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Repair Or Buy New? - Please Help Me Talk Through This

Old 07-14-15, 08:38 AM
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Repair Or Buy New? - Please Help Me Talk Through This

Hello my commuting brethren, I am asking for your help. I apologize for the length of this (I'm rather verbose) but I need some input to help me make a decision.

I have five different bikes that I will ride on various days, depending on the weather and my mood. My commute is 8 miles each way, and when you tack on additional errands and such I log somewhere around 3k to 4k miles per year. If the weather is nice I like to ride my road bike, which currently is a vintage 1981 Panasonic Sport. Unfortunately, age and mileage is taking its toll and the bike is in need of having the original drivetrain replaced.

The rear derailleur has lost about half the teeth on both jockey gears, which causes a fair amount of noise while I ride. Upshifts to higher gears work reasonably smooth, but downshifts aren't very accurate. I will move the shifter (friction) farther and farther, and when the shift finally happens it generally jumps all the way to the largest sprocket and then I have to shift back up to get to the gear I want. It's always had a tendency to do this but has gotten worse. Adjusting the derailleur and replacing the cable and chain didn't improve the problem and I'm guessing it's just an old low-end derailleur that never was very good to begin with. So its time to replace this derailleur.

The front derailleur has started dropping the chain extremely frequently when shifting from the small to big ring. Usually it happens at least once a day, but sometimes more (four times on this morning's ride to work... grrrr.) I have adjusted it as well, and there seems to be a point in the adjustment screw where turning it in any further won't allow the upshift to happen at all, but just a barely imperceptible turn outward allows the shift to happen but then causes the chain drop issue. Again, I suspect this is a combination of wear and a unit that was never that accurate to begin with, so I need to replace this derailleur too.

So, I am looking at replacing both derailleurs. While I'm at it, the crank is pretty tired and kind of rusty and the bottom bracket occasionally is noisy, so I'd like to change that out as well. The pedals have started creaking, so those are due. The seat is pretty much worn through, so add that to the list. All in all it would probably cost a couple hundred dollars to fix everything (I'd do the labor myself.) In my market area, the bike in perfect working order is probably only worth $150 and that's probably a bit optimistic. Basically, the repairs would cost more than the bike is worth.

On the flip side, I have been wanting to purchase a new fancy road bike for a while. I had it in the back of my mind that if I ever drop 50 pounds I could reward myself with a carbon framed cycle, and this year I finally accomplished that goal. Bikes Direct has a pretty good deal going on right now for a Kestrel Evoke 3.0. Carbon frame with a full Shimano 105 5800 groupset for $1199. I purchased my fixed gear bike through BD and had a good experience, so I have no issues with the company as some do. I do my own bike maintenance anyway, so I have no problem with assembling and adjusting a bike purchased online.

Benefits of buying new: A new bike would weigh nearly half what my current Panasonic weighs. It would have newer technology such as index shifting, brifters, better brakes and 22 speeds (versus my current 10). Hopefully it would last a while before it needed any repair. Also it would be shiny and new, which doesn't change functionality but is a bit exciting on an emotional level. I don't use racks or fenders on my road bike (I have other bikes with those) so not being able to attach them to a carbon frame doesn't bother me.

Benefits of fixing the old bike: Keeping my old bike would be $1000 cheaper once my repairs were made. It rides nice and is comfortable. It has a vintage mojo that is kind of cool. I've logged a lot of miles on it and have done modifications to make it "mine", so it does have a little sentiment attached. This was a low-end bike when it was new so there's really no collector value that I have to worry about preserving. I try to take care of it, but if it happens to get scratched I don't lose sleep over it.

The normal Bike Forums answer is N+1; buy the new bike and keep the old one too, but I already have five bikes of my own plus three more for the rest of the family and I just don't have the room. If I purchase a new bike the old one has to go.

I keep going back and forth on this decision, so I need some help. What would you do in my situation? Thanks ahead of time for any suggestions or input you have as I talk this out!
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Old 07-14-15, 09:44 AM
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Sounds like it is past due for a major overhaul, not sure if it really needs new derailleurs, probably due for a chain and chainrings and freewheel, new cables and housings, and a full teardown and cleaning/regreasing.

Rebuild existing vs buying something new is your call, as is buying something used but newer. Buying something new/newer then gives you the option of selling or keeping the current bike and possibly reconfiguring it to a different format such as a internally geared rear hub, or a single speeder, or yard art.

I can't often afford new so I'm usually in the "fix it or buy something used and newer" category. New bikes open you up to all sorts of new concerns though such as cartridge bottom brackets (one daily commuter I used to work with goes through at least one bottom bracket a year, and now is also looking at needing new cranks after maybe 3-4 years due to the crank assembly to bottom bracket interface (design flaw)).

Since you have five bikes it may be easier to just modify one of your other bikes to replace the worn out one (street slicks on a MTB as an example, or adding racks and such).

Hope this helps a little in your thought process.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
On the flip side, I have been wanting to purchase a new fancy road bike for a while.
There is your answer. If you update the old bike, it still won't be what you really want. And you'll be into it more than you could sell it for after you buy the CF bike (you know you will do that eventually). So just skip the rebuild and buy what you want (assuming you can afford to do that). And enjoy the ride.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:35 AM
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Buy New, Get Most Out of Old

Hey Tundra!

I think that the new bike makes more sense than refurbishing the old bike. And I'm very averse to spending money unnecessarily.

Here's what to do:

- calculate the net return on refurbing the bike and selling in your local market in August
- determine what you can get "as is" in your local market on a quick sale ($75?)
- compare these to the full donated value * [1- tax rate] as part of your itemized deductions

Do whichever nets you the most $ back in this tax year. Might be the refurb, might be the donate.

If donate, do it today. Drop it at Goodwill, put the receipt in your 2015 tax folder, and place the order for your new bike.

You're welcome. Phil
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Old 07-14-15, 10:44 AM
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From your description, it sounds like your old road bike needs a bit more TLC. It could be a nice project that you work on in the longer term. However, you need a bike to commute on now, and you also need the room. To me that means you would probably be better off getting the new bike.
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Old 07-14-15, 11:58 AM
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I was in a somewhat similar situation except that my old Peugeot was still in pretty good shape. It wasn't a high end bike but wasn't bottom of the barrel either. I enjoyed the Classic and Vintage nature of it, yet my eyes were wandering. I wanted dual pivot brakes, better wheels, and brifters. A little less weight would have been nice too.

I thought about getting a new wheelset and upgrading the drivetrain but after consulting some folks I realized what I really wanted was a different bike. So I sold the Peugeot and got a recent model road bike. There are times when I miss that old bike but I don't regret the decision.

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Old 07-14-15, 01:47 PM
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So far the vote is 4 to 1 in favor of buying a new bike. Thank you for everyone who has posted so far. You really are helping me sort out my thoughts.

I'm already in this Panasonic for far more than it's worth. A few years ago I redid the cockpit with new handlebars and brake levers, and converted it from stem shifting to bar-end (best upgrade I did.) Last year I swapped out the steel wheels for an alloy wheelset. I think the reason I'm having a hard time letting go is because I've put so much work into it already. And when the chain isn't falling off, it really does ride nice.

It's weird how we can get emotionally attacked to inanimate objects. The bike doesn't care if I keep it, sell it, give it away or crush it and sell it for scrap. Yet in some strange way the thought of giving it up makes me feel like I'm betraying it.

But I think you're right in that even if I replace the drivetrain I'm still not getting what I really want. I should probably bite the bullet and buy the new bike. I'm starting to lean more in that direction.

Or maybe I can buy the new bike and fix up the Panasonic, then get rid of one of my others. Hmmm....
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Old 07-14-15, 02:51 PM
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It all comes down to subjective choices, neither direction would be "wrong".

It does make it more tough that you've got sunken costs into the old bike with recent changes.

Do you have a friend your size that you could give the old bike to, and have them pay for parts, and you could show/help him to wrench it?

You could maybe do better than $150 if you found a cheaper donor bike on CL to get parts from, although I'm guessing the CL bike market is not as rich in SD (south dakota) as it is here in SD (san diego)...
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Old 07-14-15, 03:06 PM
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I believe we don't develop an attachment to the inanimate objects themselves, but rather to what they mean for us. This bike is important to you because of the labor you've put into it, the experiences you've had while riding it, and the memories you link to it. That's why it's so hard for most of us to let go of a bike we've had for a while.
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Old 07-15-15, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
Or maybe I can buy the new bike and fix up the Panasonic, then get rid of one of my others. Hmmm....
This could be the best solution. And you can take all the time you need to shop for parts to keep the cost of refurb low.
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Old 07-15-15, 12:13 PM
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Price out all the parts you need to buy for your repair yet?
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Old 07-15-15, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Price out all the parts you need to buy for your repair yet?
I did a little bit of research on the derailleurs and seat, seeing as those are the parts that are most in need of replacing. Haven't dug too far into looking at bottom brackets/cranksets yet.

Still haven't made up my mind which way I want to go. Leaning towards purchasing the new bike, but haven't yet convinced myself I want to spend the money.
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Old 07-15-15, 12:42 PM
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Did you mention what your other bikes were? At least one MTB... others? How many road bikes?

How is security for your commute? Much less traumatic to loose a $50 bike than a $1000 bike.

I think I'd either buy the Kestrel, or hunt for a good used Titanium or CF road bike. Then upgrade the Panasonic if you choose. Oh, do you need a rack on your commuter?

Some things like Jockey Wheels are consumables, and need to be replaced when they wear out. I'm not sure about your dropping the chain. If no obvious issue, it could be adjustment, or even simply a derailleur that has rotated on the mount.

There are "chain catchers", or perhaps it would give you enough of an idea to make one.

Do you have a local bike co-op or bike recycler? Some of the parts you need may be available there for less than new prices... sometimes even scavenging parts from busted derailleurs.
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Old 07-15-15, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
I did a little bit of research on the derailleurs and seat, seeing as those are the parts that are most in need of replacing. Haven't dug too far into looking at bottom brackets/cranksets yet.

Still haven't made up my mind which way I want to go. Leaning towards purchasing the new bike, but haven't yet convinced myself I want to spend the money.
You may ultimately want to get a new bike but since I like working on old things and don't like to sell something that's not working right, I'd be inclined to fix the old bike regardless.

I wouldn't buy new parts though unless you're just going to replace the jockey wheels and not the whole derailleur. If you don't have a bike shop in your area with a "salvage yard", post a "wanted" add on your local craigslist. No need to wait until someone posts something you're looking for. Go ahead and ask. Post wanted adds in neighboring cities as well.

And there is always Ebay.

As far as what to fix, you may not need a bottom bracket at all unless the races are shot. I have an '86 Univega and the BB started to creak. I just pulled it apart, replaced the bearings and along with the bearings put grease on every metal to metal contact point, - like the face of the BB shell. I also removed the chain rings and greased the bolts. When I put it all back together the creaking was gone. Creaks from that area can also be from the pedals so be sure to lightly grease the face of the crank arms near the pedal threads.

You could really have some fun and upgrade to indexed shifting. You'd need new cables, shifters and a hyperglide freewheel along with the derailleurs. But all that (aside from the cables) can be found used pretty cheap. Get new cables.

You could also go the other direction. Any desire to try a fixed gear? Now's a great opportunity. I confess to being a fixie skeptic a few years ago, but now I'm fairly enamored with them. I'm not saying you've got to saw off all the cable guides and everything. Leave those in place in case you want to convert it back.

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Old 07-15-15, 01:46 PM
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I would consider that I got my moneys worth out of the panasonic and buy new... now if money was an issue, then I would repair the old bike. In fact, I have 3 bikes and recently purchased a new road bike (which really a sweet machine) and considered which bike I wanted the least (because I only have room for 3) and sold that one... I couldn't be happier with the new bike. I still use the backup bikes depending on the situation and my mood.
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Old 07-15-15, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Did you mention what your other bikes were? At least one MTB... others? How many road bikes?
My other bikes:

Diamondback Insight RS - Hybrid decked out with a rack, bags, fenders, lights, Airzound and all the other commuting goodies. This is my workhorse bike for days when I have to haul a lot and/or the forecast calls for precipitation. Rode it to work this morning, in fact, as the forcast calls for a 50% chance of rain on my way home.

Giant Boulder SE - Mountain bike that, seeing as I don't do any mountain biking, I leave permanently set up as a winter commuter. It has fenders, a rack and most importantly studded tires. It sees nearly exclusive use between December and March. Generally in South Dakota once the winter hits things don't melt off until spring so there's always some ice patches on the road.

Windsor Clockwork - Fixed gear bike I ride once every few weeks. No fenders or rack, just a stripped down fun bike. With no gears and the fact that South Dakota is a wind tunnel the weather has to be perfect for me to ride it, hence it doesn't see a lot of miles. It's a keen orange color. I could probably convince myself to sell this bike in lieu of the Panasonic.

Felt S32 - Triathlon/TT bike. Before some injuries and life circumstances got in the way a few years ago, I was really into competing in triathlons. I haven't done any in the last 4 years so this bike doesn't get ridden very often. It's a terrible commuter as the shift levers are on the aero bars and the brakes are on the bullhorns, so your hands are always in the wrong spot when riding in traffic. Get it out on the open road, though, and this bike will flat out haul. I have a lot of great memories with this bike so it would be hard to sell, but realistically this is the one I should probably let go if I'm not going to do any more tri races in the future (which isn't a for-sure decision either.)

So my Panasonic is the only true road bike I currently have. And with all my other bases pretty much covered I would want to replace it with another pure road bike.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
How is security for your commute? Much less traumatic to loose a $50 bike than a $1000 bike.
My commute is pretty secure. Our office is in a corner of town removed from any traffic. A person would have to purposefully go out of their way to come into our parking lot in order to mess with or steal my bike. And even though it is slowly increasing, our city is still a fairly low-crime area so theft isn't too big of a concern of mine. Most thefts around here are crimes of opportunity, so a good lock is usually sufficient.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
I think I'd either buy the Kestrel, or hunt for a good used Titanium or CF road bike. Then upgrade the Panasonic if you choose. Oh, do you need a rack on your commuter?
I've got two bikes with racks for when I need to haul larger loads. When I ride my other bikes I just make due with a backpack, so any replacement bike won't need to have a rack.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
Some things like Jockey Wheels are consumables, and need to be replaced when they wear out. I'm not sure about your dropping the chain. If no obvious issue, it could be adjustment, or even simply a derailleur that has rotated on the mount.

There are "chain catchers", or perhaps it would give you enough of an idea to make one.

Do you have a local bike co-op or bike recycler? Some of the parts you need may be available there for less than new prices... sometimes even scavenging parts from busted derailleurs.
No local co-op in my area. Craiglist is a bit sparse too, although that can be an option if a person is patient enough. I've thought about just fixing the jockey wheels (did that for a friend's bike once) but then I figure for $25 and a lot less hassle I could just buy a new rear derailleur that is probably better than the original one anyway.

I've monkeyed with the front derailleur quite a bit but can't seem to get it adjusted in the sweet spot. It works fine about 95% of the time, but the other 5% is when the chain drops. Breathe slightly on the adjustment screw and the dropping issue stops because then it won't shift into the big ring. Again, for another $25 I could just replace the front derailleur and be done with it. I'm pretty frugal by nature, but I also can recognize the economy of spending a few extra dollars to save myself the headache of trying to rig something together to make the existing unit work.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It really is helping!
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Old 07-15-15, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
You may ultimately want to get a new bike but since I like working on old things and don't like to sell something that's not working right, I'd be inclined to fix the old bike regardless.
Good point. Even if I wind up selling/donating this bike I should probably at least do enough work on it to fix the major issues for the next owner.

Originally Posted by tjspiel
I wouldn't buy new parts though unless you're just going to replace the jockey wheels and not the whole derailleur. If you don't have a bike shop in your area with a "salvage yard", post a "wanted" add on your local craigslist. No need to wait until someone posts something you're looking for. Go ahead and ask. Post wanted adds in neighboring cities as well.

And there is always Ebay.

As far as what to fix, you may not need a bottom bracket at all unless the races are shot. I have an '86 Univega and the BB started to creak. I just pulled it apart, replaced the bearings and along with the bearings put grease on every metal to metal contact point, - like the face of the BB shell. I also removed the chain rings and greased the bolts. When I put it all back together the creaking was gone. Creaks from that area can also be from the pedals so be sure to lightly grease the face of the crank arms near the pedal threads.
My thought on replacing the bottom bracket went along with the idea of replacing the crankset, as a new crankset may not work with the old BB. If I did find a compatible crankset or just decided to live with the old one then I agree I should just have to service the current BB.

Originally Posted by tjspiel
You could really have some fun and upgrade to indexed shifting. You'd need new cables, shifters and a hyperglide freewheel along with the derailleurs. But all that (aside from the cables) can be found used pretty cheap. Get new cables.
A few years ago I went through and converted the bike to use bar-end shifting. I replaced the cables at that time, and I loved how that modification turned out. The barcons are 100 times better than the old stem shifters. They still are friction though, and (at least at this time) I'm not motivated enough to re-do it again to go with indexed shifting.

Originally Posted by tjspiel
You could also go the other direction. Any desire to try a fixed gear? Now's a great opportunity. I confess to being a fixie sceptic a few years ago, but now I'm fairly enamored with them. I'm not saying you've got to saw off all the cable guides and everything. Leave those in place in case you want to convert it back.
You posted this while I was busy responding to Clifford above. Yes, I already have a fixed gear bike in the stable. In fact when I bought that one I had been considering converting the Panasonic. Instead I went with the above mentioned barcon upgrade.
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Old 07-15-15, 02:11 PM
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All mechanical objects have a useful life and become worn out or obsolete or both. Your bike is both. Even if you fix it up, it will still be obsolete. Get the new bike, and in 10-15 years, you'll be asking the same question about the new bike.
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Old 07-15-15, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Man
Felt S32 - Triathlon/TT bike. Before some injuries and life circumstances got in the way a few years ago, I was really into competing in triathlons. I haven't done any in the last 4 years so this bike doesn't get ridden very often. It's a terrible commuter as the shift levers are on the aero bars and the brakes are on the bullhorns, so your hands are always in the wrong spot when riding in traffic. Get it out on the open road, though, and this bike will flat out haul. I have a lot of great memories with this bike so it would be hard to sell, but realistically this is the one I should probably let go if I'm not going to do any more tri races in the future (which isn't a for-sure decision either.)
Absolutely sell the Felt.

Or, consider putting regular drop bars on the Felt? You could put the tt-end shifters into the barends, you'd need new brake levers. Or you could get a pair of brifters (or for a really "unique" look, you could put your existing shifters onto Gevenalle levers). There is probably some kind of threadless steerer extension you could get so you could get the cockpit up a bit without having to replace the fork.

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Old 07-15-15, 02:49 PM
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Since you want a new bike, you should get a new bike. BD is a good start, and many other retailers - both online and brick-and-mortar - often have deep discounts on previous years' bikes.

As for the Panasonic, I feel your pain, brother. Getting rid of it seems like it would feel having your dog put to sleep. You say there is no more room - what about keeping it as a 'beater' bike that you leave locked to something outside, while all the 'good' bikes are kept safe in the house or garage? Every time you need to run to the store for a bottle of Colt45 or smokes or whatever, the Panasonic will be waiting for another adventure with a lock and everything! And repairs can be as minimal as a new rear derailleur (~$15), new cables (~$10) and a small can of oil. Add new handlebar tape and it will feel like a new bike.
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Old 07-15-15, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad
Or, consider putting regular drop bars on the Felt? You could put the tt-end shifters into the barends, you'd need new brake levers. Or you could get a pair of brifters (or for a really "unique" look, you could put your existing shifters onto Gevenalle levers). There is probably some kind of threadless steerer extension you could get so you could get the cockpit up a bit without having to replace the fork.
I'm not sure about Tri-TT geometry vs road geometry, but I certainly would start looking at upgrades for that bike. Drop bars... or...

I think there are a few ways to put dual brakes on TT bikes. That might be half the battle if you choose to keep the aero bar config. People have mounted shifters at different locations on the bikes. Wherever it is most convenient.

If you're on a tight budget....
I've started using Chinese Aluminum Jockeys... in part to improve indexed shifting. I'd probably keep bushings on the top, but not the bottom for non-indexed shifting.

Perhaps ride the hybrid for a bit while you put the Panasonic on the work stand and ponder its future for a few days.

Each person is different as whether a beater is best for errands or not... Lots of decisions.
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Old 07-15-15, 03:44 PM
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Thankfully I'm not constrained by a budget. While I'm not what I would consider wealthy, I'm also not in a position where I'm having to save pennies by re-using 35 year-old jockey wheels if I don't want to.

That being said, I got in this financial position by not making purchases without carefully weighing the pros and cons (hence this thread.)

If I do keep the Felt, it's going to remain in its current configuration as a dedicated TT bike. I have no interest in trying to convert it to a drop bar road bike. For one thing, the geometry is just too agressive for what I'm looking for in a road bike. For another, it's just too sexy looking the way it is.

But regardless of what I do with the Panasonic, I do need to either start riding the Felt or face the fact that it's time to give it up.
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Old 07-18-15, 08:02 PM
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Went for a long ride on the Panasonic this morning which gave me some time to think. Came home and bought the Kestrel.

I'll fix up the Panasonic over the winter so it's either ready to ride for the next owner, or fixed for me if I decide to keep it. In the spring I'll decide which bike leaves the stable. Tough choice, but one I need to make.
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Old 07-19-15, 08:56 AM
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Nice work, make sure and come back to post pics of the beautiful new bike!

This is one of those situations I think where there is no wrong choice; you will I'm sure enjoy the new bike. Or if you decided to fix up and stick with the Panasonic, since it fits you so well, you would have continued to enjoy that as well.
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Old 07-19-15, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s
All mechanical objects have a useful life and become worn out or obsolete or both. Your bike is both. Even if you fix it up, it will still be obsolete. Get the new bike, and in 10-15 years, you'll be asking the same question about the new bike.
I have bikes that are 80, 44, 41, and 31 years old, are still going strong, perfectly functional, and are a pleasure to ride.

Obsolesce is very subjective, other than a few things such as tires or indexed shifting, its mostly a consideration of marketing and and enthusiast obsessing, rather than any actual need for the average cyclist or commuting.
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