, you can fix that for free by flipping/lowering the stem. Maybe getting a longer stem also. But may have to wait until your gut shrinks more so that you aren't hitting it with your legs when bent over more.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, and want to get faster, I would first buy some book on training and a HRM if you aren't already using one. Then I'd do the program. At that point, maybe shell out for a power meter if you want to do power meter based training and contemplating racing. Then after actually doing some races, maybe at that point you are ready to buy stuff to make the bike faster, aero bars for TTs/tris, aero wheels etc.

But otherwise I'd save the money & spend it on good bike clothing, you'll need it as you get smaller, and you'll notice it far more than any bling you put on the bike.

Do you ride in any groups, have you joined a bike club or something like that? It's good to conquer upgrade-itis, riding with different people you quickly see both people with rather old bikes who are fast because they have 75k more miles in their legs than you in the past decade, and people with $5k+ Dura-ace equipped bikes & carbon aero wheels who are slow. It pounds it into your head that speed is 99.5% the rider, and that it's folly to try to buy speed, because you realize if you spend a lot, you maybe could gain 30 seconds up some long hill climb, but the problem is to catch the people you want to keep up with some day you need like 5 minutes. So might as well work on the 4.5 minutes first just working on the engine for free, and by the time you've made up that gap, you may not care about the 30 seconds any more.

MRT2

That is so true. I have ridden with several clubs, and people show up with all kinds of bikes from the latest cf super bike to older road bikes, to full touring, to hybrids, even an occasional mountain bike. There is a guy who rides a recumbent who smokes a lot of people riding cf racing bikes. A few years ago there was a guy showed up in pro team kit and a fancy bike who got tired halfway through the ride and went home. And another guy who hung with the main group on a comfort hybrid, wearing gym shorts and a t shirt.

brawlo

@Jarrett2 do you have any desire to race, or are you just wanting to get faster on your own or in group rides?

I've been back on the bike now for 7ish years and am about to start my 6th season of racing. If you want to get faster, then put the money towards racing. License, event entry, etc. There is no better way to gauge yourself, no better depth of knowledge, and truly no way to better push yourself for the purpose of gains. All the parts you are so trying to get people to point you towards are purely incremental gains kind of stuff. A fast rider will go fast on a steel framed bike with box rims and straight gauge spokes because they are just purely strong and fast. All the go fast bits are for when you are missing out on winning/placing "by that much". If you're in a bunch situation, all the aero stuff you can lay your hands on means nothing, unless you are at the front of that bunch, and then it's only for a few seconds until you roll through and someone else takes over. The only thing that I would say isn't necessarily on the incremental gains register is a 53/39 crankset. No way would I race with a compact. I have used 53/11 many many times in racing, both in bunches and solo with a decent tailwind. I've even eyed off the Shimano 55/42 crankset from time to time, because I've spun out the 53/11, but those occasions are fairly rare.

Although if you want to go and ride time trials, then of course, all of those go fast bits are relevant, but nothing does a better job than working on your riding position. Everything else is small fry compared to that. The helmet is next on that list, and if you're regularly road riding, then the Specialized Evade is near the top of that tree, and a skinsuit comes in a close third.

Having said all that, if you want to go and buy go fast bits because they make you want to ride more and they make your bike look awesome, then go out and do it. That's what the whole aftermarket bike parts industry is really about. If everyone just bought a bike off the floor and then only bought the parts they truly NEEDED, then the aftermarket bike parts industry would be a heck of a lot smaller than it is today!

Wilfred Laurier

the op should get a set of deep dish carbon bladed spoke race wheels

jsigone

Maybe a race Geo bike if you have the flexibility.

brawlo

Definitely a Mavic Comete rear disc!

Jarrett2

This has been my favorite post of the thread

Jarrett2

Just looking to get faster on my own. I understand more miles will be the way to do that ultimately, I just want to make sure that I'm not inadvertently slowing myself down from a lack of knowledge on bike technology. As I have been doing that for the last year and not knowing it. Trying to close that gap in knowledge basically so I know there are no other technology advantages I'm missing.

MRT2

Patience, Grasshopper. The faster you go, the more aerodynamics affects your speed. While you could spend thousands to get a more aerodynamic bike, currently the most un aerodynamic thing about your setup is you.

Celebrate what you have already done. You haven't even experienced a setback, yet. (hint. Those will happen, too)

indyfabz

You should see his shop. He has a separate machine for each part of the frame. One of them is a lathe from the Department of the Navy that was likely once used to make shells. I have never seen a bad looking Engin. Last month we had some good laughs talking about paint jobs. He refuses to do two-color fades because they usually look terrible. Klein was the world leader in bad two-color fades. He once told a customer that the frame would explode if it were painted in a two-color fade.

I don't really like silver bikes, so I plan to get color. He was explaining to me that there is this ceramic coating you can bake onto the frame and fork. He says the lime green looks awesome. Wonder how much it costs.

youcoming

I'm going to chime in even though I'm no expert just my persoanl experiences. I orgionally started riding in 2006 on a hybrid and moved to an aluminum roadbike with Shimano 105 and R500 wheels. There was a huge difference between those two bikes in all aspects. A few years later I bought a 5 series Madone with Sram Force and Bontrager RXL wheels, which I later switched to Dura Ace 7850 50mm wheels. There was a slight difference on flat ground speed but nothing crazy. It did however improve my climbing and sprinting town signs with friends, overall average speed was noticable though. Some will argue with me but that's just what it was. After that I bought a Parlee Z5i with Shimano Dura Ace 11 speed mechanical and Mavic Carbone Ultimate tubulars. I will say the DA groupset blows me away even after over 14000km as for differnces again small if any difference on the flats, slightly better at climbing and sprinting but this bike shines in the handling and comfort department. I'll take corneres at speeds with this bike I would never have with previous bikes, I can't say if that's the bike or the wheels. As for comfort this bike is a dream to ride and thats with super stiff wheels. I still have my origional roadbike and still ride it from time to time so it doesn't feel left out and it feels like I have to work like a dog to get same performance. As for those who say a $12G bike makes no difference, I would argue that and I mean on a long term basis not I took a high end superbike on a 20k test ride and it's no different then my $1G bike. Saying all that I would argue a $3500 bike with decent wheels is the sweet spot and if I was a more thrifty person that's what I would be riding. And to the OP, wheels is where you will feel the biggest gain.

Black wallnut 

Last night I was able to ride an Specialized S-Works Tarmac with Di2. I put out max effort on a strava segment that is 1.3 miles long with a few rolling hills plus some turns linked here. I was able to improve my best time by only 2 seconds. It felt much faster than that. I did have to brake a bit going into the first corner so as to not run over the Specialized reps and the last corner due to oncoming traffic. The bottom line is the bike I was riding cost 5x my Roubaix and netted me 2 seconds over 1.3 miles while my heart rate averaged 3 bpm above threshold and peaked at my max hr to date.

mcmoose

All kidding aside, Jarrett2, you've reached the point of diminishing returns in terms of getting faster via bike upgrades. Take Black wallnut's example: that 2 seconds margin that he gained with a 5X more expensive bike would be HUGE if he were racing. As a non-racer, well, it's pretty hard to justify that expense based on performance (enjoyment is another matter, and people get to spend their money where they like).

Just keeping pedaling… you will get faster, and gain endurance, and gain bike-handling skills… a pretty good return on your investment. It's just that you're investing time rather than money.

And, sure, if you see some bling that will make you happy and motivate you to keep riding, grab it! We only live once.

Wilfred Laurier

great point

also
riding the bike will eventually lead to needing new parts
or a new bike
and the best time to upgrade
is when you were buying the part anyways
not when you have a perfectly functioning
and already fast
bike

Jarrett2

That's great info. What made you take that bike for a spin?

Did you take it on a longer ride? Were there any speed differences there? I just ask because it seems like most could make similar bikes goes the same speed over 1.3 miles. But over the course of 20, 30, 40 miles, the differences might show up. For example, I can't go any faster peak speed on my Roubaix than I can on my Secteur, but over the same 20 mile route, I'm faster on average on the Roubaix for some reason. That's what I'm trying to find out.

Yeah, that's essentially what I was wondering when I started the thread. I had chosen slower bikes for my first 4 bikes. It just so happened that my 5th bike was faster than those and apparently it is as fast as any other as well according to this forum. That's fine. Makes me feel better about my purchase.

You don't learn if you don't ask the question. I know when I post on bikeforums.net that I am going to take some kicks in the teeth just due to the nature of the user base... but I can handle it. I've never let the anonymous Internet bullies keep me from asking a question even if they just use it as an opportunity to be an ass to someone anonymously. I don't mind asking a "dumb" question in order to gain knowledge.

Thanks again to those that took the high road and helped answer this question

Black wallnut 

@Jarrett2 the ride last night was 19.7 miles long on the S-Works. It felt fast and responsive the entire ride and that was with me going into it in a fatigued state. Several times I slowed down on purpose so it is hard to tell if I had more speed gains or if it was just that new bike feel. I choose that one because I decided to test a bike rather late and that was the 54 they had out. I wanted to try a Roubiax SL4 with Di2 as that is a more likely future purchase for me although I have also wanted to take a true race bike for a spin. I was mostly comfortable on the bike but with the stem flipped and slammed the drops were a bit too much for extended periods of time. A little over three minutes I was fine though. Although here is where bike fit matters, had the stem been raised a bit so as to flatten my back but keep my belly away from my rising thighs then I might have been able to go just as fast with a lower heartrate due to having full lung capacity. Further weight loss and I could go with lower bars, for now it just does not add efficiency IMHO.

For real world comparison it is hard to beat Strava segments like the one I used. Both were done in close to the same conditions and both were nearly all out efforts. The funny thing is my weight is 17 pounds less now than it was when I was just 2 seconds slower and the difference in bike weight is at least another 5. I think this backs up what I have been saying the entire thread; first engine, then rider weight then becoming aero on bike trumps parts swapping.

Jarrett2

Oh I thought you said it was just 1.3 miles in the last post. 19.7 is plenty of time to compare.

Yep, it seems to back up your premise. Well at least that at the Roubaix level, things don't get a lot faster after that.

big chainring 

Carnauba wax. Makes my bikes exceptionally fast.

LGHT

Hey that's what I'm riding and I do go really fast for about a minute on a downhill slope, but thinking about downgrading because the 2500' of incline in the 30 miles is a beast to grind out.

Black wallnut 

The Strava segment was 1.3 miles in the middle of a 19.7 mile ride. There are really too many variables to try to measure speed gains over the course of a whole ride unless it is a time trail course with the same weather conditions each time. For example last night I slowed down on the way out so as to not drop a friend. There were other times I slowed down on the ride. Fitness gains and weight loss pay off on longer rides with greater speed overall and or less effort. Put differently I believe I was able to capitalize on the capabilities of the race bike only because of my fitness, Less fitness and it would not have felt or been faster.

bobbyl1966

My steel road bike is weight around 27 pounds. Crank i have 53/39 and 9 speeds cassete 12-25. How i make my bike faster. In flats and in hills too.

ChargerDawg

Only ride downhill...

it is the engine, then the equipment.

Physics is physics. Put 500 hp in a 2000 lb car and it will go fast. Make it aerodynamic and it will go really fast.

Willbird

"Fast" gets complicated in a hurry too :-)...because only rarely are we talking about ultimate top speed, often it even includes turning left over and over again on a short oval track with a dirt track surface :-).

Bill

Sullalto

Gotta be a $12,000 rider to really appreciate a $12,000 bike. I might like it more than my $1000 bike, but I probably wouldn't discern a difference between a 5k bike and the 12k.


As for buying speed, I believe(but I'm not certain) that wheels make more of a difference than frame. So buy nice wheels first. Plus, you can take them with you when you get a new bike later!

Like somebody else mentioned, if you're 5 minutes behind, don't worry about the 30s of equipment. Work on that 4:30.

PLUS, by the time you're only 30s behind...you'll be able to buy 35 seconds instead of 30.




When I was having a bad day last week, I looked at my first strava ride, then did the same route again.