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Old 04-13-17, 09:19 AM   #1
Daniel4
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Trespassers during morning commute

Road construction has recreated congestion that some morning commuters have taken up to trespassing through my employerís parking lot instead of making the right turn at the traffic light.

When I arrive at work, I recognize who these trespassers are because 1) they donít have the level of patience as a motorist who has already arrived at work has 2) theyíre still in a hurry and zoom past me and run all the stop signs in our parking lot.

Iíve already notified security about this but letís face it, thereís very little they can do except if they are willing to have a person stand in the parking lot all morning from 7:30 am stopping cars where trespassers exit.

My point here isnít about the trespassing. We do it all the time. The point is the safety. When youíre on somebody elseís property that you know you shouldnít be, have consideration of the people who belong there and look after their safety.

..Asking a motorist to be considerate?
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Old 04-13-17, 11:16 AM   #2
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I agree with you. I 'trespass' onto a large company's property which has a wide roadway cuts through a busy section of the city with a 6-lane heavily congested road. And yes, I am quite mindful of being respectful to the laws there. Ultimately it is still trespassing, and illegal, and if I'm ever cited for it, then I shouldn't be surprised nor begrudge it.
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Old 04-13-17, 11:40 AM   #3
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Certainly a lot would depend on the property. Is it marked "Private Property"? "Employees Only"?

I've turned around in business parking lots, or perhaps briefly stopped for one reason or another. Generally retail parking.

On my bike, there are a couple of parking lots that I'll cut through.
  • One, 4 lane? road, no shoulders, planning a right turn 1 block ahead, long parking lot, just makes it easier.
  • Turning onto a 4 lane, semi-divided road. Needing to make a left turn about 1 block ahead, sometimes it just makes sense to cut off and stay left rather than crossing all 4 lanes too get to the bike path, then making my way back to the left side to turn a block later.

As you mentioned, road construction places unique demands on traffic flow. And, apparently some people see your business roads (with stop signs) as an extension of the road system.

I can't think of many large private campuses around here, but I might consider cutting through a shopping mall lot if I thought traffic moved better that way (except shopping center lots often move slowly).
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Old 04-13-17, 11:49 AM   #4
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My point here isnít about the trespassing. We do it all the time. The point is the safety. When youíre on somebody elseís property that you know you shouldnít be, have consideration of the people who belong there and look after their safety.

..Asking a motorist to be considerate?
Oh no, I can't really recall ever cutting across a parking lot to bypass a light either on my bike or in my car.

Your security team CAN notify them they are trespassing and tell them to leave and not come back.
Once they do that, they can call the cops and have them beaten and tossed off the plane, er I mean property.
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Old 04-13-17, 11:57 AM   #5
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our little town had a similar situation w a new CVS parking lot in my town. ppl cut thru the lot instead of driving down the street to the light to get to the other side of town. some young (& sadly some not so young) go screaming into the CVS lot w no regard for safety. there are children walking w moms & old ppl walking to get their scripts. one time, one of them almost hit me & I yelled at them to slow down, they just flipped me off & kept going, looking at me instead of where they were going

you might call your local cops & let them know there is a threat to public safety even if it's private property. they can easily park a marked car at that spot for a day or two. certainly better than the possible alternative
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Old 04-13-17, 12:42 PM   #6
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Pretty sure it's illegal to use private property as a throughway.
It's absolutely illegal to use private property to avoid a traffic control device like a light or stop sign.
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Old 04-13-17, 02:18 PM   #7
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well, the cop would have to witness the entire path of said vehicles. meaning, if he just stakes out in the parking lot he can't stop someone & make accusations

our cops sometimes stalk speeders on the street that our condo complex is on. they sit on our private property. we certainly don't mind cuz they are protecting us who are trying to enter traffic in a blind spot
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Old 04-13-17, 02:21 PM   #8
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..Asking a motorist to be considerate?
That's where you went wrong...
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Old 04-13-17, 02:23 PM   #9
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Pretty sure it's illegal to use private property as a throughway.
It's absolutely illegal to use private property to avoid a traffic control device like a light or stop sign.
Yup. I once late at night after waiting AGES for a light to give me a left turn so I could make it to my house 200 yards away, gave up waiting for the light and turned into a Pizza Hut parking lot, and then on out the other side of the parking lot (Pizza Hut was closed, parking lot was empty). A cop stopped me for "avoiding a traffic signal". It was a long time ago, I think due to the circumstances he let me off with a warning.
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Old 04-13-17, 02:26 PM   #10
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Hey, I'm walking here!


Dustin Hoffman says this was an ad-libbed line since it was an open set of sorts filming on NYC streets
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Old 04-13-17, 03:06 PM   #11
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..Asking a motorist to be considerate?
Asking a motorist to be considerate on a commuter cyclist forum .
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Old 04-13-17, 03:59 PM   #12
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As long as driver follow ettiquet of safe driving in parking lot, I don't see what is a problem, except nit picking. You choose to a business on a busy intersection...you are going to get a lot of traffic.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 04-13-17 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 04-13-17, 04:20 PM   #13
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As long as driver follow ettiquet of safe driving in parking lot, I don't see what is a problem, except nit picking. You choose to open a business on a busy intersection...you are going to get a lot of traffic.
Per OP, the drivers are not driving safely or with etiquette in the parking lot. That's the problem.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:54 PM   #14
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Pretty sure it's illegal to use private property as a throughway.
It's absolutely illegal to use private property to avoid a traffic control device like a light or stop sign.

This.

Circumventing a traffic control device is a crime just about everywhere. If, by doing so, these drivers are also endangering the safety of workers and/or anyone else utilizing the parking lot, it may be time to involve your local law enforcement agency. If this area happens to fall within a recognized "construction zone", these careless drivers may be in violation of other traffic laws as well.
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Old 04-13-17, 08:29 PM   #15
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Oh, I see. OP was talking about motorists trespassing...makes sense. Never mind. Carry on.
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Old 04-13-17, 08:57 PM   #16
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I often have to 'run' left-turn stop lights. simply because 'they' don't 'see' me.

Joe
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Old 04-13-17, 09:12 PM   #17
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Hmm If the parking lot has several entrances just block one off so it is not accessible as a through road. Problem with security is they cannot just detain someone for trespassing, they have to tell them to leave the property.
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Old 04-14-17, 07:35 AM   #18
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This.

Circumventing a traffic control device is a crime just about everywhere. If, by doing so, these drivers are also endangering the safety of workers and/or anyone else utilizing the parking lot, it may be time to involve your local law enforcement agency. If this area happens to fall within a recognized "construction zone", these careless drivers may be in violation of other traffic laws as well.
This is my thought also. I've seen drivers get away with it for months, until one day the businesses complain and a patrol hands out dozens of tickets. They're just bypassing a traffic light and leap-frogging 10 or 20 vehicles, usually too fast for a parking lot. Technically we shouldn't do it on a bike either, but no one cares.
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Old 04-14-17, 07:49 AM   #19
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Per OP, the drivers are not driving safely or with etiquette in the parking lot. That's the problem.
Per many posters on BF, no drivers of motorized vehicles ever drive safely enough to satisfy them or with proper etiquette as defined by them.

Whining about those mean ole motorists is just more grist for the BF mill.
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Old 04-14-17, 10:32 AM   #20
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Technically we shouldn't do it on a bike either, but no one cares.
When I do it on a bike, it's for safety, not convenience. There's one intersection that I sometimes travel where I can cut through a large parking lot where traffic is sparse and very slow, and avoid a crazy intersection with 5 multilane roads coming together with a very odd traffic light and things are always a little weird and a little unpredictable.

Usually I just stay on the road.
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Old 04-17-17, 02:37 PM   #21
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Sometimes I cut through a grocery store on my bike or car. Basically what happens is this.

I need to make a left turn at the light coming up. There is ALWAYS a ton of traffic coming from the other way and there is no green arrow. If I'm heading to that traffic light, but see it is red, I'll make a left into the grocery store lot about 200 meters before the light. Cut through the lot, then make a right onto a street that meets up with the street I need to be on.

Or, if I see there are a bunch of cars coming and I won't be able to turn left if I go all of the way to the light, I'll quickly turn left into the lot instead.

Am I bypassing a traffic control device? Yes. Is there a good reason? Yes. Sometimes you'll sit in the left turn lane at that light for the entire cycle and not able to turn.

That said, I always go super slow in the parking lot.
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Old 04-18-17, 07:03 PM   #22
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Local cops around here have been known to sit in the CVS lot at an extremely busy intersection and bust people for cutting through to avoid the traffic light.

As far as "trespassing" goes, if the parking lot and/or drive is open to the public, with no gates or other access control, then it's not really trespassing. Doing something like tailgating a car through an entry gate when you shouldn't be there is absolutely trespassing.
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Old 04-19-17, 10:01 AM   #23
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Temporary speed bumps:

https://www.trafficsafetystore.com/speed-bumps-humps

Explain the problem and ask the construction company to install them, if they won't, call in the city.
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Old 04-19-17, 01:16 PM   #24
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Iíve already notified security about this but letís face it, thereís very little they can do except if they are willing to have a person stand in the parking lot all morning from 7:30 am stopping cars where trespassers exit.
One place I worked security, there was a client employee with a giant beater 1-ton truck, who would occasionally tell us to put the cameras on the main entry road for a while.

He would then go out and watch for people cutting through the lot, so he could cut them off where the crossing lane intersected the main entry. Never did get anybody to hit him, but he did have some of them jump out screaming until he unfolded all 6'6" of himself out of the truck and pointed at the stop sign they had been in the process of running. If I was on duty, I usually took that opportunity to ask for their employee ID, and if they didn't have one, let them know that they'd be facing a trespassing charge next time they entered the property. I usually didn't bother to do the followup paperwork to file notice of criminal trespass unless they kept making trouble, though.
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Old 04-19-17, 01:31 PM   #25
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As far as "trespassing" goes, if the parking lot and/or drive is open to the public, with no gates or other access control, then it's not really trespassing.
No idea about Canada, but in some places, a simple "private drive" or "no through traffic" sign can count as access control.

As for "we do it all the time," the only place I did it on any sort of regular basis on the old commute was a lot with a fast food place and a couple of other stores; if the light was red, I'd swing in and grab a burrito or hit the Dollar Tree for a $1 24oz sport top Gatorade. On the current commute, I'll swing into the edge of a car wash lot to avoid the spot where the shoulder runs out at the intersection I turn right at, and then picks up again about 30 yards past it. Both roads have moderate to heavy 40+ mph traffic, so I don't care for taking a lane for ~50 yards at a pinch point just to duck right back out to a 8-10' wide smooth shoulder if I can avoid it.
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