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Noob Q on Merino Wool

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Noob Q on Merino Wool

Old 10-07-15, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
I'd love to have access to the Salvation Army places you guys seem to find. I've been down there a few times and I've never seen any wool at all. The place is full of clothes, all of it horrible.

I've seen some long sleeve baselayer stuff on Amazon for $60 or so. What would you recommend to someone who's never owned wool before?

I need to do some experimentation because in about a year my company will be moving to 26 miles away and no showers.

Check out the Stoic brand longsleeve 150 weight baselayer at backcountry: Stoic Merino 150 Crew - Long-Sleeve - Men's | Backcountry.com I have two of them. They're great. Stoic is BC's house brand. If you pay attention you can get them on sale for less than $35 with free shipping. Well worth it.

As for no showers, I have a pack of unscented baby wipes in my office that I use after I cool down.
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Old 10-07-15, 03:41 PM
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That looks like a really good deal for a $35 sale, thx for the link I'll keep an eye out
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Old 10-08-15, 10:01 AM
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Thanks, that's fantastic. I'm totally OK with paying the normal $41 that it's showing now. I'll get one and see how it goes for me. If it's good I'll wait for a sale because I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 and probably a couple pair of the trousers as well.
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Old 10-08-15, 11:14 AM
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let us know what you think about it after you get it.
I don't think $41 is bad either but good to know about the $35 sale.

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Thanks, that's fantastic. I'm totally OK with paying the normal $41 that it's showing now. I'll get one and see how it goes for me. If it's good I'll wait for a sale because I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 and probably a couple pair of the trousers as well.
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Old 10-08-15, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
Thanks, that's fantastic. I'm totally OK with paying the normal $41 that it's showing now. I'll get one and see how it goes for me. If it's good I'll wait for a sale because I'm going to need at least 3 or 4 and probably a couple pair of the trousers as well.
I've worn merino for years now and I've never needed 3 or 4. Because they don't hold odor you really wash them very seldom. For sizing, I'm 5'10" 175 and the medium is perfect.
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Old 10-08-15, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
So newb on this base layer stuff. For merino wool or poly blend long sleeve in 20-40 degrees - do you wear that straight against the skin/no t shirt? I'm looking to DE-dampify my commute. I'm trying to figure out a new layering system where I don't show up to work soaked and freezing like last year.
What you can do is to choose an outer shell with windproof/windresistant panels. Smartwool, Icebreaker among many offer products like that. What it does it to allow you to underdress without being cold at the main areas.

Last edited by erig007; 10-08-15 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10-08-15, 12:23 PM
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I've been wearing Merino wool since 1982, not always on a bike but always in extreme cold. Not only does Merino absorb a lot of sweat, it also holds your body heat. The problem with cotton is that is absorbs sweat and then gets cold. Finding 100% Merino wool today is not easy since they use synthetics to stich the parts together. I've found 90% locally but it is quite expensive. Silk is also very good for keeping you dry, but then you need something on top to keep you warm. As far as washing goes, I wear that stuff once and then is gets washed. Stink is not the only issue: Bacteria can become an issue as well.
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Old 10-08-15, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mvcrash
As far as washing goes, I wear that stuff once and then is gets washed. Stink is not the only issue: Bacteria can become an issue as well.
The stink comes from the bacteria. If it's not smelling, there's no bacteria.

Originally Posted by Cool Wildlife.com
merino wool has a much greater capacity than other fibers to absorb moisture. In fact, it can absorb 35% of its own weight in liquid. The moisture is bound within the structure, and so is not available to microbes which cause body odor. Merino wool fibers are scaly and studies have shown that bacteria are more attracted to the smooth, positively charged surface of a synthetic fiber than the scaly surface of a merino fiber which carries no charge thus bacteria are less likely to penetrate it.
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Old 10-08-15, 01:27 PM
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That Stoic stuff is good value. Thanks for the advice.

You can also get merino shirts at Costco from time to time. I've paid as little as $20.

I also find great prices on wool sweaters (merino and other) at church rummage sales. I often pay $5.
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Old 10-08-15, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp
I've worn merino for years now and I've never needed 3 or 4. Because they don't hold odor you really wash them very seldom. For sizing, I'm 5'10" 175 and the medium is perfect.
Cool. Obviously I need at least 2 so I can wash one and wear another, or if I have an accident and damage one. Also if I like I will get trousers as well. I picked up a pair of wool socks too since they put me over $50 and went from $6 to free shipping so the socks were almost free.

I'll post here later.
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Old 10-08-15, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
That's exactly the combination I was eyeing for this winter in Chicago. The Showers Pass 2.1 is expensive but last winter I went cheap on everything so this time I'm going to splurge a bit.

Q-> Is that jacket overkill for use primarily as a shell?
Going to a windproof breathable jacket was a huge, huge improvement in winter riding for me, windproof breathable is definitely worth it in my opinion.

There's 2 questions though:
1. Whether you could get something similar in function (windproof breathable) but cheaper
2. Whether you could something non-waterproof, but more breathable

On #1 I don't know - I know most comparable stuff is similarly priced.

On #2 I'm researching right now, but frankly, I don't know that I'll be able to figure it out without buying something and trying it myself. The eVent fabric used for the Shower's Pass jacket is good, but I've always felt like it would be nice if it was more breathable (but it is technologically possible to make something that's more breathable and also windproof?). I've looked into Windstopper - windproof but not waterproof - and just haven't been able to figure out if it's more breathable than eVent fabric or not.

So is it worth the price for something that's breathable and windproof for winter riding? In my opinions it's definitely "yes". Is there something better or cheaper out there? I'm not sure.
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Old 10-08-15, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
...... in 20-40 degrees ...... I'm looking to DE-dampify my commute. I'm trying to figure out a new layering system where I don't show up to work soaked and freezing like last year.
The secret to remaining dry has little to do with fabrics.... it is about ventilation. Exercise/cycling will cause you to sweat. To stay dry... you need to evaporate the sweat as quickly as you produce it.

Wool naturally stagnates air movement.... by locking air in the tight little coils of wool fibers. The stagnation is complete enough it will even hold water/sweat against your body keeping you warm.

I'd use layers of moisture dispersing technical fabrics. At lease two layers... three might be better.

Then carefully select an additional outer layer. I normally use a rain and windproof (non-insulated) outer layer with multiple zippered vents. Allowing for LOTS of air-flow that will evaporate any moisture that the tech fabric moved to the outer most layers. You won't get wet.... or even warm. You'll feel cool or close to cold. Regulate the zippered air flow and your activity to control your warmth.

NOTICE: The clothing described in no way will provide you with the warmth needed in freezing temperatures to stay warm if you for any reason... you stop moving/cycling. Having a trunk bag or rack of some sort is essential for foul weather cycling. You'll need to have a coat along if for any reason you break-down or are injured.

Last edited by Dave Cutter; 10-08-15 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 10-08-15, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
Going to a windproof breathable jacket was a huge, huge improvement in winter riding for me, windproof breathable is definitely worth it in my opinion.

There's 2 questions though:
1. Whether you could get something similar in function (windproof breathable) but cheaper
2. Whether you could something non-waterproof, but more breathable

On #1 I don't know - I know most comparable stuff is similarly priced.

On #2 I'm researching right now, but frankly, I don't know that I'll be able to figure it out without buying something and trying it myself. The eVent fabric used for the Shower's Pass jacket is good, but I've always felt like it would be nice if it was more breathable (but it is technologically possible to make something that's more breathable and also windproof?). I've looked into Windstopper - windproof but not waterproof - and just haven't been able to figure out if it's more breathable than eVent fabric or not.

So is it worth the price for something that's breathable and windproof for winter riding? In my opinions it's definitely "yes". Is there something better or cheaper out there? I'm not sure.
Good thoughts. I just got the SP Elite 2.1 and am trying it out - but it's just not cool/cold enough in Chicago yet. It's definately a good jacket - but I'd like to also use it as a non-cycling snow/winter shell on top of a fleece or something. I'm so picky. I like it - but don't know if it's 250 worth of like.

Might go to REI and try out Novarra Express (Novarra=60/SP=250?). Was also looking at Foxwear and JG - but their colors pretty much only come in yellow and I'd feel bad ordering just to return later if I didn't care for them.

Last edited by illusiumd; 10-08-15 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 10-08-15, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
The secret to remaining dry has little to do with fabrics.... it is about ventilation. Exercise/cycling will cause you to sweat. To stay dry... you need to evaporate the sweat as quickly as you produce it.

Wool naturally stagnates air movement.... by locking air in the tight little coils of wool fibers. The stagnation is complete enough it will even hold water/sweat against your body keeping you warm.

I'd use layers of moisture dispersing technical fabrics. At lease two layers... three might be better.

Then carefully select an additional outer layer. I normally use a rain and windproof (non-insulated) outer layer with multiple zippered vents. Allowing for LOTS of air-flow that will evaporate any moisture that the tech fabric moved to the outer most layers. You won't get wet.... or even warm. You'll feel cool or close to cold. Regulate the zippered air flow and your activity to control your warmth.

NOTICE: The clothing described in no way will provide you with the warmth needed in freezing temperatures to stay warm if you for any reason... you stop moving/cycling. Having a trunk bag or rack of some sort is essential for foul weather cycling. You'll need to have a coat along if for any reason you break-down or are injured.
Yes, the venting thing I'm appreciating on the SP jacket. With the cuffs open and the back panel I was def getting some flow this morning. So funny on the October day I try out a new jacket on Chicago's lakefront - it happens to be 65 and mostly sunny
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Old 10-08-15, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
Yes, the venting thing I'm appreciating on the SP jacket. With the cuffs open and the back panel I was def getting some flow this morning. So funny on the October day I try out a new jacket on Chicago's lakefront - it happens to be 65 and mostly sunny
We generate a LOT of warmth bicycling. And it really doesn't take much to keep our legs and core warm enough. Fingers, nose, ears, and toes however.... are a different thing altogether.
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Old 10-08-15, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
Good thoughts. I just got the SP Elite 2.1 and am trying it out - but it's just not cool/cold enough in Chicago yet. It's definately a good jacket - but I'd like to also use it as a non-cycling snow/winter shell on top of a fleece or something. I'm so picky. I like it - but don't know if it's 250 worth of like.
Lol, you sound almost exactly like me. I wanted a winter jacket, and one that would do as much as possible for other uses, first biking in the rain above freezing, then anything else.

- Wow this jacket sounds great, but so expensive. But I'm going to order it, maybe I can use it with other things.
- Wait, it looks like eVent fabric is kinda fragile (all the most breathable fabrics are) - like fine for biking a lot a long time, but not great for having backpack straps rub against the shoulders. Plus shoulders are right into the wind - don't want that to wear through or take water.
- Ugh, for the same reasons I don't want to wear it skiing or doing anything where I expect to fall down - don't want to rip it or wear it.
- Looks like this is mostly just for biking in the winter or in rain, don't want to wear it while I have anything rubbing against it.

Actually go biking in subfreezing temperature

- Ok, I don't care about multi-use any more, just want something as windproof and breathable as possible!

If I knew for sure that the jacket is the most breathable, I'd say "get it". I just haven't been able to figure out if something like windstopper is more breathable.

Originally Posted by illusiumd
Might go to REI and try out Novarra Express (Novarra=60/SP=250?). Was also looking at Foxwear and JG - but their colors pretty much only come in yellow and I'd feel bad ordering just to return later if I didn't care for them.
Lol that's it own dilema - spend $200 on a jacket now, or spend substantially less money only to find it to unbreathable waste all the money on it?

I've seen Foxwear before, what kept me away from them was - honestly - that a lot of their clothing looked rather unstylish. It's great if you don't care, but as a single guy I'm ok with plain but avoid "ugly".

Sorry the ramble on without a clear conclusion. Bottom line, Shower's Pass Elite jacket has worked well for me. I've just always wondered if there is a more breathable jacket out there if I give up waterproofing.
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Old 10-09-15, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
- Wow this jacket sounds great, but so expensive. But I'm going to order it, maybe I can use it with other things.
- Wait, it looks like eVent fabric is kinda fragile (all the most breathable fabrics are) - like fine for biking a lot a long time, but not great for having backpack straps rub against the shoulders. Plus shoulders are right into the wind - don't want that to wear through or take water.
- Ugh, for the same reasons I don't want to wear it skiing or doing anything where I expect to fall down - don't want to rip it or wear it.
- Looks like this is mostly just for biking in the winter or in rain, don't want to wear it while I have anything rubbing against it.

Actually go biking in subfreezing temperature

- Ok, I don't care about multi-use any more, just want something as windproof and breathable as possible!
HA! Yes - exactly - what you said. So the SP/eVent tears pretty easily? Thanks again that was good stuff.
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Old 10-09-15, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by illusiumd
HA! Yes - exactly - what you said. So the SP/eVent tears pretty easily? Thanks again that was good stuff.
My understanding is that all of the most breathable fabrics - that are also waterproof - can be durable against being worn a lot but are not very durable for having things actively rubbed against them (shoulder straps, rough and tumble falls like while downhill skiing, etc).

In another product line for example, Gore-tex "Active" is their most breathable material:
GORE-TEX® Active Products

Whereas their "Pro" line is not as breathable, but is more durable for activities where the jacket will get hit with more abuse:
GORE-TEX® Pro Products

But for example none of the Goretex bikewear jackets are "Pro", they're all "Active":
Men's Jackets & Vests for Road Cycling and MTB | GORE BIKE WEAR®
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Old 10-09-15, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
My understanding is that all of the most breathable fabrics - that are also waterproof - can be durable against being worn a lot but are not very durable for having things actively rubbed against them (shoulder straps, rough and tumble falls like while downhill skiing, etc).
Why do you need waterproof breathable for winter use? Unless where you live your winter is around or above freezing i don't see the point.
Something water resistant enough against snow i can understand but waterproof?

On paper nanopro membrain from marmot seems slightly more breathable than goretex active. In reality though the difference is so tiny that jacket design will certainly be more important than the fabric
Sunrise Gear: Marmot NanoPro Fabrics vs Gore-Tex Fabrics

Anyway, all that to say that both my wool tops/jackets (smartwool phd hyfi divide, icebreaker blast) are more breathable than my marmot essence jacket (read SP2.1)

Something noticeable is that one of my systems including my essence jacket is more breathable than another one including a thick merino wool jacket (kuhl spy jacket). Why? I believe it's because the lack of wind resistance of the kuhl spy jacket requires to overdress in order to keep warmth which reduce breathability of the system. My other wool tops/jackets that have wind resistant panels prevent that which makes the related systems more breathable.

So i believe that for winter use it's better to go for wool with wind resistant panels than going with waterproof-breathable unless you get lots of wet snow/rain where you live.

Last edited by erig007; 10-09-15 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 10-09-15, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
Why do you need waterproof breathable for winter use? Unless where you live your winter is around or above freezing i don't see the point.
What you need is windproof and breathable. Materials that have those qualities tend to also be near being waterproof.

So manufacturers tend to make them fully waterproof, for sales and manufacturing reasons. Polartec for example has released materials that are "almost waterproof" that sound like great materials, but they stopped pushing them as they seemed to be hard to market something that's "almost waterproof" (they were a lot less windproof as well good for jackets standing around not necessarily for biking where you create your own wind).

I think for winter use it's best to go for wool against-the-skin as a baselayer, with a windproof breathable outer layer. Waterproof is not necessary, and as I said in my post, I would quickly happily give it up if it meant more breathable. It just happens to be that waterproof, windproof, and breathable happen to be close to each other in material so they often end up all being recommended together.
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Old 10-09-15, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
What you need is windproof and breathable. Materials that have those qualities tend to also be near being waterproof.
We agree then on the windproof/breathable thing. Regarding the other point my icebreaker blast jacket has windproof panels but is far from being waterproof.

Last edited by erig007; 10-09-15 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 10-09-15, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
We agree then on the windproof/breathable thing. Regarding the other point my icebreaker blast jacket has windproof panels but is far from being waterproof.
For cold winter riding you need more than a couple of panels (depends what you mean by panels), it's best if it 100% covers any forward or side facing part of you with windproof material.

But otherwise - yeah, I agree with you, waterproof for below freezing is not at all necessary. It just happens to be correlation with windproof and breathable material.
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Old 10-10-15, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
The stink comes from the bacteria. If it's not smelling, there's no bacteria.
That is an old wives tail. There is always bacteria on your skin and when things are warm and moist, it is optimum for growing nasty bugs. Everyone's body chemistry is different. I know folks who stink from out of the gate and others who can exercise for hours and never smell. I prefer to hand wash in a little Woolite and let hang dry. By the next day the stuff is dry and clean.
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Old 10-11-15, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
What you need is windproof and breathable. Materials that have those qualities tend to also be near being waterproof.
Top 5 jackets that fit this bill? Thanks again. I'd imagine one of these will work
https://www.gore-tex.com/products/out...tive-products/

Last edited by illusiumd; 10-11-15 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 10-11-15, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mvcrash
That is an old wives tail. There is always bacteria on your skin and when things are warm and moist, it is optimum for growing nasty bugs. Everyone's body chemistry is different. I know folks who stink from out of the gate and others who can exercise for hours and never smell. I prefer to hand wash in a little Woolite and let hang dry. By the next day the stuff is dry and clean.
Yeah but you're talking about the skin itself, which apparently is better for growing bacteria than wool fibers. Synthetic fibers also seem to be better for growing bacteria than wool fibers.
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