Friendly stupid people are pathetic
07-13-15, 11:57 AM
#26
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When I'm committed to waiting ('cause someone else has the R.O.W) I point directly at the driver.
They start moving so fast it's like they're in a windup car.
They start moving so fast it's like they're in a windup car.
07-13-15, 02:44 PM
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Since you you kind of have to accept some stupidity out there, friendly is better than not.
07-13-15, 02:45 PM
#28
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07-13-15, 03:03 PM
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I recently heard someone refer to these too-polite people as "niceholes". At stop signs I just stubbornly refuse to go. I've had standoffs go on for quite a while until the drivers finally give up.
The worst is when one driver in a four-lane road decides to stop to let you cross the street, as people in the lane next to them blast by. That's a case where someone is actually luring you into a deadly situation.
The worst is when one driver in a four-lane road decides to stop to let you cross the street, as people in the lane next to them blast by. That's a case where someone is actually luring you into a deadly situation.
07-13-15, 03:11 PM
#30
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Assuming that your 4-way stop intersections are lightly traveled like mine, what I will generally do when faced with this situation is immediately turn right. If I am at six o'clock and the driver is at three o'clock, this allows me to slip in behind him and I have not had to stop at all. I then just follow him through the intersection (if my destination route is nine o'clock) or turn right again for a twelve o'clock destination route.
Obviously this works all the way around the clock - it gives the driver/drivers at the other points in the intersection a clear signal they I don't need to account for me in going through the intersection, keeps me moving at a faster rate than stopping and playing the "after you" game, and, most importantly, allows them to get back to their texting and phone calls with a minimum of delay.
Obviously this works all the way around the clock - it gives the driver/drivers at the other points in the intersection a clear signal they I don't need to account for me in going through the intersection, keeps me moving at a faster rate than stopping and playing the "after you" game, and, most importantly, allows them to get back to their texting and phone calls with a minimum of delay.
07-13-15, 03:17 PM
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"Luke, the Self Righteousness Force Field is strong among this tribe of absolutely perfect, polite all-knowing cycling commuters. Try to resist the smugness."
Because, obviously, absolutely nobody might have had their tongue in cheek at all here ...
Because, obviously, absolutely nobody might have had their tongue in cheek at all here ...
Last edited by geehue; 07-13-15 at 03:20 PM.
07-13-15, 03:23 PM
#32
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But if you had a sniffer for emotional waves, it might sound like this.
No, you go ahead. No, YOU go ahead. Really, I'd like to wait - please go - I can't feel safe like this. Can't you SEE my arms waving you? I'm getting tired of this. You've got GOBS of room you wimp - get moving and show some appreciation for my extreme generosity. Please can this just end somehow. Are you one of those damn cyclists with some kind of attitude? GOOD GRIEF.
07-13-15, 03:28 PM
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I do this frequently. Another tactic is too slow way down to a crawl as I'm approaching a 4-way stop to give time for the cagers to clear out of it before I arrive.
07-13-15, 03:42 PM
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No, you go ahead. No, YOU go ahead. Really, I'd like to wait - please go - I can't feel safe like this. Can't you SEE my arms waving you? I'm getting tired of this. You've got GOBS of room you wimp - get moving and show some appreciation for my extreme generosity. Please can this just end somehow. Are you one of those damn cyclists with some kind of attitude? GOOD GRIEF.
07-13-15, 03:48 PM
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The key is not to hesitate. Even if the other driver has the right of way, if he is clearly waiting for you then don't make him wait. Being cautious and being hesitant is NOT the same thing, and in fact are polar opposites on the safety spectrum. On the road you should always check thoroughly to ensure the way is safe, then when you know the way is open you should always move quickly and without hesitation, focused on the task with the secure knowledge that you already checked things out ahead of time. This applies to everything from lane changes to stops, but in this case the way it works is that if you don't take the chance to move when it's given to you, the driver may end up "giving up" on letting you go, at the same time that you "give up" on convincing him to go... thus causing you both to move into the intersection at the same time. So don't hesitate. If somebody waits for you, you might be thinking "just go already!", but don't argue about it and take what he gives you. Even if it is annoying.... 
07-13-15, 04:44 PM
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OK, maybe your comment qualifies, but not the rest.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-13-15 at 04:49 PM.
07-13-15, 04:57 PM
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Of course I can drink anytime I chose. But the public doesn't know that. And it avoids any conflict. I feel safer when everyone knows and goes by the established rules myself. But why fight against "niceness".
07-13-15, 05:19 PM
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There might have been some exaggeration of the annoyance factor for effect, but the OP does identify a legitimate phenomenon that I and others have faced -- when a motorist with right of way stops, are they ceding you right of way? If you take right of way and (a) you were wrong about the driver's intentions, or (b) the driver changes his/her mind because you didn't move quickly enough, then the consequences could be pretty nasty AND you could end up at-fault for not properly granting the right of way.
07-13-15, 06:21 PM
#39
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There might have been some exaggeration of the annoyance factor for effect, but the OP does identify a legitimate phenomenon that I and others have faced -- when a motorist with right of way stops, are they ceding you right of way? If you take right of way and (a) you were wrong about the driver's intentions, or (b) the driver changes his/her mind because you didn't move quickly enough, then the consequences could be pretty nasty AND you could end up at-fault for not properly granting the right of way.
Right-of-way is defined by law, and you cannot give it away.
If you get involved in an accident and someone else had the ROW, you are at fault. Period.
07-13-15, 08:16 PM
#40
Prefers Cicero
In all honesty, one reason a lot of drivers don't know what to do around bikes, is because so many cyclists are idiots or inconsiderate.
I've told this before and it happened twice. I arrive at a 4-way stop intersection just after a car that is coming from the right. He has the right of way, but hesitates, maybe thinking I'm not going to stop, or tries to wave me through. I stand my ground, waiting for him to go first, as the law requires. Finally he starts hesitantly forward, and then just as he does, a cyclist coming from behind me blows through the intersection right in front of his bumper, causing him to jam on the brakes.
I've told this before and it happened twice. I arrive at a 4-way stop intersection just after a car that is coming from the right. He has the right of way, but hesitates, maybe thinking I'm not going to stop, or tries to wave me through. I stand my ground, waiting for him to go first, as the law requires. Finally he starts hesitantly forward, and then just as he does, a cyclist coming from behind me blows through the intersection right in front of his bumper, causing him to jam on the brakes.
07-13-15, 08:22 PM
#41
Prefers Cicero
The problem with waving someone through, is that not everybody else on the road is party to the arrangement; so you may think you're being kind, but you may actually be inviting them to crash with someone else who didn't know you were encouraging them to cross out of turn. And even if it was their turn, they may interpret the wave as meaning "all clear" or may want to politely move quickly to get out of your way, and may go without checking all around again. I think it's much better to stop, look down, and make them take responsibility for their own decisions.
Last edited by cooker; 07-13-15 at 08:36 PM.
07-13-15, 10:54 PM
#43
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Taking a drink from the water bottle pretty much always gets the car to go for me. If I find myself doing this more than once at a particular intersection, I will try to take a different route next time, if possible. Fortunately for me, Oakland has a lot of bike routes/lanes that direct bike traffic away from the busy streets and intersections.
07-14-15, 12:22 AM
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Hmmm, I think I might be missing something here. If a motorist waves me through I take it as a polite gesture and then check if I can safely go, then go. If it is not safe to go then obv I don't go. If that means that the motorist has to wait much longer for me to go than so be it. He/she is the one that gave up their ROW to me I don't think there are any take-backs! This is my m.o. and it seems to work well for me. No stand-offs, no confusion. If there is yet another motorist who I am unsure of I will wait to see what they do - if they too wave me through then great! But if they go before me I will check back with the first one who waved me through to make we're still good. I'm still fairly new to commuting so please if I am doing something VERY wrong here please let me know! To me, if it's safe to go then why not?
I'm still fairly new to commuting so please if I am doing something VERY wrong here please let me know! To me, if it's safe to go then why not?
07-14-15, 06:36 AM
#45
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I've only got one T intersection that is a 3-way stop where motorists may do this for me. The vertical part of the "T" is the exit for a neighborhood development, so in the morning all traffic is pretty much going out that way. If I see a car from the opposite direction looking to hit the stop sign anytime slightly before or at the same time as me, I'll wave them through first, trying to make it obvious that I prefer to fall in behind them. Plus, they are turning right and I'm turning left so they can get through and out of the intersection quicker than me.
07-14-15, 06:44 AM
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Hmmm, I think I might be missing something here. If a motorist waves me through I take it as a polite gesture and then check if I can safely go, then go. If it is not safe to go then obv I don't go. If that means that the motorist has to wait much longer for me to go than so be it. He/she is the one that gave up their ROW to me I don't think there are any take-backs!
07-14-15, 07:55 AM
#47
Prefers Cicero
You're not doing something wrong, they are. They waved you through, but in fact, it wasn't safe, and you had to wait for some other vehicle. Imagine if you were a child on a bike and a driver waved you through, and you assumed that as an adult, they know what they are doing. You might not be as alert to the danger of that other car. So their ill-conceived attempt at politeness could get someone killed.
Last edited by cooker; 07-14-15 at 10:33 AM.
07-14-15, 10:04 AM
#48
High Plains Luddite
An approching female driver reacted as if I was a police officer directing traffic and slammed on her brakes, causing traffic in the closer of two oncoming lanes to stop, while traffic in the far lane continued to zoom by at 45 mph. Of course I couldn't go, and horns started honking behind her.
I assume all those cars behind her blamed ME for this bizarre standoff.
07-14-15, 10:07 AM
#49
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You're not doing something wrong, they are. They waved you through, but in fact, it wasn't safe, and you had to wait for some other vehicle. Imagine if you were a child on a bike and a driver waved you through, and you assumed that as an adult, they know what they are doing. You might not be as alert to the danger of that other car. So their ill-conceived attempt at politeness could get someone killed.
07-14-15, 10:31 AM
#50
Prefers Cicero
LOL, No, I know it wasn't safe because that's what the poster I quoted said:As did you:So we agree, sometimes waving people through might be dangerous. Fortunately both of you knew enough to ignore the wave because you recognized it was dangerous. But what about somebody who gets sucked in by the wave and isn't as careful as you?
Furthermore I wasn't giving her or you advice, so don't take it so personally. Not everything is about you.
Furthermore I wasn't giving her or you advice, so don't take it so personally. Not everything is about you.
Last edited by cooker; 07-14-15 at 10:40 AM.