scr1be

okay, i had a hardrock stolen 3 months ago so now i'm buying a new bike.

i had a u-lock on it attaching the frame to the pole.

i don't want to make the same mistake again so this time i'm going to be buying a kryptonite new york 3000 lock. is this the best u-lock i can get? i read a review that said it was but i'm not sure if maybe the master-lock u-locks are better.

first, if that's the best one, then good. my second question is, how do i properly use it?

i looked at this site: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

and he says to lock the rear wheel between the triangle. is that why my bike got stolen? that's how i'm supposed to use it? everywhere i go i see people locking their frame, which makes perfect sense to me. in the picture above, he locked it only to his wheel. wouldn't that mean that if he could break the wheel, then he can just take the frame? would it not be smarter to lock the rear wheel AND part of the triangle instead of the MIDDLE of the triangle?

i don't understand.


lastly, i heard that i should use a combo u-lock and a cable lock because thieves need 2 different types of tools to do the job. is the true? if so, can you recommend a cable lock or something that i can use in addiition to the u-lock?

also, can you tell me how to properly use the cable and u-lock combined. i know there is a lot to do with leverage and stuff so wrapping a cable lock around everything probably isn't a good idea.

oh, and one more thing, i saw these "cuff" locks from master-lock
https://www.masterlockbike.com/master...=streetcuff_ss

which seem like something that can be used in addition to the u-lock instead of a cable lock. would that be better? and if so, how are they used exactly?

i'm basically just looking for the perfect combination of locks (two max because i don't want to carry more than that, and also no big huge chain lock)

scr1be

oops, i just realized this is in the wrong forum. can somebody move it to commuters or wherever it should be?

i forgot you guys are mountain bikers who probably wouldn't know much about this since you don't really commute on your 2000 dollar bikes.

Ricardo

That's OK. Many of us (at least I do) like mountain biking and also commute in a bike. I bought a u lock from a company called On Guard, it is very similar to Kryptonite but a little cheaper. It came with the cable in order to attach the front wheel.

I've used that combination with good results. Remember that the lock is just a deterrent. Thieves are lazy and will choose to steal the bike with the least secure lock in the rack.

Take care and happy commuting,

Ricardo

gingerbread

i had mt Scott Voltage YZ0 stolen in january. since then ive been useing 2 U locks. 1 around the back wheel frame and the thing i am locking it to. The 2nd around the front wheel and the thing i am locking it to or the front wheel and the frame. This prevents the quick release wheels from being stolen. The 2 U locks i have we not really expencive ( around £20) but they seem to do the job.
Hope this helps

scr1be

ill make the questions a bit easier to understand because i see my post was just a bunch of ramble.

1. is the ny 3000 the best u lock i can get?

2. is it correct to lock the rear wheel to the pole between the triangle? would it be better to lock the rear wheel to the pole but also include the frame within the U of the lock?

3. what kind/brand cable lock should i get in addition to the U lock? if not the cable then how about the master lock cuffs?

4. what is the correct way to use the cable/cuffs after i have locked the rear wheel and triangle of bike? do i loop it through the main frame and front wheel? if you have experience with the cuff... how do they work? i can't tell by just looking at them.

Beckler

1. From Kryptonite? Their best is just the New York Lock--the one with the yellow bar. I think the NY3000 is the same thing but they don't call it that on the website.

2. If you can include the frame you might as well. Do it as in that picture, and the wheel would still have to be cut to get the bike--which I guess someone could do.

3. Forget about cables and get the New York Fahgettaboudit chain (also Kryptonite). Hope you're into weightlifting though.

4. Dunno.

Don't forget to lock to something solid--more solid than the locks themselves, that is. Makes no sense to use 20 lbs of locking hardware to lock to a chain link fence.

Curtis_Elwood

Check out the product flash movie link on the right side of the Master Lock page you provided. It shows you how to properly use their product.

scr1be

i didn't notice the movie. thanks!

i've decided on getting the street cuffs. after reading reviews, it seems as though those are the absolute best on the market. i'm going to team it up with a regular cable lock.

supcom

You should reconsider your decision to get the Street Cuffs.

The NY3000 is about as good as a Ulock gets. Get one and it's unlikely that anyone will defeat it.

You can run the lock through a frame member as well as the rear whell if you like, but cutting a rear wheel is not so easy and would destroy most of the value of the bike to a thief so it's unlikely that one would go to the trouble just to get the frame.

Forget cable locks. A thief can cut them with little trouble. Instead, to protect your front wheel, either remove it and place it next to the rear wheel so the Ulock goes through both wheels, get a second Ulock, or get a security cable and padlock (Kryptonite or OnGuard make good ones) The chain is heavy but if you are locking up to the same place everyday, you can leave the chain locked p and not carry it around.

Maelstrom 

wow so many new people posting here haha. Anyways I will move this to commuting for ya. I know my first instinct was to answer "don't bring the bike with you" or "have a place inside the build to store it" but those are't always options when commuting.

Thread Moved
Maelstrom
Admin

CBBaron

I don't have much experience locking bikes but I thought I'd just mention to make sure what you are locking to is secure. For instance make sure that the pole you lock to is secured to the ground and there is something above your lock securly attached that is too big to slip the lock over. I imagine that often times with a good lock it is much easier to defeat the lock by working around it than breaking the actual lock.
Craig

Walkafire

Guess I have been lucky...

With all the "extra's" I have added to this MTB (Trek 7000 1994) to make it a GREAT commuter, I imagine it is starting to look pretty enticing to some passerby, I have seen some turn and look at my bike after I lock it up. Might have to get the Cable/U-lock combo from On Guard... looks pretty good. Will check out their Insurance/Warranty?

georgiaboy

Some persons may have an expensive saddle like a Brooks. The cable or chain can be run through the saddle as well. If you ride you bike to work and you can't put your bike inside the building you may be able to keep the heavy chain or cable at work.

biodiesel

If you lock frame to pole a theif can use the frame of the bike as leverage to pull twist or try to break your lock.
Lock the rear wheel inside the triange to a post, you cant get the rear wheel out, and the wheel is as hard to cut as the lock, actually a bit harder since it's under tension but if your concerned lock the seat tube or one of the rear triangle posts too. Locking the rear wheel to the triangle or seat tube is known as hobbleing the bike and makes the bike unrideable even if someone gets it off the post you lock to.

My favorite tecnique and one that's popular in the better books is known as cross locking. It's using 2 different locks. Using 2 different types of lock means a thief will have to have 2 different tools.

My favorite for weight, security and vesatility;
An Onguard Brute Mini U-lock and an Onguard Armored Cable/ Combination Lock.
I hobble the rear wheel or lock rear wheel to a post.
Then lock the front wheel and frame to post, or just to each other (to secure the wheel)
When i lock up for long or in an unsecure area I take the front wheel off and lock the post to the wheels through the triangle (securing both wheels) and then lock with the cable.
If you commute to work, buy a heavy chain and leave it there. Then use your regular locks as backups. If someone wants YOUR bike they'll jack it from work. If you have a big chain a cable and a ulock it'll take more than 10-15 minutes even with a mini grinder.
Overkill? Sure.

grolby

Well...

1. Maybe. Not necessarily. The primary security feature of a U-lock is the width of the shackle. The narrower it is, the harder it is to get a jack in there. A jack or similar device is one of the most popular ways of cracking a U-lock. If someone has a Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel and is really determined, no lock will save your bike. Still, getting the toughest lock you can will make it a less tempting target.

2. YES. Locking the frame alone is a BAD IDEA. It not only makes stealing the wheels a snap, it makes it easier to steal the entire bike. A thief cutting through the rear wheel is not a realistic concern - it is both extremely difficult and destructive to the value of the bike (the rear wheel is the most expensive part of the bike, after the frame. You can lock the seat tube and rear wheel if you like, but you only NEED to lock the rear wheel, and doing so will let you get away with a skinnier U-lock shackle, which increases your security.

3. This depends upon who you ask. Some people think that two locks are heavy and a waste of time. Let's face it - stealing a front wheel will be easy whether you secure it with a cable or not. You might as well, I suppose, but if you're locking your bike in a place where this is a serious concern, it might make more sense to replace your quick-release axle with axle nuts instead and just carry the appropriate-sized wrench as part of your tool kit. Even better, get a locking QR (these can be hard to find). If this isn't feasible, then you can lock it. I don't bother, myself. If the front wheel is stolen, I can get a replacement for relatively little money. However, I do take my bike indoors at home. In areas with higher crime, or if you just don't feel secure, by all means lock the front wheel! With regards to the Master Lock cuffs - don't do it! They are easy to break. Get a cable.

4. Frame and front wheel; frame, front wheel and rear wheel; frame, front wheel, rear wheel, and object rear wheel is locked to. Either one is about as effective as the last. All the thief has to do is cut the cable, no matter what it's attached to. This is why a cable should never be your primary lock. It's pretty easy to defeat.

Yoshi

I would strongly advice against getting the street cuffs. Masterlock (in my opinion) does not make very good locks. I'd stick with Kryptonite and On Guard.

With that out of the way, if you plan on using a U-Lock, buy the small U-Lock that you can fit around your bike and whatever you usually lock it to. Thieves break U-Locks by sticking a lever (pipe, 2x4, etc) into it and twisting. By minimizing the amount of "free space" you make it difficult to lever attack. If you can get a U-Lock small enough so it only fits around the rear rim and whatever you are locking to, that is ideal. However if your U-Lock is large enough to fit part of the frame as well I would recommend including that because the most important thing is to minimize the amount of free space.

A cable lock can be useful to lock up any other components (wheels, seat, etc) but don't rely on it to keep your bike safe. A pair of bolt cutters will cut through just about any cable lock.

Two locks are better than one, and three are better than two. I carry a NY chain and a cable lock on me, and I keep a U-Lock at my school. The chain goes around my frame and front wheel, the U-Lock around my frame and rear wheel (it's a large U-Lock, I bought it before I really knew better) and the cable goes through the rear triangle, rear wheel and the saddle rails.

biodiesel

>"Some people think that two locks are heavy and a waste of time. Let's face it - stealing a front wheel will be easy whether you secure it with a cable or not"

small point here...
What about the bic pen lesson? What happens when the $75 lock turns out to be a dud? Then even if my other lock is easy to break, it's not succeptable to the same flaws.
This lesson keeps rehappening. Before the bic pen debacle it was small metal shims that would pop the mech, or the simple twist of soft u-locks or one specific brand of lock that's found to be sucepptable to some simple tricks.
I used to use Master Cuffs until i read about a simple trick to pop them. But i always used an xtra lock.
Again, i'm not competing with NYC theives with grinders but with the average bike thief (not that high tech...) I would have foiled the bic pen thieves, the Master cuff poppers or the early u lock twisters or shimmers. I know i've outdone some cable cutters, lock smashers, pin hammerers etc. So far i've had 3 attempts at stealing my bikes that were foiled by a second lock. Also, i got in the habit of checking my front wheel when i parked at work (downtown Denver) overnight (night shift) cause i found the QR open, but alas the cable saved my wheel.
And weight wise... mini u lock and a cable. Not that heavy at all.

scr1be

okay 3 people just said that the master lock cuffs are not good, but aren't tehy fairly new? there's already a way to get by them? they come with a 3500 dollar anti theft warranty.

now i'm debating whether to get the kryptonite ny 3000 or the master lock street cuffs.

i'm already sure htat i will be purchasing an onguard cable lock. and thanks to you guys now i'm sure of how to lock it.

but now what should i get? the u lock or the cuffs? from reading i hear the cuffs are a brand new thing and are really hard to break. if only the 2005 bike lock test included the cuffs.

biodiesel

reviews on the cuffs were not good.

go with the NY 3000, it's one of the hardest ot there. Too bad though i like the design of the cuffs. I kept using mine as a second but the mechanism froze up/ rusted and i couldn't get them working reliably.

scr1be

alrighty then. thanks for everybody's help.

kryptonite new york 3000 u-lock along with a combination cable lock is what i'll be getting.

too bad the cuffs got bad reviews. i thought they were going to be very good.

peripatetic

Another point to consider: what kind of bike are you riding? I ride mainly beaters, and I've become fairly certain that a glance at my bike just doesn't invite much interest from someone looking to turn a quick buck for a drug buy here in NY. If you're bike's worth a goodly sum of cash, you probably want the Kryptonite NY3000. But I warn you, this lock is as cumbersome as they come. I have one, but only use it when riding with someone else, otherwise, I use an OnGuard Bulldog Mini. It's about the same as the PitBull, but the PitBull has a thicker, heavier bar lock. Thing is, if a thief's got a saw, they're not going to cut this anyway, they're going to cut the shackle, so it doesn't matter, and the Bulldog Mini is lighter.
I like the Bulldog Mini a lot, and I liked the price even more. It's small clearance makes locking to a suitably narrow base hard, but once on there, it's just dang secure. I don't think I often have room to lock anything other than my rear wheel, sans frame tubing, to the post. Just to elaborate on cutting the wheel, too: if one does saw at the rim from the inside, it's actually going to get harder and harder to cut the more progress you make, because the rim will be clamping down on the sawblade.

But if you're in some ex-urb or suburb, you might be more concerned about a true professional who knows what he's doing and knows what he's looking for. Try and know your robbing demographic. If this is the case, I'd say that crosslocking is probably important, but it can be a total PIA.

My bikes all have 27" rims, and I think that in and of itself makes them a lot less desirable: the wheels just don't look all that hot, and they're just not even worth that much. I've come to the conclusion that the wheels probably entice a thief as much as your frame. Nice wheels always look nice, no matter how much uglifying one attempts, and crappy wheels just look crappy.

If you're parking in the same place everyday, I'd say you should just get a Krypto NY lock and leave it there. But if you're all over the place, be warned: the thing is heavy as heck. I'm a big fan of the OnGuard locks, esp. the mini, for portable security. And lock by bikes that are nicer than yours, or not as secure, or both. You can't make your bike theft-proof, but all that matters is that it's more theft-proof than its immediate neighbors.

Good luck with this, and if you're looking to read more, then look up posts by AllanBikeHouston; he seems to know everything about everything about locks and locking strategies. In face, I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread yet.

scr1be

thanks for the input. i guess i'll look at both the mini and the ny 3000 u-lock and see if the weight difference really bothers me.

i never thought about leaving a lock a place that i'll be locking it to. that just seems weird. guess i would be scared that the city or university think that nobody is using it and it was just left there somehow, so they would have it cut or removed somehow. but now that i think about it, i guess they can't have it removed even if they wanted to unless they had the tools.

biodiesel

Some universities will occasionally cut empty locks or get upset about them. If so, find an abandoned bike that's been there awhile and lock that up. Then park next to that bike. Walla. Lock ready.

LóFarkas

Or, alternatively, tell the doorman about why you leave the lock there.

rideabike

What do people think of the mini locks with the "LS" designation? Does having the long shackle defeat the idea of using a mini so that people can't get leverage to pry it?

https://www.bikesomewhere.com/bikesom...t/39/1285/6410