indyfabz

Explain where you got that idea, with citation to legal authority.

indyfabz

LOL! Come to Philly and you will see otherwise. After this winter, the hardest part of walking around is crossing the street and trying to avoid pot holes wider and deeper than Crater Lake.

rumrunn6

sorry, I don't understand your question. in this area (technically) they can ticket you for jaywalking (link provided earlier) but one time when I called the local police station about a couple of women with strollers standing in the road chatting, on a blind curve, the officer said there was nothing he could do cuz they had the right of way, even if they were idiots about to be hit by a car, it was still on me not to hit them with my car

t x

Yes, you can be ticketed for jaywalking but a pedestrian always has the right of way because they are the more vulnerable user of the road. The means by which they got in the road is irrelevant. Also, this: The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking" - Vox

KonAaron Snake 

Let's get a few things straightened out...the driver has a responsibility to avoid collisions, and there is a general burden on everyone to take action to avoid accidents. The pedestrian does NOT have a right of way at all times in my state/municipality, and I doubt he has one in yours. Any overarching comments applying these ideas to all of us will likely fall short since these are state and LOCAL laws. Boston has ped friendly laws considerably beyond what we have.

From a matter of process, accidents are settled out and the fault rarely matters. The more vulnerable user often does enjoy extra protection as a matter of process, but saying they have a permanent right of way is inaccurate.

rmfnla

No kidding; talk about a stupid law!

Here in L.A. pedestrians are total ******** about it, walking slowly, pausing in front of your car. The irony is most of them drive cars, too; they just have to take their turn being a butthead...

rmfnla

Here in L.A. the pedestrian always has the right of way, even when crossing illegally...

KonAaron Snake 

Directly from your code:


21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way toa pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk orwithin any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwiseprovided in this chapter. (b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty ofusing due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenlyleave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the pathof a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in amarked or unmarked crosswalk. (c) The driver of a vehicle approaching a pedestrian within anymarked or unmarked crosswalk shall exercise all due care and shallreduce the speed of the vehicle or take any other action relating tothe operation of the vehicle as necessary to safeguard the safety ofthe pedestrian. (d) Subdivision (b) does not relieve a driver of a vehicle fromthe duty of exercising due care for the safety of any pedestrianwithin any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at anintersection.


21953. Whenever any pedestrian crosses a roadway other than bymeans of a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing, if apedestrian tunnel or overhead crossing serves the place where thepedestrian is crossing the roadway, such pedestrian shall yield theright-of-way to all vehicles on the highway so near as to constitutean immediate hazard. This section shall not be construed to mean that a markedcrosswalk, with or without a signal device, cannot be installed wherea pedestrian tunnel or overhead crossing exists.

I would not interpret that as pedestrian permanent right of way. I haven't read how code is enforced and interpreted by your courts...but the concepts above are exactly on point with what I described earlier.

t x

It appears you're correct (much to my surprise, pedestrian right of way is considered common knowledge here.) Pedestrians do not have right of way if crossing at e.g. the middle of a block. They do have right of way at any intersection, whether it is marked as a crosswalk or not, unless prohibited by a signal. That being said, in terms of liability, once a pedestrian is in the roadway, it becomes the drivers responsibility to exercise "due care".

EDIT: https://www.whittierdailynews.com/gen...e-right-of-way

KonAaron Snake 

From a liability standpoint it's unlikely to matter. It's going to be settled out by insurance. If the person isn't insured, you're unlikely to get any money since they probably don't have any. Insurance coverages and laws vary by state.

Buffalo Buff

I know down here a lot of times bike paths = a part of the road that is 100% littered with rocks, shattered glass and other debris.

Not every bike path here is like that, but some are and I avoid them. I probably piss off some drivers doing that, but oh well, I have my reasons. Pissed off drivers is better than flat tires IMO.

KonAaron Snake 

Or there's finding an alternate road. Or getting armadillos.

Buffalo Buff

I'm not going to turn around and find another road every time I encounter debris in the bike lane. That's dumb.

SlowJoeCrow

On a related note, why do people walk in the bike path instead of the sidewalk? My commute includes a stretch of road with elevated concrete bike paths next to the road and a sidewalk separated from the bike lane by a green strip. This seems like optimal separation but I still encounter people walking in the bike path instead of the perfectly good sidewalk 18" away? Is it laziness, stupidity or arrogance?

indyfabz

Well that is completely incorrect. You can't simply walk out into the street in front of a car, get hit and say "But I had the right of way!" That's what makes me scratch my head when I read about a motorist leaving the scene after hitting a pedestrian when it sounds like it was the pedestrian's fault (e.g., darted out in front of traffic). Leaving the scene is, in and of itself, a distinct crime in many/most jurisdictions even if the initial accident is not your fault.

And, BTW, you can be cited for jaywalking. John Street, the mayor of Philadelphia, was once in L.A. for a conference of mayors and received a ticket for jaywalking. He tried to talk his way out of it by saying "But I am the mayor of Philly." Didn't work.

halcyon100

In California, I believe it is illegal for pedestrians to be in the bike lane on the road, unless, they are on a road that does not have sidewalks. I looked this up awhile back because I was so frustrated with joggers in the bike lane. I think the main reason they do it is because they think asphalt is better than concrete for their knees... I think that the sidewalk is often better than the pothole-filled street for my carbon fiber bike and for my aging joints - but I don't go riding on the sidewalk for this reason...

I think it is suicidal for anyone to be walking or jogging in the bike lane. There are tons of strong roadies on aero bikes in the SF bay area that can easily ride 25mph on flats and 50mph+ on downhills. In my mind, walking or jogging in the bike lane is not much safer than walking or jogging in the lane of car traffic. I wouldn't do it, even if someone paid me. I also think that all these years of signage telling pedestrians that everyone in the world must yield to them at all times has created an unsafe, entitlement mentality. I have seen moms running with headphones on while pushing strollers on the MUP with one or two dogs attached, on retractible leashes... How do you safely get around that? I think there should be a yellow line painted in the middle of all MUPs with signage telling all users to stay to the right. And there should be occasional enforcement of this, just like how it works on the road with cars. I think cyclists need to start being more assertive about their rights - especially in regard to MUP's and fire roads (for mountain bikers).

kickstart

Not having the correct equipment for conditions one is likely to encounter isn't exactly a wise decision either.

kickstart

How would one be "assertive about their rights"?

Yell at them to get off the MUT? Punish them with a close pass? Throw something at them?.................Sound familiar?

rhm

People walking in the street, people walking in the bike lane, of course I don't know why they do it. Sometimes the reason is obvious, sometimes it is not. But the effect, if there are enough of them doing it, is to slow traffic down. And that's generally a good thing.

Walking is one thing. But then there's the people standing on the road, or in the bike path, waiting for the light to change, so they can continue on their way. I find my self weaving my way through these people as I navigate turns on the CitiBike in Manhattan. It's like, what gives, people? You're not saving yourself any time by standing in the street. But again, it is usually obvious why they do it; the crowd of people waiting to cross the street often takes up the whole sidewalk, and the only remaining space is in front of them.

Recently there's a new development: people standing in the road, waiting for the green, as above; but now they're multitasking. Texting. Out to lunch. Oy. Again, yeah, I know why they're doing it. Doesn't make it a smart thing to do, though!

mgw4jc

Love it. More cyclists need air horns too so they can blow those when buzzing a ped.

I think signage is about all you can hope for. Even if you stop and politely request they use the walkway for their own safety will likely put them on the defensive. If ticked off, they could easily retaliate with a handful of tacks dropped on the path.

gregf83 

None of those. Most likely they found themselves on a paved path and didn't think anything of it. I did the same thing while in Munich recently. Didn't realize they had separate walking and bike paths. Even after I knew, occasionally I'd find myself walking with someone and talking and not notice which path I was on.

There seem to be an awful lot of thin-skinned cyclists quick to assume the world is filled with lazy, stupid and arrogant pedestrians. Maybe cyclists are not much different than motorists after all...

unterhausen

we are the same people, for the most part. eta: why are the biggest ******** the ones with a bike on the back of their car?

snow_echo_NY

yup to this. moved here about the same time you did, but in south brooklyn. this happens primarily in downtown brooklyn a lot. it's crazy town.

i've been seeing this more and more. it's annoying to see b/c they just make us all look bad to other users of the road. augh.

KonAaron Snake 

I can see how in a country that you live in walking in a bike lane (marked with little bicycles and arrows), a street and a sidewalk could be confusing. If you're incredibly drunk or 5.

gregf83 

I can understand your point of view if you live in a dump with no tourists or visitors.