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Old 02-24-16, 11:02 AM   #76
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There are deaf people who do great at cycling. When on a bike one is more exposed to surroundings, and so a deaf person's heightened remaining senses will fare better than when being isolated in a car. I rely on both sight and sound when cycling. However plenty of things work to muffle or drown out sounds, like wind. Sometimes I cannot hear cars around me, but I'm still plenty aware of what's around me because of my sight and helmet mirror.
Ok, I see your point. It's true that deaf people have other senses more developed, so let's agree to disagree on this one, I still think cycling in the open is dangerous for everyone as it is, deafness definitely adds more grief than help.

Moving back to people using headphones, they do not have their senses heightened and are effectively killing their hearing for the duration of the ride.

Take last Saturday for example, I'm riding on the Rickenbacker causeway on Key Biscayne, Fl, roughly 22 mph, I find this guy going in front of me and because that part of the road is a high speed highway where cars often go above the speed limit, I stay behind him for a couple miles instead of trying to pass him. I'm focused on keeping a straight path and also watching the cars on my helmet mirror; we both are riding roughly at the same speed but this guy is starting to slow down so I have to stop pedaling to avoid a crash. Then all of the sudden he stops pedaling altogether and raises from the handlebar, stretches and it's only when he turns back that he realizes I'm back there, a foot from him, scrambling to not crash with his rear, even though I was making a huge scandal with my cassette and my music!! And all of this with cars passing us at 60 mph 3 feet away.

It's a miracle we didn't crash right there. An even bigger miracle is that I didn't punch him in the face when I finally passed him.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:35 AM   #77
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I would like to add, as I have a number of deaf friends, that deaf people aren't "disabled". They see themselves as functioning people who simply have to interact with the world skightly differently than hearing people. Plus, cochlear implants give a form of audio feedback to deaf people. Its more of a mechanical sound, but allows many deaf people to interact more easily with the hearing world.

I didn't take the time to read the replies, but it is very discriminating to deny deaf people the right to cycling.
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Old 02-24-16, 12:05 PM   #78
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..we both are riding roughly at the same speed but this guy is starting to slow down so I have to stop pedaling to avoid a crash. Then all of the sudden he stops pedaling altogether and raises from the handlebar, stretches and it's only when he turns back that he realizes I'm back there, a foot from him, scrambling to not crash with his rear, even though I was making a huge scandal with my cassette and my music!! And all of this with cars passing us at 60 mph 3 feet away.

It's a miracle we didn't crash right there. An even bigger miracle is that I didn't punch him in the face when I finally passed him.
Miracle! Indeed! See Music while riding
Miami has a law against wearing headphones , so nobody else anywhere should; got it.

You almost collided with a bicyclist because of your own poor cycling behavior- tailgating/following too close and nobody else should wear headphones or listen to anything but for the sound of arrogant tailgater's music or noisy cassette; got it.
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Old 02-24-16, 12:07 PM   #79
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Ok, I see your point. It's true that deaf people have other senses more developed, so let's agree to disagree on this one, I still think cycling in the open is dangerous for everyone as it is, deafness definitely adds more grief than help.

Moving back to people using headphones, they do not have their senses heightened and are effectively killing their hearing for the duration of the ride.

Take last Saturday for example, I'm riding on the Rickenbacker causeway on Key Biscayne, Fl, roughly 22 mph, I find this guy going in front of me and because that part of the road is a high speed highway where cars often go above the speed limit, I stay behind him for a couple miles instead of trying to pass him. I'm focused on keeping a straight path and also watching the cars on my helmet mirror; we both are riding roughly at the same speed but this guy is starting to slow down so I have to stop pedaling to avoid a crash. Then all of the sudden he stops pedaling altogether and raises from the handlebar, stretches and it's only when he turns back that he realizes I'm back there, a foot from him, scrambling to not crash with his rear, even though I was making a huge scandal with my cassette and my music!! And all of this with cars passing us at 60 mph 3 feet away.

It's a miracle we didn't crash right there. An even bigger miracle is that I didn't punch him in the face when I finally passed him.
Maybe don't stealth draft? You seem to be the issue here. He doesn't know your there, you don't give him enough space and then it's his fault? My snot rockets tend to keep idiots off my wheel. Plus my mirror.
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Old 02-24-16, 12:23 PM   #80
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While a proponent of music while riding, I find the Rickenbacker Causeway episode detailed above specious at best. If a cyclist ahead of me is going slower than the pace I'd like, I pass them. I've never followed anyone for "a few miles" because even on flat-ground tempo riding, that's around 10 minutes. This fellow never once glanced over his shoulder... for ten minutes? I understand hyperbole to prove a point, but rein it in a little. Probably also not wise to ghost wheelsuck the guy who never looks over his shoulder.

But if we keep this up, this whole thread is gonna get moved to A&S, and where's the fun in that? There's enough wet blankets in there to put out a forest fire.
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Old 02-24-16, 12:42 PM   #81
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Ok, I see your point. It's true that deaf people have other senses more developed, so let's agree to disagree on this one, I still think cycling in the open is dangerous for everyone as it is, deafness definitely adds more grief than help.

Moving back to people using headphones, they do not have their senses heightened and are effectively killing their hearing for the duration of the ride.

Take last Saturday for example, I'm riding on the Rickenbacker causeway on Key Biscayne, Fl, roughly 22 mph, I find this guy going in front of me and because that part of the road is a high speed highway where cars often go above the speed limit, I stay behind him for a couple miles instead of trying to pass him. I'm focused on keeping a straight path and also watching the cars on my helmet mirror; we both are riding roughly at the same speed but this guy is starting to slow down so I have to stop pedaling to avoid a crash. Then all of the sudden he stops pedaling altogether and raises from the handlebar, stretches and it's only when he turns back that he realizes I'm back there, a foot from him, scrambling to not crash with his rear, even though I was making a huge scandal with my cassette and my music!! And all of this with cars passing us at 60 mph 3 feet away.

It's a miracle we didn't crash right there. An even bigger miracle is that I didn't punch him in the face when I finally passed him.
Ah, I see, you're one of those who sees cycling as a dangerous activity. The reality is that cycling is a relatively safe activity, even when done poorly (as one person I know tends to phrase it). One reason why more people don't cycle is because of people pushing the idea that cycling is a dangerous activity.
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Old 02-24-16, 01:03 PM   #82
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I still think cycling in the open is dangerous for everyone...

Moving back to people using headphones, they do not have their senses heightened and are effectively killing their hearing for the duration of the ride.

Take last Saturday for example, I'm riding on the Rickenbacker causeway on Key Biscayne, Fl, roughly 22 mph, I find this guy going in front of me and because that part of the road is a high speed highway where cars often go above the speed limit, I stay behind him for a couple miles instead of trying to pass him. I'm focused on keeping a straight path and also watching the cars on my helmet mirror; we both are riding roughly at the same speed but this guy is starting to slow down so I have to stop pedaling to avoid a crash. Then all of the sudden he stops pedaling altogether and raises from the handlebar, stretches and it's only when he turns back that he realizes I'm back there, a foot from him, scrambling to not crash with his rear, even though I was making a huge scandal with my cassette and my music!! And all of this with cars passing us at 60 mph 3 feet away.

It's a miracle we didn't crash right there. An even bigger miracle is that I didn't punch him in the face when I finally passed him.
Sorry that you feel cycling is dangerous? It helps if you don't ghost draft complete strangers. Just because you can go 22mph doesn't mean you have to, or that you need to be right on someones ass and risk a collision when that person is just doing their own thing. Maybe you should try a bell or using your voice instead of relying on a cassette/speakers. Safe following distance applies in the cycling world as much as it does in the car world.

It's a miracle I can use headphones and still hear enough of my surroundings/am smart enough to guess that if I am about to change lanes, there might indeed be other traffic and I should look behind me before I make a lane change.
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Old 02-24-16, 01:48 PM   #83
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When I rode alone to work I listened to Spotify on my phone, with my left headphone off (the ear that faces traffic) and at a volume so low I could hear everything around me. I usually listen to the same playlists so I can 'imagine' the music. Now that my SO is jobless and rides with me we don't listen to music on my commute. Sometimes on longer group rides we take a small speaker and either connect it via Bluetooth to my phone or use a mini sd card (for his music).
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Old 02-24-16, 04:17 PM   #84
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....Maybe you should try a bell or using your voice instead of relying on a cassette/speakers.
Interestingly, I had an experience once where I was on a bikeway playing my music over the speaker and a very attractive woman was riding in front of me, alone. Dirty old man that I am, I noticed that she was moving very seductively with the groove, so I went into dingbat male mode and stayed on her tail - pushing up the volume every few minutes - for about four miles until we both reached the end.

When we got there, she forked left, I forked right, and then we both semi-circled to meet in the middle. When she saw the speaker on my handlebars and heard the music, she looked at me and commented "Oh, is THAT where the music was coming from? I thought it was from a car or something."

My point? When people get into the "zone" on their bicycle, sometimes something like extraneous music from another bike melds into their whole zen frame of mind and sits there like just another sound of nature. Never assume the music coming from your bike is alerting anyone to where you are or where you are headed.

PS: When we came face-to-face, I realized the girl was young enough to be my granddaughter's teenage babysitter and I felt like a total creep for the rest of my time on the planet.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:28 PM   #85
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Miracle! Indeed! See Music while riding
Miami has a law against wearing headphones , so nobody else anywhere should; got it.

You almost collided with a bicyclist because of your own poor cycling behavior- tailgating/following too close and nobody else should wear headphones or listen to anything but for the sound of arrogant tailgater's music or noisy cassette; got it.
I don't think you got it. Some people think it's ok to ride with headphones, I don't. If I ever crash with someone because he wasn't aware of my presence because if the headphones it's always going to be his/her fault. The fact that you call me arrogant for trying to make myself aware to other riders is childish at best.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:29 PM   #86
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Maybe don't stealth draft? You seem to be the issue here. He doesn't know your there, you don't give him enough space and then it's his fault? My snot rockets tend to keep idiots off my wheel. Plus my mirror.
I wasn't just for the sake of it. I didn't have the space to pass him because of the cars and if I slow down then it's really hard for me to gain speed again.

Thanks for calling me idiot, by the way.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:35 PM   #87
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While a proponent of music while riding, I find the Rickenbacker Causeway episode detailed above specious at best. If a cyclist ahead of me is going slower than the pace I'd like, I pass them. I've never followed anyone for "a few miles" because even on flat-ground tempo riding, that's around 10 minutes. This fellow never once glanced over his shoulder... for ten minutes? I understand hyperbole to prove a point, but rein it in a little. Probably also not wise to ghost wheelsuck the guy who never looks over his shoulder.

But if we keep this up, this whole thread is gonna get moved to A&S, and where's the fun in that? There's enough wet blankets in there to put out a forest fire.
First of all I said a couple of miles, at 22 mph, that's 5 minutes worth of riding?
You really find hard to believe someone not looking behind for 5 minutes?
I didn't pass him because I couldn't due to heavy traffic, the second I felt safe to do so I did.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:39 PM   #88
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Ah, I see, you're one of those who sees cycling as a dangerous activity. The reality is that cycling is a relatively safe activity, even when done poorly (as one person I know tends to phrase it). One reason why more people don't cycle is because of people pushing the idea that cycling is a dangerous activity.
Well, yes, I see it as a somewhat dangerous activity. Too many variables out of one's control.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:42 PM   #89
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Its interesting reading all the various opinions on this subject, but nothing has changed how I personally how I feel about it.

1. I personally feel uncomfortable compromising my hearing on a bike or motorcycle.
2. I occasionally encounter people unaware of their surroundings because of it.
3. Music played out loud in public by individuals is pollution, the same as trash, cigarette butts, or dog feces.




Cycling can be potentially dangerous if one is careless, but its not inherently dangerous........just like many everyday activities. I'm statistically at greater risk of death or injury as a truck driver than I am as a cyclist.

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Old 02-24-16, 10:49 PM   #90
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First of all I said a couple of miles, at 22 mph, that's 5 minutes worth of riding?
You really find hard to believe someone not looking behind for 5 minutes?
I didn't pass him because I couldn't due to heavy traffic, the second I felt safe to do so I did.
22mph is .36miles/minute, so you would cover 2 miles in just under 5.5 minutes.

I was under the impression the other rider was traveling slower than 22mph, hence your need to pass. If he was doing 22 and you were doing 22, how did you catch him?

I find it impossible to believe that someone would not look over their shoulder for 5.5 minutes under those conditions.

Google image search for "Rickenbacker Causeway bike lane" shows lanes well over two bikes wide. I'm nowhere near Florida, so I have no idea what the conditions actually are, but nevertheless remain skeptical.
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Old 02-24-16, 10:50 PM   #91
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Just to set the record clear, I do not ghost draft, wheel suck or whatever you choose to call it whenever I feel like it or to annoy other riders, in fact, the majority of the times it's because I get stuck between a rider whom I can't pass (like in the event described before) or because I myself are being tailed by someone else (know or unknown) and I do not have any room to slow or side to be passed.

I mentioned that there were two occasions where I almost crashed because a rider wearing headphones, so please allow me to narrate the other occasion, which happened about a year ago in south Miami.

Same deal, I'm riding minding my own business, being arrogant as I-Like-To-Bike so kindly put it. Then there's this guy in front of me wearing full over-the-ear headphones and riding a lot slower than me. The street is relatively clear and I have some space to pass him without invading the car lane for a long time or going too much into it, so I increased the pedaling in order to pass him and just as I'm doing so he starts moving towards where I'm passing, obviously completely unaware I'm inches away from him. I yelled "LEFT! LEFT! ON YOUR LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFT! and he didn't hear me, I almost fell as I instinctively hit the brakes when I realized he wasn't going to correct his path and braced because I was really expecting not only to hit the road but also to be hit by a car. Only then he glanced and noticed me. All he said was: "Sorry, bro. didn't see you."

I'm dying to see how this one is my fault also.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:02 PM   #92
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I find it impossible to believe that someone would not look over their shoulder for 5.5 minutes under those conditions.
Believe what you want, people do all the stuff you're not supposed to do while riding, I've run into people riding in the opposite direction, people riding with dogs on the side and people riding with kids on a trailer behind, all in the Rickenbacker. I used to bring my daughter with me when she was younger, but never on such a dangerous road. I'm pretty sure California must be the same.

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Google image search for "Rickenbacker Causeway bike lane" shows lanes well over two bikes wide. I'm nowhere near Florida, so I have no idea what the conditions actually are, but nevertheless remain skeptical.
Dude, I ride it every week, sometimes more than once. Trust me, you can't fit two bikes side by side unless you are riding slowly in a more leisurely way.

Since you're on google already, try searching for Rickenbacker causeway bike deaths or the Aaron Cohen act.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:07 PM   #93
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Cycling can be potentially dangerous if one is careless, but its not inherently dangerous........just like many everyday activities. I'm statistically at greater risk of death or injury as a truck driver than I am as a cyclist.
I agree, anything is potentially dangerous, even slipping in the shower or getting a piece of cake stuck in the throat, BUT all I'm trying to say is cycling becomes more dangerous because of the carelessness of others, be that cyclists, runners or drivers. You know people texting or doing whatever. There is no way to control that, but if not wearing headphones while riding is going to make your ride and everyone around you a little safer then the answer is pretty obvious to me.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:15 PM   #94
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I never compromise any of my senses while cycling. Maybe on a trainer. Never in the real world.
+1
I find that listening to the voices in my head is all I need.
But seriously, I often get tunes stuck in my head, most recently Bowie tunes after listening to a lot of his music after his death.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:38 PM   #95
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I don't listen to music, but I do sing to myself quite often. What kinda bothers me, though, are people who do listen to music on external speakers rather than earbuds. The ones who wear earbuds are often oblivious to their surroundings, and that can be a problem. It's the loud external speakers that get to me - I really don't want to share your favorite music, and I think it's pretty egocentric to force others to listen to your tunes. But that rarely happens since most are listening to their tunes in mostly solitude. I did run across a guy who cranked his tunes on a mtb course, and you could hear his noise for quite a distance. I disliked him immediately.
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Old 02-24-16, 11:59 PM   #96
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I ride with my earbuds in all the time, however they are never loud enough to distract my riding. I can hear like normal it just not as lout, which I like. Ive been riding with them in for about a year and never once has anything happened that you could attribute to me having earbuds in. I can easily hear emergency vehicles, they are LOUD. If you go by what most cities allow for dB in a car your far more likley to be able not to be able to hear them in a car. I can still hear the average car and other noises just as soon just quieter. I find I pay more attention with my eyes while listening too, which I like to rely on more than my ears (sound echoes, some things sound like other things but my eyes take in an image and transport it precisly to my brain)
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Old 02-25-16, 01:42 AM   #97
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I'm not sure if it has to do with the area I ride or the time of day, but it's incredibly rare to see another cyclist on the road. I'm not concerned with being smacked by a car, because A) I have a mirror, and B) if somebody's going to run me over, it's because they don't see me-so they're obviously not gonna be honking to alert me of my impending doom.

i have a lot of playlists on my phone, but mostly:

1. angry rap for when I'm feeling tired and need the inspiration to ride (I.e, Ice Cube, Bone Thugs, Tech N9ne, etc)

2. Jazz from the 30s and 40s for when it's a nice day outside and I feel wholesome

3. a grumpy white guy playlist featuring guys like Tom Waits, Lou Reed, Nick Cave, etc. just because I like it.

4. Folky/90s chicks for when I feel particularly witchy, with stuff like Tori Amos, Joni Mitchell, Carol King, Stevie Nicks, Poe, Kate Bush, etc.

And very often, instead of music, I'lol just listen to a podcast. Categories include: gardening/sustainability/homesteading, horror/paranormal/zoology, witchy stuff. Welcome to Night Vale is always a winner.

And I just use the headphone that came with my phone.
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Old 02-25-16, 02:12 AM   #98
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I can enjoy the music while riding, as I get a safety vest with small speakers on the shoulder from roadnoise. and I am quite like it, and put it on my cycling shorts. Seems pretty good.
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Old 02-25-16, 01:01 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by jamisFan View Post
I wasn't just for the sake of it. I didn't have the space to pass him because of the cars and if I slow down then it's really hard for me to gain speed again.

Thanks for calling me idiot, by the way.
If the shoe fits Just like in a car, you are responsible for rear ending someone. Leave more SPACE. I get the narrow road, narrow bike space thing. I commute in the leafy suburbs, if someone is closer than 4 bike lengths, I will speed up, slow down or most of the time, wave them around. I also brake check tailgaters in my car as well.
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Old 02-25-16, 01:04 PM   #100
mr geeker
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If by listen to music you mean singing random songs and talking to myself, then yes, yes I do.

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