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Old 08-31-05, 07:58 PM   #1
vrkelley
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Peds "fight back"

Anyone had experience with Peds retaliating on the street or trails??

I was coming around the corner on a MUP trail, and saw a large raspberry branch stretched across the trail with some commotion in the bushes. I get off the bike and move the tire-popper and get back on...around the next curve is a crowd of people picking berries and scooter again-also across the trail. kids everywhere!

I get off again and ask a kid about that scooter. Then "Mama Grizzly" comes charging out of the bushes ramp'n and ready to tell me off! So I tell her I wouldn't want a kids' toy to get crushed. So she realized their "plan" is stupid and goes back to scoop up the scooter...

Don't the peds have sidewalks and entire parks? Why do they have to take over the trails too?
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Old 08-31-05, 08:00 PM   #2
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They can have them. MUP trails are a good place to get hurt or worse.
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Old 08-31-05, 09:24 PM   #3
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I feel your pain, but don't forget the "MU" stands for multi-use.

My favorite is the time that I got into an argument--that probably overstates my own involvement--with a guy who insisted that bicycles were not allowed anywhere on the grounds of Jamaica Pond.

I kept respectfully asking him where I could find any rules that said anything other than bicycles were not allowed on the pedestrian path (there is an old bridle path that is designated for cyclists and I was off road at the time, besides). He kept saying things like, "You think you can just go anywhere you want, don't you? That's the way you people think!"

I felt bad for his young daughter who was standing nearby as he verbally abused someone who wasn't bothering them in the least. (I happened to be pausing to catch my breath during some snow riding when he started to unload.)
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Old 08-31-05, 09:41 PM   #4
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You should pulled your glock, held it sideways, and been like, "it'd be a shame if your brains ended up on your friend's shirt over there. Now, I've got 13 beans for the 4 of you, are you feeling lucky?"
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Old 09-01-05, 06:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by slvoid
You should pulled your glock, held it sideways, and been like, "it'd be a shame if your brains ended up on your friend's shirt over there. Now, I've got 13 beans for the 4 of you, are you feeling lucky?"
Anger management, buddy, anger manangement.
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Old 09-01-05, 06:16 AM   #6
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For awhile there were stories about hikkers boobytrapping trails that were either open to MTB'ers or being pirated by them.

Thin lines strung accross trails at neck height, ruts dug to catch a wheel etc. Don't know how many were rumors but i remember reading a statement by rangers that anyone doing so would be charged under the old "tree spiking" law making it a felony assault...

Personally i've had a couple failure to yeild (5 abreast taking the whole trail and refusing to let me walk by) or yelling that i should ring a bell when i shouted left (or yelling that i should shout on your left if i rang a bell) (same lady 2 days apart)...
Those i don't get mad at... I pull over and dismount and offer to discuss the situation until we've reached a civilized understanding... (Had one group so nervous i thought they'd pepper spray me! And in every case the ped went off... skulking...
Had a couple homless guys set traps along a dark path in the city, broken bottle bottoms laid like spikes in the shadows and a guy jumping out... bunny hopped just in time, almost hit the guy and took off club in one hand... called the cops, never saw it again.

Otherwise just good passing etiquite. Ring a bell and coast for three strokes past the peds and they seem to be happier. If you get angry peds, get a squeaky toy horn. It's hard to be angry at a squeaky toy horn.
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Old 09-01-05, 06:59 AM   #7
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A few years ago a turned a corner on a MUP and found a line of rocks spread across the trail. There wasn't much traffic that time of day, and I didn't see anyone nearby. Cleared the path and moved on.

Have seen broken bottles on the trails a couple of time. Earlier this year a piece of bamboo from a trailside stand was snapped at the base and bent across a trail. I don't know if these last two were deliberate, but the line of rocks certainly was.

Most problems are failure to share the trail, sometimes accidental, sometimes deliberate.

Last edited by cc_rider; 09-01-05 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 09-01-05, 08:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodiesel
For awhile there were stories about hikkers boobytrapping trails that were either open to MTB'ers or being pirated by them.

I pull over and dismount and offer to discuss the situation
Personally I like slvoid's glock idea but when I dismounted and walked over it diffused the whole mess. They haven't been back with booby traps so maybe we're good to go.
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Old 09-01-05, 09:32 AM   #9
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Hmmm. One thing that really gets me angry are natural areas "pirated" by mountain bikers. Mountain bikes really cause a lot of wilderness damage, churning up mud, ripping up roots. Bad for the ecosystem and, main point, highly annoying to hikers.

There are plenty of areas available to mountain bikers, why do they feel the need to rip up protected lands also? I have a certain sympathy for the booby trappers there, although only in a facile way. I really don't want to see anyone hurt. I just want to see the land protected.
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Old 09-01-05, 09:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejack
Hmmm. One thing that really gets me angry are natural areas "pirated" by mountain bikers. Mountain bikes really cause a lot of wilderness damage, churning up mud, ripping up roots. Bad for the ecosystem and, main point, highly annoying to hikers.
So do mudslinging offroaders and even some bushwhacking campers. A responsible mountain biker works with land management agencies to insure that they ride in appropriate areas, on properly designed and maintained trails. The first two IMBA rules of the trail are to only ride open trails and to leave no trace.

You should be careful who you paint with your broad brush.
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Old 09-01-05, 09:59 AM   #11
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My mountain bike club is building trails in parts of town where people use the seclusion of remote, wooded space to dump trash and construction waste, abandon old appliances and cars and hide from the cops while they deal and use illegal drugs.

When we build trails, we do so in assiduous accordance with the established guidelines for making routes that are sustainable, do not encourage erosion, and do not encroach on established pedestrian trails. We haul out the trash, and our increased presence diminishes the area's attractiveness to the dopers.

I'm sorry - what was this thread about, again? :|
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Old 09-01-05, 10:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by biodiesel
Thin lines strung accross trails at neck height
The last time I saw something like that was in WWII, where the hell are you biking where people are stringing piano wire across trees?
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Old 09-01-05, 10:38 AM   #13
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I've heard the wire thing before but never heard of anyone with first-hand experience.

On the other hand, there are plenty of first-hand stories of rocks, nails, pits, broken glass, and logs being placed on trails to thwart cyclists.
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Old 09-01-05, 10:57 AM   #14
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I saw a guy on TV awhile back that was a victim of the wire thing. He was riding a dirtbike and hit one in his throat. He lost his voice box and had to talk with one of those mechanocal simulators for years.
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Old 09-01-05, 11:54 AM   #15
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I saw a guy on TV awhile back that was a victim of the wire thing. He was riding a dirtbike and hit one in his throat. He lost his voice box and had to talk with one of those mechanocal simulators for years.
I used to really be into dirtbikes/ATVs, and one of the areas we rode in was a neighborhood where the builder went bankrupt and just left all these abandoned homes and trails everywhere. Anyway, years later some other company came in there and started refurbishing what was left of the neighborhood. By this time the area was a well established place for great trail riding. The construction workers during the week would set all kinds of traps for us (holes covered with debris, wires tied across trees, glass on the ground, etc.), even in places that were nowhere near the homes. Luckily no one ever got hurt, but it's a shame that people have to go there.
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Old 09-01-05, 12:29 PM   #16
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Experienced the "wire" this morning myself on my new route It was about axial height and as I made the turn onto the trail there it was....thanks for the heads up. would have dropped the bike otherwise
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Old 09-01-05, 12:36 PM   #17
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the wires strung across paths sounds really scary. not just for the physical harm that it causes, but also because it means there are people out there who don't care what the results of their illegal actions are. it's indiscriminate violence that's almost untraceable to the perpetrator and that's scary.
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Old 09-01-05, 12:39 PM   #18
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some guys did the wire trick here on an estalished trail, only they used barbed wire that they scavenged form an old fence nearby.

they strung it between some trees at neck/chest level in a woody location and they only secured one end of the wire, so you'd hit it and then it would rip along you, while you stopped.
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Old 09-01-05, 08:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bostontrevor
The first two IMBA rules of the trail are to only ride open trails and to leave no trace.
That may be their rules, but it's not everyone's rules, and it only takes a few idiots to wreck things. All the trails that I hike that allow mountain biking, you can tell where the mountain bikes go; there's sometimes 2 or 3 feet more erosion where they have been riding; they make their own ditch.

Where I went to college, there was a big waterfall on private land. It had been a favorite place to visit for decades. About my 3rd year in college, in the mid-80's, mountain bikes became big in the area, and I started seeing them back there for the first time. There was a buried hunk of PVC drainage pipe across the main trail in one spot; it had been just peeking out for the 3 years I'd been there, and later I asked other alumni and they said it had been the same for at least 10 years before. The next year, after about a year of mountain bikes, the ground was totally eroded away, the pipe broken, and the trail was nearly a foot lower than it had been.

The following year, after 80 years of it being a favorite hike in the area, the owner fenced it off due to the damage.

I'm sure there are plenty of responsible MTB'ers, but there's also a whole lot of idiots on WalMart bushwackers.
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Old 09-01-05, 10:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by bostontrevor
So do mudslinging offroaders and even some bushwhacking campers. A responsible mountain biker works with land management agencies to insure that they ride in appropriate areas, on properly designed and maintained trails. The first two IMBA rules of the trail are to only ride open trails and to leave no trace.

You should be careful who you paint with your broad brush.
I think my post made it pretty clear I wasn't discussing responsible mountain bikers!

Unless "pirate mountain bikers" refers to some responsible activity, I was referring specifically to mountain bikers who tear up places they're not supposed to be. And I get even madder about motorized vehicle owners who do the same thing.

(There's a strange little desert in central washington -- Juniper Dunes -- that has an area designated for buggy drivers and a protected area. It's amazing how different things are on each side of the fence. I am very glad when an area is designated for motorized off road sports because that means the rest is properly protected.)
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Old 09-01-05, 10:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by slvoid
The last time I saw something like that was in WWII, where the hell are you biking where people are stringing piano wire across trees?
Here in Colorado people string wire across ditch roads, mostly for the "benefit" of people on small 4-wheelers. Property owners also do it across streams and rivers to stop boaters from using "their" rivers.
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Old 09-02-05, 07:53 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by bluejack
I think my post made it pretty clear I wasn't discussing responsible mountain bikers!

Unless "pirate mountain bikers" refers to some responsible activity, I was referring specifically to mountain bikers who tear up places they're not supposed to be.
Actually, you talked about areas "pirated" by mountain bikers, not "pirate mountain bikers" and then went on to complain about the damage done by mountain bikes and mountain bikers, not once indicating that you understood that there are those who are responsible and at least as sensitive to the damage that can be done by those who are not. I'm glad it was just a miscommunication.
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Old 09-02-05, 08:34 AM   #23
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Good lord, I gotta get a neck guard if I ever went out there..
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Old 09-02-05, 09:26 AM   #24
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There was an article on Cycle Oregon sometime in winter about some local cyclists that had been caught in boobytraps recently. The two I remember both were on commuter bike lanes. In one situation someone had placed a ring of large rocks in the bike lane and covered it with leaves. That caused a nasty wreck, I don't remember the specifics though. The other traps I rember was one of the neck wires. The biker was moving rather fast, so it probably would have been fatal, but it just happened at the time that the biker was off the bars and upright. The wire caught the biker in the chest and sent her to the hospital.

The worst kind of coward set these up.
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Old 09-02-05, 11:40 AM   #25
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I don't get it, how is that wire any different than setting up an anti personel mine in the middle of a path?
Wouldn't that be premeditated murder if someone actually died and the person who set it was caught?
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