canklecat

That Jamis Citizen 1 looks nearly identical to my Globe Carmel, other than the top tube. Took awhile to get the saddle height and position dialed in, but it's comfortable for me. I can't ride drops anymore due to a busted up neck and permanently damaged C2.

I'm 5'11" and had to scoot the saddle as far forward as it would go to get the right fit, and it could still stand another 1/4" but it won't go any farther forward. Seemed counterintuitive at first, but scooting the padded, springy saddle forward put it right under the butt bones and I'm no longer scooting around while riding trying to get settled in.

I don't raise the saddle quite as high as I would on a more standard geometry frame. Often I'll fiddle around with the saddle height during a ride, usually only 1/4" or so up or down, depending on how my knees feel that day. And that depends on barometric pressure and other voodoo that affects my arthritis and joint pain. And I spin more than I used to. No more hammering, especially uphill.

The standard plastic platform pedals might be a factor too on my bike, but I'm leaving that stuff as-is until I've ridden at least six months. I'm not yet in quite good enough condition to really evaluate the benefit of stuff like pedals, toe clips or clipless.

Also, I'm centering my feet more toward center of the arch rather than the balls of the feet. Another counterintuitive bit, after the habits I'd been taught years ago with a road bike, toe clips and cleated riding shoes centering on the balls of the feet. With the platform pedals I feel much less knee stress and more efficient pedaling with the arches closer to centered.

The main sacrifice with the upright bike is on uphills and headwinds. If there's no traffic or a wide shoulder available, I'll lean my forearms across the bar (can't quickly brake or shift, so I'm very careful about where and when I do this). The big rubbery ergo grips offer a comfortable place to drape my forearms. Helps with pedaling efficiency uphill - gets the quads into it more - and minimizes the profile into headwinds.

Again, maybe after six months I'll re-evaluate and decide whether to add another bike with lower flat bars and a slightly more aggressive frame geometry. Depends primarily on my neck, secondarily on the back and knees. So far, so good, after 3 months back in the saddle. But I'll save the Globe comfy bikes for local errands even if I do add another lighter-weight bike just for exercise and recreational rides.

wphamilton

Well, the red line shows that the nose on both bikes are at the same distance back, and the black line shows the same distance above the spindle and therefore both are at the same angle and distance. Right triangle, simple geometry. The line through the wheel axles shows that both bikes are scaled the same, and level with each other. But it's moot since those aren't his bikes.

GamblerGORD53

Why the LBS let you out the door with a size medium is beyond dumb. I doubt 23" is even big enough.
I hope your LHT is a 62 cm. With riser bars it can be as upright as you desire. No need for those also slow comfort beginner bikes. What would help is cranks 180 or 190. I have 180 and I'm 5'8". 19,000 miles with IGH's on a heavyweight bike, with old Raleigh bars.

kenwer

The size of the Quest, 60cm, and the Citizen 1, 23", are pretty close to the same so I'm inclined to think that it's my position on the bike that is causing the knee problems. In other words I think I could have set up the Quest the exact same way, geometrically, to cause the same effect on my knees. My new theory is that I could do the reverse and get rid of the knee trouble and live without the joy of upright bicycling. But before I do that I'm going to try a commute with the comfort seat instead of the Brooks, as personally embarrassing as it may be.

kenwer

The LHT is 60cm and is the very comfortable for me. I have always been more comfortable on 60cm bikes than any other size. But you are right about the 21" being a big mistake. I live very far from this bike shop and have a baby and a toddler which equals about 27 minutes of free time/month. I was fooled by the standover because the top tube slopes up, and i figured after a quick, rainy, test ride that I could dial it in enough. It was almost a circus act.

wphamilton

It's good to eliminate variables. But almost always, for knee pain specifically it's just the seat height.

harshbarj

I'd argue upright bikes are easier on the knees. I use to ride mountain style bikes and would have lots of pain in many areas. I now ride a dutch city bike and have no problems.

hooCycles

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.

I would say the difference between an upright position and a more compact position is very similar to the difference between a front squat and a back squat. Upright position/ front squat would be more quad-dominant while racing position/back squat would involve more glute and hammy.

In other words, on an upright bike the muscles near my knee (quads) have to work harder. But I don't think it would be any worse for your knee.