no motor?

That's why putting the brighter light on the helmet makes more sense. You can aim it better and can temporarily use the brighter light to attract attention just like you do in a car when you flash the high beams.

PaulRivers

Thanks! I'm sure this thread will go to hell in a hyperbole basket like it always does, lol, but every now and then (usually on page 1 or 2) there's a good post.

Yeah, reality is more a middle ground, and there is info somewhere, as always it's neither the one extreme or the other.

kickstart

My B&M Luxos U has a remote handlebar switch that allows one to conveniently flash the high beam.

tergal

I use the IXON premium for my commuter.

On the recumbent it has the added bonus of looking like it has a flasher to people on a certain angle because of my feet

dscheidt

If you take a light with a conical beam -- which is what a flashlight is, and what most of the crappy Chinese crap sold as bicycle lights are -- and aim it so there is no light above the horizon, which is what you should do to avoid blinding traffic, you will illuminate a spot about five or ten feet in front of you. With a really bright light, you'll get illumination further on. But the bright spot interferes with your distance vision, and in an amusing failure of the human brain, makes you think you can see better than you can.

There are really good reasons no vehicle on the road uses conical headlights pointed at the ground, but instead use a light with a shaped beam. Put more photons further away, and fewer closer, so the whole field is evenly illuminated.

Leebo

MA law requires a white light on the front of the bike, steady or blinking to be visible from 500 ft. Quite a distance. I run 500 lumens on the helmet. 500 blinking on the bars and 600 or so on the bars steady. Just enough in the dark, rain or at over 25 mph. Those potholes come up quickly. Not so much on the MUP. Yes pointed somewhat down, not really worried about car drivers at all, ever about what they think of my lights.. If they are driving at say 40 mph and you are doing 15-20, you are a 3 or 4 second blip on the race to get home. When they don't see you, that's the problem.

mconlonx

In the case of headlights, they cater to your comfort, maybe return the favor?

Headlights on cars are shaped so that on low-beam, there's a top cutoff and by manufacturer mandate, they are supposed to be aimed so that they are not shining into the eyes of other motorists... and cyclists.

I run a Supernova E3 Asymmetrical light. The Asymmetrical part means it is a shaped beam, where the top is cut off like car and motorcycle headlights. I believe this may be a requirement in Germany for road use lights; the symmetrical E3 being marketed as an offroad light.

jfowler85

That sounds nice but in practice I find that this is not the case. My headlight is trail light which casts a wide conical beam and I have no issues with distance vision; I require glasses for low light and distance, and my light is powerful enough to drown out standard halogen lamps when I use it full blast. Not sure what in the world you're talking about with brain failure, sounds like a neurological disorder to me. By the way light only displays the properties of a particle under certain observation.

My Ram 2500 displayed some very conical beams, as do many vehicles, you can see the pattern on the road. Headlight reflector shape is only half of the story; the headlight is aimed by set screws which adjust the alignment of the unit. Ever replaced a headlight only to find that it is aimed way off when you are sitting in front of your garage door at night? Ever notice how an oncoming vehicle can seem to have one single high beam on? The headlight is aimed incorrectly in its harness.

No driver purchases a vehicle for the expressed purpose that its headlights are designed for a cyclist's comfort, that is a dumb statement. Manufacturers of said headlights don't pump out lights which blind pedestrians because they wouldn't be FMVSS approved and furthermore wouldn't sell. You seem to miss the part I keep repeating if my headlight is casting its beam in a driver's eyes, I tilt the headlight down. No silly special purchases needed, and I can adjust my light on the go for my mixed roadway/MUP route. I'm glad your headlight suits your needs well; frankly mine suits me well and therefore I really don't care about yours.

You seem somewhat knowledgeable on headlight manufacturing, but I'm not buying it. I am 6'2" tall; when I am running at night I am nearly blinded by HIDs on low beam; that's a bit exaggerated, but my pupils dilate and the surrounding field of vision washes out enough that I wouldn't notice a pot hole. Ain't no top cutoff there my friend, let alone any catering to my comfort.

rmfnla

1. I aim my light downward so it isn't shining in anyone's face; I thought we established this a good idea.

2. I almost never ride at night.

3. I seriously doubt any of my made-in-China ebay lights come anywhere near 1000 anythings.

4. I still am trying to process how my wanting to be noticed will mean nobody else will be...

mconlonx

Not a dumb statement at all, just the fact of the situation -- OEM car headlights are designed not to blind other road users. Unlike many/most lights marketed for bike use in the USA, where there really are no regulations regarding headlights for bicycles beyond requiring one at night. It's not so much the intent of the drivers as the actual effect.

I likewise could not care less about your particular headlight type or use.

If it's aftermarket lighting, all bets are off. And just like there are doosh cyclists who don't mind that they are blinding other road users, there are equally inconsiderate motor vehicle operators...

One trick I use is to look to the edge of the road when approaching headlights are blinding, so when I glance back up after the offending vehicle has passed, the readjustment period is shorter.

jfowler85

The Marines teach other techniques for preserving washout, such as closing one eye completely and squinting with the other...I've got tricks in my bag but that's not the point. The point is to say that you're claiming that headlights are designed in such a manner that they do not blind pedestrians, and this itself was used to back up your claim that I should return then same courtesy to drivers with my own headlight choice. The thing is, today's HIDs are bright as ****, and even though my line of sight is a good 4 feet above a BMW 3's headlights, my vision nearly completely washes out when I am approached at night. What you're saying and what I experience in the real world do not mesh at all, so I err on the side of my own experience, which is that there is no courtesy to return.

Look, there is no fact to your post about driver courtesy. Please cite me any single individual who has ever purchased a vehicle because it provided a marked measure of comfort to someone else on the road. That doesn't happen, and it's tomfoolerific to think otherwise. I bought my car because it suited my needs, not because it suited the needs of another. My family is included in the statement "me."

I agree about your OEM headlight statement - but in that case I would not be returning a courtesy to the driver because the driver didn't design the headlights and we've already established that no one buy's a car for the convenience of another. The headlight manufacturers will never see my cycling light on the road, so then who am I returning a courtesy to? And if I my vision is washed out by every other car out there on the road, then what courtesy am I returning?

Clyde1820

I've personally required lighting features (beyond 'basic') on cars I've purchased, and I've personally swapped out to certain lights that had sharp (Euro-style) cutoffs ... this at a time when practically no such cars in the USA were sold that way. Was a must-have feature, though as it turned out several choices in cars were available at the time. So long as it also met my general needs, sure. Can't speak for others, but yes there are some of us who make such decisions.

jfowler85

Granted. But what you are referring to is changing a feature, which is the nature of the discussion I am arguing against. The difference is that you modified a car, not a bicycle; I could make all the same arguments vice versa and nothing would change. The specific comment I am arguing on and on about is mconlonx stating that I should return a courtesy to those who supposedly buy cars for the sake of my safety and comfort, which is just not true. You didn't purchase your vehicle because of my safety precedence, you purchased it because you needed a vehicle and the one you chose suited those needs. I (representative of those other than you) was never part of that equation and I never will be.

Clyde1820

That particular need being: consideration of the combination of (a) improved lighting and (b) improved safety consideration for other drivers. Can have both, with proper lighting. True enough, in this case.

Which brings us back to the cutoff feature for bicycle headlights. It has a similar impact on safety and avoiding ticking off folks as it does with car headlight technology. Can have superior lighting and avoid situations with bad glare, washout and the rising self-righteous anger folks feel from being blinded.


Though, I'll grant that's pretty much where it ends. I'd love a 180dB horn or two, damn the impact on others; and I'd love it if the lights had a temporary, safety-oriented strobe-from-Hades feature that would function somewhat like a bike headlight on random strobe, for the tough situations. Those are two areas where I'd choose the feature for their particular failure to accommodate others' preferences, but more for their appreciation life doesn't always go as planned.

dscheidt

It's the way the human brain works. Over illuminate the near field, and your ability to see beyond the near field is reduced. But you think you can see better than you can. It's one of the reasons that people with flashlights think they're great.

no motor?

Did you get the Cibie z beam halogen lights? I put those in one of my cars in the late 70's and they were awesome.

kickstart

I know someone who put a HID projector lamp kit in a reflector headlight on a motorcycle, even though he knows its illegal and the incorrect combination of lamp and housing, and contrary to all evidence he swears its "better". Some people just insist that "more" is always "better".

jawnn

thanks.....
but how is it for staying out of driver's eyes?

jawnn

hay, thanks of all the great information here, guys.....

next we can talk about horns.....oh boy what fun....

jawnn

..A car is a vary large wepon. not their head lights.

Thanks for finnaly making that perfectly clear:

jawnn

this is a good point.....

jawnn

you win for the best reply....thanks!

jawnn

looks like a good light but this beam shot is questionable

jawnn

I see you really like to read BS into what people say. you really should not even be on this forum....you sound like a troll.

Clyde1820

Yes, they were Cibies, in one case. In another, they were contemporary HID's. Nice, effective cutoff that's well-suited to the purpose. Vastly greater light output, strict control of how much gets up into an oncoming car's cabin. Can't imagine having a generic flashlight on a bike, where there's no such control, certainly not when having a headlight that's got a lot of light.