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Old 09-08-05, 09:31 AM   #1
gmacrider
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Etiquette when behind Ladies

Yesterday I had the good fortune to be following what appeared to be an attractive female biker. She was moving at a very good pace and I would've had to pick it up a notch to pass her. So I decided to stay behind her for a while and admire her perfectly formed uh, panniers. Oddly, I completely forgot about my straining muscles and the fire in my lungs.

After a bit it occured to me that she might be a little uncomfortable thinking there is some guy behind her whose top priority in life has suddenly become her beautiful caboose. So I made sure not to follow too close.

I'm wondering what the ladies think when they're being tailed. Should we suck it up and pass them even if it means going faster than we'd like? I don't think twice about following a guy (if the pace is good) - as a matter of fact I've learned a few things by examining gear on bikes I've been following. Do we have a double-standard here?

I'm looking forward to the ride home tonight.
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Old 09-08-05, 09:52 AM   #2
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This is one of the creepier posts I've read in a while.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:05 AM   #3
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you owe(d) her a pull. same as you would any other cyclist, male or female. Koffee, mace, STAT! (I just wanted to do that twice in ten minutes)
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Old 09-08-05, 10:21 AM   #4
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This is one of the creepier posts I've read in a while.
Well, you are easily creeped out. Guys like to look, it's just a fact of life. They are not evil, they are hard-wired this way. Most male riders would admire the "panniers" of a girl they are following for a while and not even think about any etique-shmetique.

To answer the question, I am a female and I am not bothered if there are cyclists of whatever sex following me. There is no harm in looking.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:23 AM   #5
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I would'nt do it under any circumstances. It might cause me to crash...
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Old 09-08-05, 10:25 AM   #6
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Personally, I don't like being tailed at all--by a man or a woman. I'll look back and let them know I know they're there, and encourage them to pass me.

Think about how the woman would feel if you were both walking down the sidewalk, and you were tailing her. Not good.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:32 AM   #7
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Koffee, mace, STAT! (I just wanted to do that twice in ten minutes)
awwww yeah!!!
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Old 09-08-05, 10:33 AM   #8
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Personally, I don't like being tailed at all--by a man or a woman. I'll look back and let them know I know they're there, and encourage them to pass me.

Think about how the woman would feel if you were both walking down the sidewalk, and you were tailing her. Not good.
If people are so damn paranoid that someone else is walking/riding/driving on the same street with them, they should go lock themselves indoors where they're out of my way.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by chephy
Well, you are easily creeped out. Guys like to look, it's just a fact of life. They are not evil, they are hard-wired this way. Most male riders would admire the "panniers" of a girl they are following for a while and not even think about any etique-shmetique.

To answer the question, I am a female and I am not bothered if there are cyclists of whatever sex following me. There is no harm in looking.
^ Agreed.

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Old 09-08-05, 10:35 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by chephy
Well, you are easily creeped out. Guys like to look, it's just a fact of life. They are not evil, they are hard-wired this way. Most male riders would admire the "panniers" of a girl they are following for a while and not even think about any etique-shmetique.

To answer the question, I am a female and I am not bothered if there are cyclists of whatever sex following me. There is no harm in looking.
Thank you! I admire your spine and fully functional brain.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:46 AM   #11
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If people are so damn paranoid that someone else is walking/riding/driving on the same street with them, they should go lock themselves indoors where they're out of my way.
But there's a difference between simply "walking/riding/driving" on the same street in general, and "tailing". If you're following someone the way gmacrider was describing, I just don't think that's right. Of course I don't think gmacrider was out to harrass the woman biker, he was just admiring her, but I'm saying that he should be aware that he might make a woman rider uncomfortable if he tails her. It doesn't sound like the particular woman he was tailing had a problem with it, but someone else (like me) wouldn't have appreciated it.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by superdex
you owe(d) her a pull. same as you would any other cyclist, male or female.
Right on. And, if you can't pull, ask her if she minds if you draft for a bit. If you are dropping back to avoid being caught, but so that you may continue to gaze upon her buttocks, that is creepy. And if she felt the same way, that would be justified.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:57 AM   #13
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Yeah, it is pretty sad/creepy.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:02 AM   #14
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If you want to pass, pass. If don't think you can pass and maintain your pace, drop back and follow at a reasonable distance, OR go ahead and ride beside and perhaps make a new friend. There's so few of us female commuters that at least this one appreciates a friendly howdy.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by commutercat
But there's a difference between simply "walking/riding/driving" on the same street in general, and "tailing". If you're following someone the way gmacrider was describing, I just don't think that's right. Of course I don't think gmacrider was out to harrass the woman biker, he was just admiring her, but I'm saying that he should be aware that he might make a woman rider uncomfortable if he tails her. It doesn't sound like the particular woman he was tailing had a problem with it, but someone else (like me) wouldn't have appreciated it.
WHOAH! I shouldn't have used the word "tailing" - that implies I was intentionally following her just to check her out. That was NOT the case. I just ended up behind her and realized she was nice to look at UNLESS I did some extra work and picked up the pace just to pass her.

My question should have been more like "should I have gone out of my way NOT to follow her so I don't uh, creep her out?".
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Old 09-08-05, 11:10 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by chephy
Well, you are easily creeped out. Guys like to look, it's just a fact of life. They are not evil, they are hard-wired this way. Most male riders would admire the "panniers" of a girl they are following for a while and not even think about any etique-shmetique.

To answer the question, I am a female and I am not bothered if there are cyclists of whatever sex following me. There is no harm in looking.
Where is the applause emoticon when you need it? Ah, found one.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gmacrider
WHOAH! I shouldn't have used the word "tailing" - that implies I was intentionally following her just to check her out. That was NOT the case. I just ended up behind her and realized she was nice to look at UNLESS I did some extra work and picked up the pace just to pass her.

My question should have been more like "should I have gone out of my way NOT to follow her so I don't uh, creep her out?".
Right. Re-reading your original post, you did say that you "made sure not to follow too close". In my opinion you were considerate and courteous to hang back a bit.

Now, riding on someone's ass, just to ogle that ass, is rude and can appear threatening.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by gmacrider
WHOAH! I shouldn't have used the word "tailing" - that implies I was intentionally following her just to check her out. That was NOT the case. I just ended up behind her and realized she was nice to look at UNLESS I did some extra work and picked up the pace just to pass her.

My question should have been more like "should I have gone out of my way NOT to follow her so I don't uh, creep her out?".

Guys look at gals - it's just the way it is Of course, there's the nice, normal way and then there's the leering, creepy way. Sounds to me like you're just a normal guy!

If it were me, I would have appreciated a speed-up on your part so you could say hello. As a new commuter, I'm always kinda psyched to see another cyclist on my route. But I wouldn't expect you to 'out-do' my pace if that wasn't your comfortable speed. That'd be silly! Kinda like a guy who HAD to pass me to show his manly strength, 'cause I'm a girl and all that BS.

Next time you see her, say Hi!
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Old 09-08-05, 11:21 AM   #19
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I received a dressing down from an attractive young lady who thought I was drafting her on my commute home about 2 weeks ago. She was done up in the spandex outfit with a 3 million dollar road bike. But she was doing about 15 km/h. I was behind her (and perhaps a bit too close, I'll admit) because she was going so darn slow.

When I pulled out to pass her, she yelled at me and accused me of being a peeping tom. Then she demanded (yes, demanded) that I let her draft behind me. I told her the only reason I was riding behind her was because the traffic was too thick to pass, and that she was riding too slow.

Then I received a flurry of verbal abuse. I blew by her on my hybrid commuter (all 260 lbs of me), waved bye-bye and continued on my way.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:23 AM   #20
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Seems to me you're feeling guilt because what you did MIGHT be considered wrong depending on circumstance and motive. If circumstances find you on the same trail and going the same direction and pace, then that's all there is to it. The fact that you're also admiring her behind just means you enjoy beautiful things. There's no motive to riding the way you are.

If circumstances found you changing your pace to match hers just so you could stare at her ass, then the motive for your actions was just to ogle her.

As for whether it's right or wrong to stare, who cares? Outside, in public, everyone has the right to stare at anyone else. Who's to say someone wasn't behind you staring at your butt?
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Old 09-08-05, 11:24 AM   #21
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I had a similar case. I happened up behind someone who was going about the same pace as me, and that's rare. Not because I'm some speed demon but because most people do *not* cycle at the exact same speed.

I found it funny that after a minute I thought "good, I can turn off and not follow her", and she makes the same turn! Thankfully my stop was up after a minute. But I did enjoy the view while I was there. Hot-damn those were fantastic legs (I'm a legs man )

If they feel safe, then they have all the power to let you know if they're not comfortable with it. A lot of people and conditions don't make them feel safe. You know you're a nice guy but she doesn't. That's what one should be sensitive to. And besides, if you really are there to leer then it's just wrong.

If ever in a situation like that, be honest with yourself that you're not fudging your pace on purpose, and even if you're stuck behind a nice caboose don't ogle or stay too long. Stop if you have to, for me personally I'm sensitive to how this can make people feel uncomfortable. But enjoy the view anyway. Be human.

(those were fantastic legs, I'd have to be a eunuch not to appreciate the infinite beauty that is woman. )
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Old 09-08-05, 11:39 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by commutercat
But there's a difference between simply "walking/riding/driving" on the same street in general, and "tailing". If you're following someone the way gmacrider was describing, I just don't think that's right. Of course I don't think gmacrider was out to harrass the woman biker, he was just admiring her, but I'm saying that he should be aware that he might make a woman rider uncomfortable if he tails her. It doesn't sound like the particular woman he was tailing had a problem with it, but someone else (like me) wouldn't have appreciated it.
If Gmacracer was riding a mtb of comfort bike i'd totally agree, same for the person he's tailing. But if your riding a roadie in a kit your part of a sport that includes as a tradition drafting. It is very reasonable to latch onto someone for a draft, in fact it is an important part of the sport. But only for a minute or so, more and introductions are in order.
That said it would be rude to draft for more than a few seconds then blow by without offering to pull. One of the best parts of our sport is camraderie and helping each other into headwinds etc is a great part of that.
No of course, not all riders are that experiences and many are uncomfortable with a draft or pull or just want to ride solo. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with someone saying 'no thanks' or just waving you past when your drafting. It is then rude to continue drafting for whatever reason. Partly because of this it's become standard to ask a stranger if they mind you drafting for a minute. Doing so helps this situation and it also notifies the person your behind them and of your normal intentions.
Anyone offended that someone might draft should look into their perceptions of other people and learn something about the 'sport' of cycling instead of just the riding of a bike. Bound to be some differences here but calling a quick draft 'creepy' is a bit much. Many sports encourage this type of meeting, none are 'creepy' unless the person is 'creepy.'
BUT... (here's the Butt) though it IS normal to appreciate someones butt, it's like staring at the sun. Quick glance then look away. It IS creepy to turn around to see someone you didn't know was there staring at it. (Again the best way to avoid that is to just (panting) ask if you can draft for a minute. If you can't make introductions after a minute then you'll come off as 'creepy.' Same rule applies in bars by the way, you can check a girl out for a few seconds but if you stare at her for half an hour without introducing yourself she dosn't think your shy, just an axe murderer...)
So Gmacracer, pull up behind the girl, catch your breath. Then say hi, thank her for the draft and ask if you can repay her. If she'd rather ride alone try to pull past, you might pass each other all the way home but oh well. If you get introduced and draft each other then there's no more creepy factor, (and those two things alone without a meaningful relationship or physical intimacy is better than a few relationships i had with neither and a girl that didn't ride!)

And as for the man checking out a girls but... i'm a guy and i've checked out girls butts, i've also spent hours on tour staring at the butt of a 50 year old dude in front of me. He had tight glutes and nice calves with a good v-notch... but just as the last statement is purely an appreciation of form NOT a sexual urge, so was the first. I spent an equal ammount of time admiring how clean his chain was and the subtle lines of an old steel frame and i'm as likely to be watching a girls 'cycling form' as her 'form.'
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Old 09-08-05, 11:42 AM   #23
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the person is 'creepy.'
BUT... (here's the Butt) though it IS normal to appreciate someones butt, it's like staring at the sun. Quick glance then look away.
I like that line!
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Old 09-08-05, 11:46 AM   #24
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OMG GIRLS HAVE DIFFRENT PARTSPASODGHASDGFK *combusts*

I spent the last half-hour of my run yesterday shamelessly checking out the male AND female spandex at Hains point. Noone ran me off the road (though, almost, c'mon now it's TWO LANES WIDE), and noone stopped, came back, and slapped me for the staring. Sorry, guys. I get so transfixed. It must be the Bianchi.

I seriously think this post should be locked or something. Do a search about girlies on bikies, and in the past month alone, I think you'll turn up 85.678 threads. It's like the "my LBS sucks" thread. Girls have boobies. Guys don't, sad for them. Let's go ride bikes already.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:54 AM   #25
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I like like biking butts and I cannot lie. Sorry mix a lot.

I rarley get into this situation, where the woman is going so fast that it is difficult to pass. Man or woman it is always do it or do not. Some people get irritated because you are drafting and that makes it harder for them. As a man I can atest to the truthfulness of chephy's statement that, "Guys like to look, it's just a fact of life. They are not evil, they are hard-wired this way." Not to mention that it gets difficult to keep up the pace when you hard-wiring starts to really kick in.

A truelu creepy story of this sort was about the Race across america (RAAM). Danny Chew 2 time winner followed, (I dont think that he called it "tailling"), and bugged the hell out of a woman contestant for hundreds of miles. It was so bad, that he was sited and given time penalties. Danny's time was 2 days better than the nearest woman at the time so you know he was going slowly just to talk to a beautiful cycling babe.
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