noglider 

Aha, that's where I went wrong. Is this an opportunity for Campagnolo or Cinelli or Colnago? Pinarello?

rmfnla

Not sure; the brand is in some stylish script that I can't read.

Still, Campy makes a nice corkscrew so anything's possible...

corwin1968

I have read a lot of accounts online of people using small, ceramic burr hand grinders (usually in the $20-30 range) successfully. Some seem more suited to fine grinds and some seem more suited to coarse grinds and if they excel at one end of the spectrum, they are generally lacking at the other extreme.

I have a Hario Skerton and I can't get it to work well for a course, french press grind. Even after adding an after-market part and adjusting it many times. I suspect that if I set it for drip grind, it would make a drinkable cup of coffee but not great and it would be a lot of work to grind enough for a pot of coffee (the finer the grind, the longer it takes and the more difficult it is).

I have a Cuisinart burr grinder (about $50) and it does a drinkable French press grind but it's not consistent enough to produce a good French Press grind. I end up with large particles and small particles and they get extracted at different rates so my coffee ends up more bitter than it should (smaller particles being immersed for the length of time meant for larger particles = overextraction). I had a local coffee shop french press grind some of their beans for me in their commercial grinder and it made a big difference in the flavor of the coffee.

If you are drinking coffee at a less than enthusiast level, those hand grinders will probably work fine and if you are an enthusiast, it seems possible to make those grinders work, though it's eluded me so far.

noglider 

Come to think of it, I have an Italian made espresso machine. It is stylish and gorgeous. I have to contort my body to reach the water reservoir. I don't use it any more, but I should put it on display.

RubeRad

Lots of bike companies make bottle openers, and I've always wanted a Park PZT-2

RubeRad

"less than enthusiast level" sounds like me, I think an irregular grind could work OK since my method is hybrid: steep (like french press) and then paper-filter (like drip)

noglider 

What difference does the fineness (finity?) of the grind make? I do understand why fine is better for paper and coarse for french press, but I find I get away with violating the guidelines. If I use coarse for paper, I just use more. If I use fine for french press, it's just more mud in my mouth and more cleanup. I don't mind any of these things.

joeyduck

This is making me consider the option of using the particle size distribution testing apparatus to shift my ground beans to obtain a wholly uniform mixture for brewing the perfect cup.

Oh the possibilities.

I also have an automated solvent extractor at work that holds samples in a cell for a certain time, pressure, and temperature with your selected solvent and then extracts into the collection vessel. Then we have a lyophillizer or freeze dryer and I can make my own instant coffee for the road.

RubeRad

That's a good question; I don't see how particle size would affect the ability of hot water to extract coffeeness from grounds, it seems like it should just be a question of jiggering the time and proportions.

noglider 

I love that "coffeeness!"

Well, some really don't like their coffee muddy, and I respect that. I love it that way. I make my coffee blow-the-top-of-your-head-off strong and just don't drink much of it.

rmfnla

Physically speaking, smaller particles offer more surface area per given unit...

RubeRad

ergo less steeping time and more difficult filtering, but otherwise would the coffee taste different?

rmfnla

Not sure about different, perhaps more flavorful..?

corwin1968

This. If you grind 20 grams of coffee at a very fine setting, there will be much more surface area exposed to water than if you ground that same 20 grams of beans at a very course setting. The finely ground coffee will reach full extraction much faster than the course ground coffee. Therefore, the brewing time has to match the grind of the coffee. The specifics are pretty well established for each brewing method available. If you over-extract coffee, it will taste bitter. If you under-extract coffee, it will taste sour. The ratio of water to coffee is also pretty well established as around 17-to-1. The catch is that all of the ground coffee needs to be the same size. If the grind is not consistent, you end up with different levels of extraction and either a bitter or sour cup of coffee.

The temperature of the water also needs to be between 195-205 degree Fahrenheit, but that's a whole other issue.

For example, when I brew with my French Press I grind 19 grams of coffee at a course setting. I mix this with about 300 grams of water that is about 202 degrees Fahrenheit for four minutes and then I filter and pour. My grinder isn't the best so I end up with a lot of correctly sized bits of coffee but also a fair amount of powder, which gets over-extracted. My grinder is good enough that it doesn't ruin the coffee but it doesn't produce the quality I want. Also, if I use water that is lower than the high 190's, my coffee will be sour because the water wasn't hot enough and the grinds are under-extracted, resulting in a sour cup. If I use boiling water, which is too hot, my coffee will be over-extracted and the cup will be bitter. And the French Press is considered one of the more forgiving brewing methods!!! I haven't even considered trying pour-overs, which are the newest rage.

This is why people will spend $500 for a good grinder and a Technivorm brewer. You just have to measure you water, measure your coffee, grind it at a pre-determined setting and let the machine do the rest. There are only a few home brewing machines that get the water hot enough to properly extract the flavor from the coffee beans. Technivorm is one ($300) and Bonavita ($150) is another.

I think most Americans have never had truly good coffee. I know that was true for me until just the last year when I started seriously researching and trying my hand at good coffee. A good cup of coffee, served black, is creamy, smooth and has a sweet taste. I wouldn't have believed that if I hadn't experienced it first-hand.

RubeRad

Thanks, that is a very good explanation.

I wonder how effective it would be to attempt a coarse grind, and then pass the result through a fine metal strainer or a flour sifter, to separate the grounds into coarse vs finer (finer doesn't need to be thrown away, just brewed separately)

Is that maybe why people like espresso, because it's such a fine grind, it's easier to get consistent size particles?

corwin1968

I've tried the straining thing once and the amount of powder that got strained out surprised me. I decided it wasn't cost effective when using an $18 bag of beans. I think the powder was too fine to be used for anything.

Espresso is a whole other world. From what I've read, if making a great cup of coffee is equal to graduating high school, making good espresso is equal to getting a PhD. The grind has to be perfect, the amount of coffee has to be perfect, the compression of the grounds in the basket has to be perfect and most importantly, you need a really, really expensive machine (four digit cost) to get good espresso. If I want a latte or cappucino, I let the professionals make it for me.

canklecat

Gevalia is a fine grind intended for drip makers. I use it in a French press. Tastes great. A little mud, but it doesn't bother me.

If irregularly ground coffee tastes bitter, in a French press or any other, something is wrong with the coffee itself. Good beans properly roasted should never be bitter. Shouldn't even be that picky about water temperature.

But most so-called French roast and dark roast coffees I've tried (again, with the exception of Gevalia) taste like an excuse for masking the flavor of inferior beans. I prefer medium or light roasts. More caffeine, better flavor.

corwin1968

I haven't purchased any quality dark roast beans, all of mine having been light roasts. The beans (Topeca's Kenya Nyeri Peaberry) I'm using now were one of the top rated in the country last year and it's quite easy to get a bitter or sour cup if the brewing variables aren't correct.

I also think there is a wide range of tolerance among people for the tastes of coffee. I suspect I'm on the very finicky side and need a near-perfect cup to be satisfied. I've read a lot of threads on coffee and many people aren't picky...if it tastes like coffee and has caffeine, they are happy.

Nycycle

I can't believe how many people post here,,I NEED my coffee,
One cool spring morning on top of this ,,,,,,Mountain, we got up doing everything we could to keep warm. Then down off that hill we went, 18 mile decent and my legs froze stiff,,,I see a little country store with a picture of a steaming coffee cup in the window....OH that was good.. Not mine, but it did the job.

alan s 

I used to think the same, but K cups have come a long way. They actually brew an OK cup of coffee. My favorite is Caribou. Best thing is they are free at work, and easy to prepare. I drink my coffee black, so the flavor is not masked by creamer, and all I can say is it's tolerable, not nasty, though.

1989Pre 

The quality of the coffee (or juice or tea) is mostly related to how good your water filtration system is.
Right now, I am using a Crystal Quest Multi-stage Flouride reduction filter system (single tower), but in the past I have had good results from NSA. Cold water goes into a one quart stainless steel pan (no paper or plastic) and three heaping teaspoons of Wicked Joe's organic medium roast. Put the range on high and go brush my teeth. Almost ready to boil when I come back. Stir and let sit, preferably in a window, to circulate chi into the coffee.

tjspiel

I just fill my water bottle from the tap and go.

RubeRad

I am somewhere in the middle, I know there are lots of people that won't tolerate what I find acceptable, and there is lots of coffee out there that I won't tolerate.

rmfnla

I checked again; I have the black one and it has been terrific for at least 7 or eight years:

Conical Burr - Coffee Grinders

revcp 

Late to the party here, but this is a great post. I'm presently using a Bonavita, as it was the only reasonably priced maker that got the water to the required temp. Plus it has no bells and whistles. You turn it on. And it drips into an insulated carafe. Before the Bonavita we had a Newco OCS 12. Made the best pot of coffee I've ever had and the carafe kept the coffee hot for many, many hours, but, alas, we lost it in our house fire a few years ago and Newco no longer makes consumer machines.

As a grinder I use a Kuissential Manual Ceramic Burr grinder. Again, sadly, no longer available. Works well. Has a good adjustment for coarseness. Takes some time, but that's the price one pays for good coffee.