Patriot

I have a truck that I drive maybe once a week to work, and a toyota corolla that I drive as well. I only commute to work 2-3 times a week on my bike at most, since my schedule just doesn't allow for more riding.
Since gas is getting so expensive, and the cost of maintaining my truck is getting high, and the car is new, so I don't want to rack up its mileage, I have been considering one of these as an alternative. They are very inexpensive, and cost very little to maintain.

What does this have to do with cycling? Well...

1. What I am wondering, is if getting one of those cute 150cc scooters that gets about 60-80mpg of gas is worth it? Are they fun and safe to ride?

2. Does anyone here ride one of these when your legs are too tired to ride the bike? And does it tend to make you want to ride it more than the bike? Meaning, does the cheap use of gas, low cost of maintenance, and convenience tend to draw you away from the bike when it normally would not?

I am very concerned about how one of these may subconsciously affect my cycling. I don't want to become a lazy slug by using the scooter all the time, but I am still trying to find something cheaper to use than a car, and simpler to ride/operate than a full-size motorcycle.

sbhikes

I do not know about that particular model, but I have a 2005 Vespa ET4 150cc. They are fun and safety is relative and highly dependent on you. I crashed my first one, so this is my second one. I think a bicycle is safer.

I ride my scooter when I need to run errands after work, such as pick up a prescription before the drug store closes. I can't do that on my bike. The scooter doesn't cut into my bicycling time so much as it has nearly eliminated the need to drive a car.

The model you show probably is low cost, but the Vespa costs a fortune. An oil change or new tire is easily $100 or more. (I gotta learn to change my own oil!) I had a Honda Elite once, and the cost of ownership was very minimal.

You could easily become a lazy slug. Scooters are fast, fun and you get free parking. But they are cold on cool days. Riding a bike warms you up. It's really up to you to find a reason to keep riding your bike.

GP

I have a Honda CH80. It's fine for around town but it can't go on the freeway. I wouldn't take a 150 on the freeway either - just not fast enough.

Not sure what kind of scooter you posted pictures of. I waould avoid the real cheap Chinese clone scooters. Be sure to buy a scooter that has a parts and service network available in your area. TNG is the only mainland Chinese scooter with a decent reputation.

Scooters are great, they are fun and easy to ride. I use mine to commute (3.5 mi, mostly residential streets) a couple of times a week. I can wear regular shirt, tie and slacks instead of changing at the office.

Before you purchase, come over to the Yahoo TwistnGoScoot group and ask some specific questions.

phidauex

I've got an Aprilia SR50 Ditech, its a 50cc, but goes an easy 50mph with a derestricted engine and an aftermarket pipe (I've got a Gianelli). Its also one of the cleanest and most efficient, because of the fuel injection system. It gets about 90-110MPG, depending on how I drive it, and it produces no visible smoke. I love it.

The way I figure, there are different types of trips that I take:

Commutes to work
Short errands
Long errands
Errands with people or heavy things
Long trips

Each of these trip types might be 'leisure' if timing isn't critical, or 'priority' if timing is critical.

If you own just a bicycle, some of those trip types, especially long errands in priority mode, will not be possible. Now, you can plan your life around that, and make it work, but its not for everyone.

If you own a car and a bicycle, then you can easily do leisure short errands, leisure long errands, and commuting on the bike, and the rest by car.

If you own a car, a scooter, and a bicycle, then you can further replace auto use by using the bike for the leisure short errands, leisure long errands, and commuting, and then the scooter can take priority short and long errands, commuting on days when you just don't feel like it (which come up), and some errands with things or people, if your buddy doesn't mind riding pillion (which can be lots of fun).

I was bike/scooter only for about 5 years, and it worked well for me. Eventually I got to the point where I started needing to take longer and longer trips out of town, and my other activities were beginning to require that I haul stuff, so I bought a station wagon.

I suppose what I'm saying is that my scooter doesn't 'replace' any trip types that I would normally do on bike, and the car doesn't 'replace' any trip types that I would normally do on bike or scooter, each new type of transportation just adds new trip types to my menu, so to speak, and then handles that new trip type.

Anyway, scooters are crazy fun, and can be very fast and practical in a city environment. You can park them anywhere, they navigate traffic jams almost as well as a bike, and they have very fast acceleration and braking for nimble riding.

peace,
sam

phidauex

As to brands, the nicer Yamahas are nice, Malagutis are nice, Aprilias are very nice (I've owned two) and pretty fast, Hondas are nice, Vespas are well built but slow, Piaggio and Puegeo are nice but hard to find sometimes, and Derby's are OK. I'd avoid any chinese make, since they just aren't up to par right now. Japanese and Italian are generally good choices. If you plan on 'hopping it up' a bunch, look for a carb'd model, but know that they take a lot of work to make fast, but have a lot of potential. They also get worse gas mileage, and make more pollution. Fuel injected versions, like the Aprilia Ditechs are typically faster in stock form than the carb'd models (especially when software derestricted), but can't be tuned up to the same level. They are cleaner, and get better mileage, and tend to just run a little better. They are also more expensive.

peace,
sam

Elvish Legion

Don't you still need a motorcycle lincese to be able to legaly drive one? If so why not just buy a small motorcycle?

Elvish

slvoid

I think below like 100cc, you don't need a license.
The only thing is, for the price of a scooter, you might as well buy a 250cc motorcycle, cause those at least you can get up to high way speeds with. The difference in price is maybe 500 bucks.

sbhikes

Yes, you need a license. But the advantage of a scooter over a motorcycle is the twist-n-go thing. No gear shifting.

Also an advantage is the floorboard for your feet. You can carry large objects there.

Patriot

I kinda like the idea for convenience, and running around town. I can also let my wife use it. She can't shift a motorcycle. The automatic is nice. Alot like a snowmobile. Anyway, the brand I am looking at is Strada. They are a chinese make, but I have read they are one of the best ones (of the chinese brands), as there is alot of low quality Chinese stuff out there. I don't have the cash for a Yamaha or Honda.

I really am not sure if want one of these or not. Just tossing around ideas for something cheaper than another car. As of right now, I really don't NEED one. Just looking.

GP

Washington classifies a bike smaller than 50cc as a moped. You don't need a motorcycle endorsement for a moped but you still need a drivers license.

phidauex

50cc is usually the legal cutoff for 'motorcycle/moped'. On the moped level, you don't need an M license in most states, just a regular driver's license. Also, they typically don't need registration or insurance, or at least have more relaxed guidelines. Some states, like California, don't distinguish between motorcycles and mopeds at all.

People complained when I bought my scooter. They said, "For just a tiny bit more you could have a 'real' motorcycle!" But there are a lot of reasons why a scooter can still be a better choice. It gets better mileage! Most cheaper 500cc bikes get in the 45-55mpg range, about half what my scooter gets. They are dirtier, and hotter, and you can't park them on the sidewalk like you can a scooter. I can put my scooter ANYWHERE, and no one cares, because its a scooter. Park your cheap used crotch rocket on the sidewalk, and see how long until someone yells at you. Motorcycles with chains need more frequent maintainence, and aren't as comfortable to ride. For city driving, a constant variable transmission is much nicer than a clunky 5sp on a cheap motorcycle. A scooter weighs less than 200 pounds, but a 500cc is going to weigh closer to 400 pounds, which means a lot for navigating and moving it around in small places. They also have more to break. A single cylinder 2-stroke with a dry-running CVT is one of the simplest types of motor vehicle drivetrains in the world, and it is incredibly easy to service. Constrast that with an inline 4 with chain drive and manual transmission. Lots more to break!

So anyway, if you want a motorcycle, thats fine, since there are some things they are better at, but when I moved to St. Louis, I owned a Ninja 250, a CBR 919RR and an Aprilia SR50 scooter. I sold the other two, and kept the scooter. Bigger engine /= better. If you are planning on driving mostly in the city, in urban environments on short trips, then a scooter is probably the best choice, if your ego can handle it. If you are taking long trips, or NEED the highway to get where you are going, the a motorcycle becomes more worthwhile.

peace,
sam

aoeuaoeu

are these the same things as mopeds?

phidauex

Mopeds and scooters are different, mopeds have pedals, and look more like a bicycle. A scooter has a flat-foot seating area, a fairing, and no pedals.

However, under 50cc, the law usually lumps them into the same category (usually called 'mopeds').

peace,
sam

Dchiefransom

They are selling Vespas at a BMW dealer near my work. I went in to scope them out. $4,000 for the ones near the door. I left quickly. 75 mpg though.

robertsdvd

I'd like to get a real moped for fun -- the ones with actual pedals... like the ones you can see most recently in the new Willy Wonka... mostly just for fun and to mess with -- they don't go fast at all.. but I don't understand why they call mopeds today mopeds when they're actually scooters... as I recall Honda sells scooters but calls them mopeds, but they don't have any pedals... uh <shrug>

Patriot

The ones I show pics of above are the newer ones made in China that are coming out by Strada. China as usual, got a bad rap a few years ago for making really poor quality scooters, but the new ones apparently are really good. The one shown is $1700 shipped.

sbhikes

The $4000 for the Vespa is for the cool factor. I admit it, I paid that price. It's very cool. I've gotten lots of waves from Harley riders, lots of looks from people on the street, lots of passersby ask me questions, and I've had my picture taken for magazines. Our local Vespa shop is a hangout. The Honda dealership isn't.

phidauex

My first Aprilia was 2800, it was stolen, and insurance gave me 2300, and I used it to buy another lightly-used Aprilia. It doesn't have to be super expensive.

peace,
sam

CastIron

Same scoot. Same experience. Really, it's just another option. Kinda like a 10 speed cassette.

Cyclon

As of January 1, 2005 all you need is a Class C license for a scooter/moped.
(As stated by the DMV in the California Motorcycle Handbook)

Santaria

Just priced out Yamaha's myself: $1,500 range for a 2006.

mguisado

I ride a motorcycle, bicycle to work as much as I can and drive a car sometimes. I find the bicycle almost the same as the motorcycle when it comes to safety. With one significan difference. On a motorcycle/scooter you are in traffic, with a bicycle you have to option to be out of traffic. This ups the danger level of a scooter. They go fast enough to cause serious bodily harm in a crash. I suggest that at minimum you get a motorcylce jacket and full face helmet for those just in case moments.

Otherwise, ride on.

tom cotter

I own a Honda Reflex scooter. At 250cc it's has enough power to do freeways. It's easy to ride, very user friendly and gets 75mpg. New ones are available for about $4000. Even though a Reflex was used in the 2001 Ironbutt Rally and completed the ride from Alabama to Alaska and back I use mine for the 25 mile round trip commute into Philly. Great little errand runner and a blast to toss around. It handles like a miniture sport bike. For longer rides my other motorcycle, a BMW K1200LTC gets the nod. It gets between 47 and 51mpg on the highway. Somewhat less if I'm spending a lot of time in the hammer lane or riding two up. City riding knocks that down to about 42mpg. It has the double advantage of being quicker off the line than a Corvette and getting better gas mileage than a Civic. As big as it is, it will still out corner any sports car. Fun!

Any motorcycle will deliver good gas mileage. Scooters have made a resurgence lately and are available up to 650cc. Nice looking machines and fanastic commuter platforms. As for the smaller, under 100cc scooters, lots of fun but lacking in everyday utility. They're too small for anything but local streets and low speed roads. They lack carrying capasity. However, they're good city bikes. I see lots of them on the streets of Philly.

Most scooters are motor vehicles requiring license and insurance. They are not a practical replacement for a bicycle, but could be for a car.

They are fun to ride, but if you love bicycling you can find room for both.

-=(8)=-

I commuted on a Stella, an Indian company who made certain
Vespa models for Vespa. As a lifelong motorcycle rider, the Stella
was possible the funnest motorized vehicle Ive ever owned. Two-stroke,
4 speed, 4 speed twist grip shifter and about 90- 100 miles per gallon
made it utilitarian as well.
STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING CHINESE !!!! ESPECIALLY E-BAY CHINESE !!!
This cant be stressed enough. You might get years out of a cheep-0
x-Mart bicycle but scooters are different. You might be left with an expensive,
unrideable mound of plastic and pot-metal a month after you get it.
There is a scooter BBS (www.scooterbbs.net, I think ???) you should read for
a few weeks before you make a decision.

jeff-o

Sweet, I've been thinking of getting a scooter to further reduce my car use, but there's just one problem:

WINTER

How do they perform when the air is icy and the roads are slushy? Is it even worth it?