Coffee
03-03-16, 11:21 AM
#76
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Late to the party here, but this is a great post. I'm presently using a Bonavita, as it was the only reasonably priced maker that got the water to the required temp. Plus it has no bells and whistles. You turn it on. And it drips into an insulated carafe. Before the Bonavita we had a Newco OCS 12. Made the best pot of coffee I've ever had and the carafe kept the coffee hot for many, many hours, but, alas, we lost it in our house fire a few years ago and Newco no longer makes consumer machines.
As a grinder I use a Kuissential Manual Ceramic Burr grinder. Again, sadly, no longer available. Works well. Has a good adjustment for coarseness. Takes some time, but that's the price one pays for good coffee.
As a grinder I use a Kuissential Manual Ceramic Burr grinder. Again, sadly, no longer available. Works well. Has a good adjustment for coarseness. Takes some time, but that's the price one pays for good coffee.
Makes a big difference...
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03-03-16, 11:28 AM
#77
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03-03-16, 11:42 AM
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Late to the party here, but this is a great post. I'm presently using a Bonavita, as it was the only reasonably priced maker that got the water to the required temp. Plus it has no bells and whistles. You turn it on. And it drips into an insulated carafe. Before the Bonavita we had a Newco OCS 12. Made the best pot of coffee I've ever had and the carafe kept the coffee hot for many, many hours, but, alas, we lost it in our house fire a few years ago and Newco no longer makes consumer machines.
As a grinder I use a Kuissential Manual Ceramic Burr grinder. Again, sadly, no longer available. Works well. Has a good adjustment for coarseness. Takes some time, but that's the price one pays for good coffee.
As a grinder I use a Kuissential Manual Ceramic Burr grinder. Again, sadly, no longer available. Works well. Has a good adjustment for coarseness. Takes some time, but that's the price one pays for good coffee.
03-03-16, 01:53 PM
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This. If you grind 20 grams of coffee at a very fine setting, there will be much more surface area exposed to water than if you ground that same 20 grams of beans at a very course setting. The finely ground coffee will reach full extraction much faster than the course ground coffee. Therefore, the brewing time has to match the grind of the coffee. The specifics are pretty well established for each brewing method available. If you over-extract coffee, it will taste bitter. If you under-extract coffee, it will taste sour. The ratio of water to coffee is also pretty well established as around 17-to-1. The catch is that all of the ground coffee needs to be the same size. If the grind is not consistent, you end up with different levels of extraction and either a bitter or sour cup of coffee.
The temperature of the water also needs to be between 195-205 degree Fahrenheit, but that's a whole other issue.
For example, when I brew with my French Press I grind 19 grams of coffee at a course setting. I mix this with about 300 grams of water that is about 202 degrees Fahrenheit for four minutes and then I filter and pour. My grinder isn't the best so I end up with a lot of correctly sized bits of coffee but also a fair amount of powder, which gets over-extracted. My grinder is good enough that it doesn't ruin the coffee but it doesn't produce the quality I want. Also, if I use water that is lower than the high 190's, my coffee will be sour because the water wasn't hot enough and the grinds are under-extracted, resulting in a sour cup. If I use boiling water, which is too hot, my coffee will be over-extracted and the cup will be bitter. And the French Press is considered one of the more forgiving brewing methods!!! I haven't even considered trying pour-overs, which are the newest rage.
This is why people will spend $500 for a good grinder and a Technivorm brewer. You just have to measure you water, measure your coffee, grind it at a pre-determined setting and let the machine do the rest. There are only a few home brewing machines that get the water hot enough to properly extract the flavor from the coffee beans. Technivorm is one ($300) and Bonavita ($150) is another.
I think most Americans have never had truly good coffee. I know that was true for me until just the last year when I started seriously researching and trying my hand at good coffee. A good cup of coffee, served black, is creamy, smooth and has a sweet taste. I wouldn't have believed that if I hadn't experienced it first-hand.
The temperature of the water also needs to be between 195-205 degree Fahrenheit, but that's a whole other issue.
For example, when I brew with my French Press I grind 19 grams of coffee at a course setting. I mix this with about 300 grams of water that is about 202 degrees Fahrenheit for four minutes and then I filter and pour. My grinder isn't the best so I end up with a lot of correctly sized bits of coffee but also a fair amount of powder, which gets over-extracted. My grinder is good enough that it doesn't ruin the coffee but it doesn't produce the quality I want. Also, if I use water that is lower than the high 190's, my coffee will be sour because the water wasn't hot enough and the grinds are under-extracted, resulting in a sour cup. If I use boiling water, which is too hot, my coffee will be over-extracted and the cup will be bitter. And the French Press is considered one of the more forgiving brewing methods!!! I haven't even considered trying pour-overs, which are the newest rage.
This is why people will spend $500 for a good grinder and a Technivorm brewer. You just have to measure you water, measure your coffee, grind it at a pre-determined setting and let the machine do the rest. There are only a few home brewing machines that get the water hot enough to properly extract the flavor from the coffee beans. Technivorm is one ($300) and Bonavita ($150) is another.
I think most Americans have never had truly good coffee. I know that was true for me until just the last year when I started seriously researching and trying my hand at good coffee. A good cup of coffee, served black, is creamy, smooth and has a sweet taste. I wouldn't have believed that if I hadn't experienced it first-hand.
03-03-16, 02:18 PM
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This depends largely on brewing method, water temperature and the beans used. This is not as simple as the back of a bag of Starbuck's would have you believe. I've been drinking coffee for decades and my experience is that too many beans/too little water causes the nasty sour taste, overextraction tends to make the brew stronger (that's about brewing time not ratio of beans:water) and too little beans/too much water just makes coffee flavored water. The new pourover method is simply the snob's version of percolation with better temperature control...nothing novel there. Coffee does not have a sweet or creamy taste...I seriously think you're consuming LSD with your coffee.
Read the description and reviews (bottom one is mine) of this coffee: https://topecacoffee.com/shop/africa/ardi-ethiopia/
Last edited by corwin1968; 03-03-16 at 02:21 PM.
03-03-16, 02:27 PM
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One thing I like about these threads is that coffee is one of the few subjects that allow this forum to discuss other viewpoints without the arguing that usually develops by now when the subject of chain lube, tires, lights, helmets, spandex etc... comes up.
03-03-16, 02:38 PM
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The first time I drank Starbucks Sumatra (15-20 years ago, when Starbucks was a lot newer and probably had higher quality because they didn't need to source so much volume), I was blown away by how good it was, and the impression I got was not necessarily that it was sweet or creamy, but the smoothness made it feel creamy (relative to poorer coffee where lack of body is compensated for with cream), and the lack of bitterness or sourness made it seem sweet (relative to poorer coffee where bad taste is covered up with sugar)
03-03-16, 04:09 PM
#84
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I haven't purchased any quality dark roast beans, all of mine having been light roasts. The beans (Topeca's Kenya Nyeri Peaberry) I'm using now were one of the top rated in the country last year and it's quite easy to get a bitter or sour cup if the brewing variables aren't correct.
I also think there is a wide range of tolerance among people for the tastes of coffee. I suspect I'm on the very finicky side and need a near-perfect cup to be satisfied. I've read a lot of threads on coffee and many people aren't picky...if it tastes like coffee and has caffeine, they are happy.
I also think there is a wide range of tolerance among people for the tastes of coffee. I suspect I'm on the very finicky side and need a near-perfect cup to be satisfied. I've read a lot of threads on coffee and many people aren't picky...if it tastes like coffee and has caffeine, they are happy.
Anyway, he gave me instructions for cold brewing coffee. You've probably already heard of this technique or tried it at least once. If not, there are instructions readily available online. Cold brewing preserves the coffee flavor exactly as the fresh grounds smell. Nothing else can match it. The tricky bit is adding hot water and heating up the cold brewed concentrate. It's easy to get it a little too hot and spoil the delicate flavor. And it's very expensive - you don't get as many cups per batch of ground coffee. But it's delicious.
03-03-16, 04:10 PM
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How do you like the Bonavita? Is it comparable to some of the manual brewing methods? I've heard good things but have never drank coffee brewed in a high level machine. I love the idea of a drip machine but haven't taken the financial plunge because I'm not quite convinced I can get the quality of coffee I want.
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03-03-16, 04:21 PM
#86
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For really fine, delicate coffee, decades ago a coffee shop owner taught me a trick that worked well. It was the first custom coffee shop I'd ever seen, in the mid-1970s in San Diego. I think the owner was Israeli, if I'm recalling correctly. Anyway, nice fellow and showed me how to roast green coffee beans in a pan (he said a wok was just about perfect for this).
Anyway, he gave me instructions for cold brewing coffee. You've probably already heard of this technique or tried it at least once. If not, there are instructions readily available online. Cold brewing preserves the coffee flavor exactly as the fresh grounds smell. Nothing else can match it. The tricky bit is adding hot water and heating up the cold brewed concentrate. It's easy to get it a little too hot and spoil the delicate flavor. And it's very expensive - you don't get as many cups per batch of ground coffee. But it's delicious.
Anyway, he gave me instructions for cold brewing coffee. You've probably already heard of this technique or tried it at least once. If not, there are instructions readily available online. Cold brewing preserves the coffee flavor exactly as the fresh grounds smell. Nothing else can match it. The tricky bit is adding hot water and heating up the cold brewed concentrate. It's easy to get it a little too hot and spoil the delicate flavor. And it's very expensive - you don't get as many cups per batch of ground coffee. But it's delicious.
03-03-16, 04:28 PM
#87
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I was so pissed when I learned they hadn't started selling beer...
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03-03-16, 04:32 PM
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I love extraction chemistry.
I spend my days in a lab performing extractions and characterizing what is in said extractions.
I use about forty grams of beans, ground course with a blade grinder, water just below boiling (stop kettle before it boils or let it cool from boiled), a timed steep for 2.5-3 minutes depending on which bean I use. Allow to cool and settle in the bodum. Pour into preheated thermos and contigo mug. Enjoy for the next 4-12 hours.
I spend my days in a lab performing extractions and characterizing what is in said extractions.
I use about forty grams of beans, ground course with a blade grinder, water just below boiling (stop kettle before it boils or let it cool from boiled), a timed steep for 2.5-3 minutes depending on which bean I use. Allow to cool and settle in the bodum. Pour into preheated thermos and contigo mug. Enjoy for the next 4-12 hours.
03-03-16, 05:31 PM
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This thread has taken off...I love it! The last two mornings have been with the drip machine, and while I thought I got the reusable k cups down pretty good, yeah no. Reminds me to go set it for tomorrow before I tinker on some bikes and forget
03-03-16, 06:18 PM
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I have a very hard time finding coffee that I enjoy outside of the home. I had found one place next door to a place I used to get my hair cut that once gave me a delicious cup of drip. They were a few blocks from the hospital. Fast forward.
It was tough when I was in the hospital. So I had asked my mother in law to get me a cup from there. It was not good and I tried a few more times and it still wasn't good, it was disappointing like finding, as someone previous put it, the unicorn but learning it is really just a deformed donkey.
Luckily the coffee shop in the lobby of the hospital had okay coffee, but 18 weeks of hospital coffee was bad.
We once house sat for some folks. I used their stove top percolator and it made some delicious coffee. I should invest in one actually.
When we go house sit I bring my own coffee, filters, and pour over apparatus.
It was tough when I was in the hospital. So I had asked my mother in law to get me a cup from there. It was not good and I tried a few more times and it still wasn't good, it was disappointing like finding, as someone previous put it, the unicorn but learning it is really just a deformed donkey.
Luckily the coffee shop in the lobby of the hospital had okay coffee, but 18 weeks of hospital coffee was bad.
We once house sat for some folks. I used their stove top percolator and it made some delicious coffee. I should invest in one actually.
When we go house sit I bring my own coffee, filters, and pour over apparatus.
03-03-16, 06:53 PM
#92
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I buy beans at Costco and grind them medium for a french press or fine for a stove top espresso maker. We have a countertop hot water dispenser so the process is, for all intents and purposes, instant. I hadn't been thinking about it but it's time for a cup...
A local green bean emporium tells me that roasted beans begin to deteriorate immediately after roasting but that green beans have a very long shelf life. I've not yet tried any home roasting but here's a link if you're interested: Roastmasters.com - Everything for the home coffee roaster
BTW, I've learned that fresh coffee stays fresh for a long time if it's allowed to cool and reheated in the microwave. It doesn't seem to develop any bitterness if heat is not being applied.
And a question for American caffeine fiends: why is milk so hard to come by in US restaurants and coffee shops? When I ask for milk in my coffee they often look at me as if I have two heads. Is that the way it is or has my limited sampling skewed my impression?
A local green bean emporium tells me that roasted beans begin to deteriorate immediately after roasting but that green beans have a very long shelf life. I've not yet tried any home roasting but here's a link if you're interested: Roastmasters.com - Everything for the home coffee roaster
BTW, I've learned that fresh coffee stays fresh for a long time if it's allowed to cool and reheated in the microwave. It doesn't seem to develop any bitterness if heat is not being applied.
And a question for American caffeine fiends: why is milk so hard to come by in US restaurants and coffee shops? When I ask for milk in my coffee they often look at me as if I have two heads. Is that the way it is or has my limited sampling skewed my impression?
Last edited by asmac; 03-03-16 at 07:04 PM.
03-03-16, 08:00 PM
#93
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I have a very hard time finding coffee that I enjoy outside of the home. I had found one place next door to a place I used to get my hair cut that once gave me a delicious cup of drip. They were a few blocks from the hospital. Fast forward.
It was tough when I was in the hospital. So I had asked my mother in law to get me a cup from there. It was not good and I tried a few more times and it still wasn't good, it was disappointing like finding, as someone previous put it, the unicorn but learning it is really just a deformed donkey.
Luckily the coffee shop in the lobby of the hospital had okay coffee, but 18 weeks of hospital coffee was bad.
We once house sat for some folks. I used their stove top percolator and it made some delicious coffee. I should invest in one actually.
When we go house sit I bring my own coffee, filters, and pour over apparatus.
It was tough when I was in the hospital. So I had asked my mother in law to get me a cup from there. It was not good and I tried a few more times and it still wasn't good, it was disappointing like finding, as someone previous put it, the unicorn but learning it is really just a deformed donkey.
Luckily the coffee shop in the lobby of the hospital had okay coffee, but 18 weeks of hospital coffee was bad.
We once house sat for some folks. I used their stove top percolator and it made some delicious coffee. I should invest in one actually.
When we go house sit I bring my own coffee, filters, and pour over apparatus.
Another trick, if you or a family member is stuck in hospital for awhile, is to learn which nurses really love their coffee. They'll take extra care to keep good supplies and a fresh pot brewing.
Unfortunately fewer hospitals provide good free coffee anymore, now that most have a paid coffee service with mediocre coffee at gourmet prices. Some hospital cafeterias have drinkable coffee, but you have to hit them just before peak mealtimes.
In and Out Burger joints are nothing special in terms of food, but I've found the local joint is willing to brew a fresh pot upon request even if you only want one or two cups, even near midnight. Not bad.
03-03-16, 10:36 PM
#94
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Occasional home roaster myself (beans from Sweet Maria's). Buy locally roasted beans sometimes. Other times, buy roast to order from a few select roasters I've found on the internet. Currently going through a 5 pound bag of Deadman's Reach from Raven's Brew.
I've got brewing methods coming out of my ears. My preferred method really depends on the beans I currently have on hand and how much time I have. Enjoy the Chemex or French Press but use the Technivorm drip out of convenience most mornings and it does a nice job. I can beat the pants off of most lattes, for taste, with my La ****iale Dream espresso machine. My milk steaming is still inconsistent though. It's a skill I just can't seem to master. Sometimes I nail it and other times I miss the right texture.
I've got brewing methods coming out of my ears. My preferred method really depends on the beans I currently have on hand and how much time I have. Enjoy the Chemex or French Press but use the Technivorm drip out of convenience most mornings and it does a nice job. I can beat the pants off of most lattes, for taste, with my La ****iale Dream espresso machine. My milk steaming is still inconsistent though. It's a skill I just can't seem to master. Sometimes I nail it and other times I miss the right texture.
03-03-16, 10:50 PM
#95
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That was too broad a statement. I have had black coffee that was sweet and creamy (it was a very highly rated coffee brewed in a French Press) but that might have been more about that specific variety. There are most likely coffees that do not fit that description.
Read the description and reviews (bottom one is mine) of this coffee: https://topecacoffee.com/shop/africa/ardi-ethiopia/
Read the description and reviews (bottom one is mine) of this coffee: https://topecacoffee.com/shop/africa/ardi-ethiopia/
The first time I drank Starbucks Sumatra (15-20 years ago, when Starbucks was a lot newer and probably had higher quality because they didn't need to source so much volume), I was blown away by how good it was, and the impression I got was not necessarily that it was sweet or creamy, but the smoothness made it feel creamy (relative to poorer coffee where lack of body is compensated for with cream), and the lack of bitterness or sourness made it seem sweet (relative to poorer coffee where bad taste is covered up with sugar)
03-04-16, 06:10 AM
#96
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I grind Sumatran Italian Roast by peacecoffee.com and sip it (black) from a french press each morning.
03-04-16, 08:37 AM
#97
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For those who frequent coffee shops, what is your go to beverage? I go for an Americano 9 times out of 10. I try to hit one up once or twice a week. Going every day gets expensive, and excessive if I am making coffee at home as well.
03-04-16, 08:39 AM
#98
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Best. Coffee. Ever. Death Wish Coffee
Since I'm the only one who drinks coffee in the house, I buy their k-cup option to brew in the Keurig. I usually drink a cup before leaving the house, and drop an unused kcup in the mug on my way out the door to brew in the keurig at work. The cafes en-route aren't open early enough (I ride to work at 3am!) and the 24hr options( McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts) simply suck.
I second the opinion on here that if you have to put cream/milk and sugar in your coffee you shouldn't be drinking coffee. I drink mine black, straight up and quite frankly that's the only way to drink it.
Since I'm the only one who drinks coffee in the house, I buy their k-cup option to brew in the Keurig. I usually drink a cup before leaving the house, and drop an unused kcup in the mug on my way out the door to brew in the keurig at work. The cafes en-route aren't open early enough (I ride to work at 3am!) and the 24hr options( McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts) simply suck.
I second the opinion on here that if you have to put cream/milk and sugar in your coffee you shouldn't be drinking coffee. I drink mine black, straight up and quite frankly that's the only way to drink it.
03-04-16, 08:53 AM
#99
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After the tsunami hit the island a few years ago the price went through the roof. Same thing happened to Kenyan when that country went into termoil. Two of my stand bys. A pain when anything from the weather to politics affects your addictions.
Coffee is the 2nd most traded commodity in the world after oil.
03-04-16, 10:06 AM
#100
Senior Member
I buy beans at Costco and grind them medium for a french press or fine for a stove top espresso maker. We have a countertop hot water dispenser so the process is, for all intents and purposes, instant. I hadn't been thinking about it but it's time for a cup...
A local green bean emporium tells me that roasted beans begin to deteriorate immediately after roasting but that green beans have a very long shelf life. I've not yet tried any home roasting but here's a link if you're interested: Roastmasters.com - Everything for the home coffee roaster
BTW, I've learned that fresh coffee stays fresh for a long time if it's allowed to cool and reheated in the microwave. It doesn't seem to develop any bitterness if heat is not being applied.
And a question for American caffeine fiends: why is milk so hard to come by in US restaurants and coffee shops? When I ask for milk in my coffee they often look at me as if I have two heads. Is that the way it is or has my limited sampling skewed my impression?
A local green bean emporium tells me that roasted beans begin to deteriorate immediately after roasting but that green beans have a very long shelf life. I've not yet tried any home roasting but here's a link if you're interested: Roastmasters.com - Everything for the home coffee roaster
BTW, I've learned that fresh coffee stays fresh for a long time if it's allowed to cool and reheated in the microwave. It doesn't seem to develop any bitterness if heat is not being applied.
And a question for American caffeine fiends: why is milk so hard to come by in US restaurants and coffee shops? When I ask for milk in my coffee they often look at me as if I have two heads. Is that the way it is or has my limited sampling skewed my impression?