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Bells. Again.

Old 04-17-15, 11:56 PM
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MUPs are just full of people who are going to do random things and cyclists need to slow down and be on the alert. And people at work think I am weird when I say I prefer the road with a 3 ft wide bike lane, not much traffic and 35 mph speed limit to the MUP. Joggers and other cyclists seem to know the rules of the MUP and do the right thing when they hear a bell or ON YOUR LEFT. When I am walking on the mup and someone behind me signals me I usually raise my hand to acknowlege that I hear them.

On the portion of my commute that I am on the MUP and I leave for work late, I meet up with a group of older people who go out for their 10 am walk. The always walk spread across the entire mup. When I yell ON YOUR LEFT, many of them stop and turn around and look. One woman told me to get a bell. But I still think if they heard the bell, they would still stop and turn around and look. Since ON YOUR LEFT seems to be lost on these folks I just yell COMING THROUGH and they seem to be happier with that.

I see a good number of people walking like they do on the auto roads: facing traffic. I've just learned to slow down and be prepared for anything. Bells are OK for joggers and other cyclists, who seem to know the rules of the MUP.
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Old 04-18-15, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
Unfortunately, "on your left" is just bad phrasing. All the person often hears is "something something LEFT!".

Have had something similar happen to me more than once, most people stay where they are, but a few people legitimately think I'm asking them to move to the left.
I strongly agree that this is what is happening. "some words LEFT" is just a bad passing phrase, it should never have been adopted.

The trouble is that in nearly all other situations, when a direction word is given, that is the direction we are expected to turn. In this one situation, the direction word is given and it is to be avoided. There is a lack of constancy in the use of the direction word to normal situations.

A direction word should not be being used.
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Old 04-18-15, 09:02 AM
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You know, I have a rather nice bell on my hybrid but a lot of times people don't pay attention to it. I usually go into the grass and around without disturbing the pedestrians.
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Old 04-18-15, 09:32 AM
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I like riding MUPs, as there are less cars to contend with.

The bell seems to work best for me!

I think the sound of the bell kind of puts the onus on them to do something, even if it's just to look!
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Old 04-18-15, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert C
I strongly agree that this is what is happening. "some words LEFT" is just a bad passing phrase, it should never have been adopted.

The trouble is that in nearly all other situations, when a direction word is given, that is the direction we are expected to turn. In this one situation, the direction word is given and it is to be avoided. There is a lack of constancy in the use of the direction word to normal situations.

A direction word should not be being used.

Yeah, I mean it's originally good intentions, but the fact that you yell out a phrase that makes a small number of people put themselves in **more** danger than if you had stayed quite is crazy.

Combine this with people with headphones, and I don't say anything passing unless I've slowed and need them to move. I just give them an extra person worth of space and go around them.
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Old 04-18-15, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc40a
............ a lot of people don't know the difference between right and left. Not that they don't know, but it takes them way too long to think about it, and sometimes if rushed, they get it wrong.
+1 A lot of people want to blame pedestrians or motorists for not paying attention being neglectful. But in reality... many daily activity's challenge normal people. It doesn't take much to put most people off their game just enough to cause an accident.
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Old 04-19-15, 09:12 AM
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To me this is a natural consequence of mixing pedestrians and bicycles and it should be avoided. However, you're not always going to get the ideal and you have to deal with what you have.

Many of the MUPS here have separate paths for cyclists and pedestrians but there are still places where they come together and there can be problems in busy areas. And there are those who don't realize there are two paths and end up on the wrong one.

Some of the recreational paths have 10 mph speed limits which is ridiculous and not often enforced. There was a plan to remove limit and instead let the cyclists determine what was prudent and safe. A huge pushback ensued and countless stories of bad collisions were related to the powers that be. They elected to keep the speed limit. The problem is that some people can't be trusted to ride at safe speeds when there are pedestrians around. It's too bad. Because of this situation I often choose the street instead.

But that has it's downsides too. If I had a dime for every person that told me how much they are bothered by cyclists riding in the street when there is a perfectly good MUP running in the same direction. I've had drivers pull up along side and yell at me to get on the path. It is truly like we can't win.

All we can do is be mindful and courteous whether we are on the street or on a MUP. Stuff is going to happen that's not our fault. People are going to mad just because we are there.

However, for me incidents have been few and far between. Most drivers and other MUP users extend the same courtesy I extend to them. The trick is that when something does eventually happen, to deal with it as best we can, then put it behind us.
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Old 04-19-15, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by matimeo
I think someone else said it, but it doesn't hurt to announce your presence way in advance. Either that or you need to be prepared to stop. I belt out a "bicycle, on your left" well before I get to the people on the path, and then usually look back to see. By then I've already moved to the left of the trail so they usually get the drift and shift to the right. That doesn't stop some people from being oblivious, but that's not my problem. I just slow down.
I have given up on calling out because of the unpredictable response. Bells seem to evoke a more reliable response, but ringing way in advance allows time for the ped to hear, take a look, and then react. Once they react, you know how to pass them. Also, you really need to keep your speed down for the same reason: to not only allow the ped to react, but also for you to react to the peds reaction.
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Old 04-20-15, 08:33 AM
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Since I bought this bell:

Spurcycle Black Bell. More potent and more streamlined. Just better.

I have a 100% positive response from people moving out of the way and I have to contribute it to the sound it emits. Its not an annoying ding its like a nice long church bell.....
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Old 04-20-15, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
+1 A lot of people want to blame pedestrians or motorists for not paying attention being neglectful. But in reality... many daily activity's challenge normal people. It doesn't take much to put most people off their game just enough to cause an accident.
This. ^^

also "on your left" can be confusing for a lot of people who are not familiar with the lingo. someone here on the forum recommended using "Bicycle behind you" - it's short enough to get the message to the ped and there's no mistaking it. gives peds time to move out of the way esp. if you announce yourself early enough/loudly enough. i've used it and i find it works well. i use "on your left" with cyclists but one cyclist was angry i passed them or didn't like the language i used (maybe i should have said "I'm passing you on your left"). in any case. i think "bicycle behind you" works well for peds.
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Old 04-20-15, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by shoemakerpom
Since I bought this bell:

Spurcycle Black Bell. More potent and more streamlined. Just better.

I have a 100% positive response from people moving out of the way and I have to contribute it to the sound it emits. Its not an annoying ding its like a nice long church bell.....
Saw the video and heard the bell. Nice...but FIFTY BUCKS???? For a BELL???? REALLY**********?
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Old 04-20-15, 11:56 AM
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I miss that white rock lake trail i use to live right near valley view park.

Ive had good luck on the iron horse trail here, except a few idiots, i just the say to them to pay attention or pull their heads from somewhere as i pass.

I guess i prefer yelling to bells.

T
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Old 04-20-15, 12:20 PM
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I take offense of the implication that the bicyclist should take full responsibility. It is a MUP, Multi Use Path. Like most things in life, if you choose to use it, you must take some responsibility, regardless if you are the bicyclist or the Ped.

The common notification is "on your left". If you have used a MUP, you have heard it. What question is there about it? You have also heard bells. What they often do is get someone's attention who often turns to look (the good). If they are tuned into their Ixxx then they won't hear you (the bad) as they wander all over the path.

My experience with the Crane bell is about 50% effective on people (not kids) for a number of reasons. Doesn't work on cars. If $50 is too much for a bell, use it to buy the HORNIT. 120 db of high frequency, ear-piercing sound. Everyone nearby will look and be witness to the idiot behavior of the person you are focused on, car driver or ped.
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Old 04-21-15, 04:19 AM
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I took a chance after I seen someone with it and I have to say its a beautiful thing. It kind of reminds me of Paul components it has the hand crafted look and like I said the sound is like no other. After I got one my brother bought one and now my son wants one. I am assuming the $50 is because they take time to make since they are handcrafted mine took 4 months to get.
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Old 04-21-15, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Matariki
I have given up on calling out because of the unpredictable response. Bells seem to evoke a more reliable response, but ringing way in advance allows time for the ped to hear, take a look, and then react. Once they react, you know how to pass them. Also, you really need to keep your speed down for the same reason: to not only allow the ped to react, but also for you to react to the peds reaction.
My experience exactly.
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Old 04-21-15, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom
Saw the video and heard the bell. Nice...but FIFTY BUCKS???? For a BELL???? REALLY**********?
I have to admit, I have one, though I think I paid something like $35 for the cheaper silver version when it was Kickstarter campaign. It is an overengineered, artisanal, hipsterish sort of thing, but it does work quite well. I now have a second bike and need a second bell, but don't think I can cope with $39 plus $8 shipping (since when does it cost $8 to ship a bell that weighs a few ounces?).
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Old 04-22-15, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
Pedestrians are supposed to walk facing traffic, even stupid ones...
On the road, yes, but not on a MUP (at least in the case of every one on which I've ever ridden). There, the general rule for everyone is typically "stay to the right unless passing on the left," whether walking, jogging, skating, cycling, etc., hence the use of bells and announcing one's approach.

I've had my own difficulties with getting people to understand/respond to "on your left," with the common exception of other cyclists. I have found that pedestrians usually respond well to "bike on your left" (as it's a bit more specific) or if I'm riding more slowly, I may say "pardon me/passing to your left." It seems like half the time when I use my bell, people turn around and look at the ground as if they think they've just dropped a coin or something.

Last edited by Lanovran; 04-22-15 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 04-22-15, 08:38 AM
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Sometimes there is just no winning. In a ped heavy section of the mup, I'd slowed down to single digit speeds. Dad saw me, pulled his kids out of the way. I give him a little wave, move to the far left. And hit his kid, who decided to turn around and rush across right into me, without looking.

the mup is super convenient for my commute, but given that I commute in the early afternoon, I don't use it on weekends.

its amazing at night though. I get out of work at 10pm ish. I'll go days without seeing anybody on my night commute, ~8 miles of empty, freshly paved concrete to myself. When I do see people, they're likely fishers right on the water, or other cyclists-and virtually always ones steady enough to be predictable. Besides, the headlight announces me thoroughly enough people always make room to pass.

Another cyclist and I had a good laugh at each other over winter. I could go weeks without seeing anybody at night during winter. except this one guy. Saw him every night. We were both like, 'what the hell, you're crowding my empty bike path, dude.'

Last edited by Sullalto; 04-22-15 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 04-22-15, 08:47 AM
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I don't care what kind of device you use for alerting pedestrians...bells, horns, a loud mouth, fireworks, etc...you should always be prepared for a pedestrian to act in an unpredictable manner and proceed accordingly. Yes, you should have applied the brakes but you should have slowed and waited until the (clueless) pedestrian figured out what you were planning doing. If she went left, then pass her on the right instead of going further around her on the left.

As to bells, I only have one bike with a bell. I've never found it to have any effect on how pedestrians move when I ring it. They will still more in every conceivable direction. As I said above, I wait until they sort themselves out before I pass.
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Old 04-22-15, 12:27 PM
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Sometimes I like the rain. No pedestrians.
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Old 04-22-15, 12:39 PM
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I found a large two tone bell at Guy's yesterday.... do want!

- Andy
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Old 04-22-15, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
Unfortunately, "on your left" is just bad phrasing. All the person often hears is "something something LEFT!".

Have had something similar happen to me more than once, most people stay where they are, but a few people legitimately think I'm asking them to move to the left.

I agree with this. I'm a biker and ever *I* am surprised when someone yells "on your left" from behind me. I don't swerve, but I usually jerk my head around to look. I personally respond much better to a bell than I do to a voice.
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Old 04-22-15, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
I agree with this. I'm a biker and ever *I* am surprised when someone yells "on your left" from behind me. I don't swerve, but I usually jerk my head around to look. I personally respond much better to a bell than I do to a voice.
Yeah, it's a pretty terrible phrase. Well meant, but effectively pretty terrible.

I keep looking for a device that would make a low but relatively pleasant sound that I could put on my bike. Like the more pleasant hubs sound when they coast, or a fishing reel makes when a fish is pulling on the line. So people walking (who weren't wearing earphones) could hear me behind them. Haven't found one yet though, but I think it would be about the best solution.
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Old 04-22-15, 01:56 PM
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The best tip I saw is from here. Tune the rear brake to squeal really loudly. Then yell 'no brakes!'. Enjoy your clean corridor.
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Old 04-22-15, 02:34 PM
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If we must yell something, maybe it would be better to say, "Coming up from behind." That way, we won't sound like we're asking them to do anything. Chances are, the only thing they'll hear is our last word, and "behind" doesn't sound like "move left," or anything of the sort.
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