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Old 12-17-16, 08:22 AM   #1
mcours2006
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Upgrade to 10-sp or not?

My main winter commuter and sometimes grocery getting machine is a 9-sp triple Tiagra set up, which works fine, though I can't remember the last time I was on the granny gear. I've got a 13-25T on it right now with the studded tires.

Bianchi.jpg

My other sometimes commuter is a 9-sp Sora CX setup, with a 46-36 up front and 11-32 up front. Again, works fine, though I am rarely on the 36T ring, nor the 32 cog on the back.

IMG_0032.jpg

So I recently pick up a near-new 10-sp 5700 compact groupset for a really good price, and am trying to decide if I should put it on one of the bikes, and if so, which one.

First off, I don't like the exposed shifter cables. It doesn't look tidy and gets in the way of head lights. I've got a bunch of 11-25T 10-speed cassettes so not like I'll need to buy new, though I'd prefer something like 12-28 or 12-25.

Second, the left 5700 shifter isn't the most smooth shifter, requiring extra force to shift up. The 3500 and 4500 left shifters, on the other hand, work buttery smooth. I am willing to make that trade-off for the cosmetic benefits.

I could go with a triple crank on the Bianchi does not match the black 105's. The black Sora on the Norco does, so I could go with a 46-36 and a 10-sp 11-25.

Anyone want to weigh in on this? C'mon, we've gotten 40cm of snow here in the last 72 hours, so I know none of you living in the NE are out riding your bikes today.
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Old 12-17-16, 10:11 AM   #2
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Two summers past I went from 13-23 9spd to 14-25 10spd (rear shifter, derailleur, cassette & directional chain,) thusly filling-in the 20 cog. The crank and front shifter/mech remain(s) 9spd. It works just fine, and has proven to be more durable than anticipated.

Regarding aesthetics, I've a rackbag and panniers...I'll just show myself out 8^/.
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Old 12-17-16, 10:17 AM   #3
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BTW, I yard-saled that exact Bianchi (stock 100gs group and box rims) in 2005 for $15--for a friend. Lady seller said it was her SO's "racing bike." Lol people will tell themselves anything.
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Old 12-17-16, 10:43 AM   #4
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Yeah, mine's a hand-me-down from my my sister, who's 5 inches shorter than I am, but bought it way too big for her. It was a riser bar with, yeah, what do you call them? box rims. I converted the whole thing to drop bar. Only frame is original. Pretty decent ride, actually, if not a tad heavy.
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Old 12-17-16, 10:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Yeah, mine's a hand-me-down from my my sister, who's 5 inches shorter than I am, but bought it way too big for her. It was a riser bar with, yeah, what do you call them? box rims. I converted the whole thing to drop bar. Only frame is original. Pretty decent ride, actually, if not a tad heavy.
I have that frame, still mostly stock from new. It is a '97 model. I rode it for about 10 years. Then it became a backup bike. Then I gifted it to my son as an around town bike. Now that he has outgrown it, it is once again a backup bike.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother going to from 9 to 10 speed.
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Old 12-17-16, 01:19 PM   #6
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I didn't bother 'Up Grading' from 7 speed my self , but for Going to The 14 speed Rohloff.

(3 x 3 speeds*, used twice, in high and low range)
[Yes savvy mathematicians, 3x3 is nine, but in the planetary gear world , 3 of them are 1:1, so only 1 is used]


'Speeds' is a Parts Tally .. Actual Gears are Ratios of teeth counts..





...
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Old 12-17-16, 01:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Anyone want to weigh in on this? C'mon, we've gotten 40cm of snow here in the last 72 hours,
Ive had a Mountain Bike with Suomi (thats Finnish , in Finnish) Nokian studded tires for 25 years ..

It is ready to go whenever the road gets Icy-snowy .

this week that was not the case, PDX 150 miles inland had its sub zero C surprise precip and challenge,,
and a Big business for towing and Body repair companies ..

By the Sea It just got Cold.. year-round springs do make Icy patches

So I rode that Bike on mostly cold Bare Pavement..

Picked up traction add-ons for My Shoes so To not fall on my Butt on Black Ice Like I did last year

when crossing over the mountains to PDX . and getting out of the Studded tire fitted Van in a Parking lot at 1000 feet elevation.




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Old 12-17-16, 02:02 PM   #8
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I wouldn't put 10-speed on a commuter unless I got sponsored.
9-speed wears fast enough.
Winter bike has 7-speed. Lasts as long or longer in a lot poorer conditions.
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Old 12-17-16, 02:10 PM   #9
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Shimano 10 speed road (before the new Tiagra 4700 10 speed) is the most sensitive system to any cable/housing dirt, imperfection, as well as very sensitive to any play in RD pivots and misalignment of the RD (11 speed is the only worse on that account).

So for commuting I don't see 10 as an "upgrade". Especially the pre-Tiagra 4700 10 speed.


Whenever looking for "upgrades", I always ask people: "what do you want to upgrade? What is your goal? Faster shifting? Easier climbing gears? What exactly you need to improve on the bike and what do you expect the new upgrade will bring?" Then I can give some useful advice to help that particular person on their particular bicycle.
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Old 12-17-16, 02:23 PM   #10
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I hear what y'all saying. Going from 9 to 10 speed isn't really much difference, and deep down I know this, of course....But, if you were to do it, which bike, and why?

Maybe I ought to look for another frame on which I can put the groupset. LOL.
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Old 12-17-16, 03:32 PM   #11
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I commute mostly on 3x9speed and the only thing I would ever want to do to my drivetrain is upgrading to a better 9 speed groupset.
10 speed is much more expensive and wears faster so I don't see the point of having more gears for commuting.
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Old 12-17-16, 03:43 PM   #12
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For my taste the stock gearing of road groupsets is too high for a commuter bike. 105 is a nice level, though
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Old 12-17-16, 04:47 PM   #13
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I have found it easy to avoid 10-speed until I realized I needed to give my 1x7 commuter a greater beast-of-burden capacity for occasional longer jaunts with the fam where nobody else would carry cargo.... so 10 spd with 11/36 was the solution (chainring remains the same 42t job the bike has always had, back when it was 42/17 FG to the present)
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Old 12-18-16, 12:55 AM   #14
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My 9-speed triple shifts much nicer than my 10 speed compact double. However, I don't find myself ever using the 30 tooth chainring on the front of my triple. Then again, if I commute with my road bike with the 10 speed double, I never use the 34 tooth chainring either.

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Old 12-18-16, 01:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I hear what y'all saying. Going from 9 to 10 speed isn't really much difference, and deep down I know this, of course....But, if you were to do it, which bike, and why?

Maybe I ought to look for another frame on which I can put the groupset. LOL.
If I really had to use the 10 speed on one of the two bikes, I'd go with the CX one. It's less likely to carry lots of cargo. Though I'd keep the current crankset - 46-36 sounds much more useful than 34-50 IMO. Perhaps even keeping the original FD, if it was designed for 46 big chainring. If it's a standard road double FD for 53-50 big ring, then of course, I'd use the 105 fd.
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Old 12-18-16, 08:34 AM   #16
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My commuter is a 1x9 with 12-36 cassette, have a road bike that is 1x10 with 11-36 cassette (different size chain rings). In good weather commute with them interchangeably, cannot say the gearing really makes a difference. Bike geometry and set up - does, road bike is faster.
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Old 12-18-16, 10:10 AM   #17
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I have a Bianchi Avenue and wife has an Advantage. Both are 7 speeds. Avenue was actually a 6, but I recently spun on a mega range 7 speed freewheel and replaced the triple crank with a SS unit. Works well for me.

Quote:
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So I recently pick up a near-new 10-sp 5700 compact groupset for a really good price,
Really good price, as in you could sell it at a profit? That's what I would do.
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Old 12-18-16, 10:21 AM   #18
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Really good price, as in you could sell it at a profit? That's what I would do.
Yeah, I bought the entire groupset for less than what I was willing to spend on the STI shifters alone. Great shape too. I think the seller had the bike for a short time and then upgraded to 11-speed.
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Old 12-18-16, 10:26 AM   #19
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If I really had to use the 10 speed on one of the two bikes, I'd go with the CX one. It's less likely to carry lots of cargo. Though I'd keep the current crankset - 46-36 sounds much more useful than 34-50 IMO. Perhaps even keeping the original FD, if it was designed for 46 big chainring. If it's a standard road double FD for 53-50 big ring, then of course, I'd use the 105 fd.
That's what I was leaning toward as well. And I agree about the 46-36. If that's the case then I'd replace the wide 9-sp with a wide 10-sp gearing, like a 12-28 or 11-32.
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Old 12-18-16, 12:21 PM   #20
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you can get wide range cassettes small & largest tooth count differences, without more "speeds" ie number of cogs.

you buying new brifters too, you probably need a new right one, at least.

9 & 10 are different index sets.
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Old 12-18-16, 08:25 PM   #21
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I would totally put in on the Norco bike. If 5700 has the same ergonomics as 5800 that would be worth the upgrade to me, plus the hidden cables look way better.
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Old 12-19-16, 08:07 AM   #22
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I would totally put in on the Norco bike. If 5700 has the same ergonomics as 5800 that would be worth the upgrade to me, plus the hidden cables look way better.
That I don't know, but I do like the ergonomics of the 5700 hoods better that of the older Sora and Tiagra, and the hidden cables was one of the reasons I cited for wanting to change.
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Old 12-19-16, 08:36 AM   #23
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Another vote for putting the 5700 groupset on the Norco. Looks like a nice bike. Another advantage of 10-speed (or anything relatively recent) is availability of parts. Its behind the curve a bit to not be too costly. But not too far back to be a PITA to get parts for it. Well, 9-speed parts should be easily available too (replaced an Ultegra 6500 rear derailleur earlier in the year). I have been wanting to replace the 6500 drivetrain with the Dura Ace 7800 stuff I bought used form a friend. Only missing parts are the brifters. And 7800 brifters are too pricey, IMO. Maybe could try the newer Tiagra or Ultrgra 10-speed brifters instead?

The Bianchi looks nice but seems a little too small. Would be a good investment to get a bigger frameset and move the parts over to it maybe? Probably not nigh priority since its a rain bike...

Edit: I see some Ultegra 6600 brifter on Ebay starting at $70: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Ulte...-/351931778512 Maybe can get something like this on the cheap.

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Old 12-19-16, 09:00 AM   #24
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@ptempel, DA of any generation is pricey. I bought a left 7800 shifter last summer that came with a malfunctioning right one for a song and thought I could possibly take it apart and fix, but haven't been able to. I've got a set of malfunctioning 7900 shifters sitting around that could be used for spare parts if the working ones on my Roubaix were to fail.

You're probably right about the Bianchi being a size too small. I don't know the exact size equivalent as it was once a hybrid, but I'd have to guess around a 51 cm. I ride a 54 cm normally, but it fits fine as a dropbar convert.

Ultegra 6600 brifters should be quite reasonable in terms of price, but I find that the bidding on eBay usually gets ridiculously high. It'd preferable to find them locally. Personally I'd love to get a set of 6700 brifters, but they, unlike 5700's, seem much more rare around here.

I don't know about the pull ratios on the new 4700's, but they'd be an attractive option if one didn't to replace the RD or FD>
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Old 12-19-16, 09:40 AM   #25
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Ultegra 6600 brifters should be quite reasonable in terms of price, but I find that the bidding on eBay usually gets ridiculously high. It'd preferable to find them locally. Personally I'd love to get a set of 6700 brifters, but they, unlike 5700's, seem much more rare around here. I don't know about the pull ratios on the new 4700's, but they'd be an attractive option if one didn't to replace the RD or FD>
I've read that the pull ratio changed with 4700 brifters. So I think I have to stick with older gen 10 speed brifters or use a converter. Shimano also changed the brake pull with the newer calipers. But have read that its usually ok to use newer brifters with older calipers. You just lose a little bit of brake force doing that. You get into trouble with locking wheels up with too much force the other way around (old brifters with new calipers).
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