gew0419

So let me get theis straight...for me to say "all blacks have rhythm." or "all gay men were abused as children" is OK because it's a generalisation? I DON'T THINK SO!!!
Generalisations are NEVER OK! NEVER!

MMACH 5

Same here. I might have to try it sometime, (that is, if I wasn't afraid that some insecure jock-type would chase me down and beat my a**).


I understand that. Most of the other examples pertained to gay bars. Any man who enters that environment is likely enlightened enough not to be offended by attention from another man. My attempt was to bring it into the same arena as the OP's. A woman in a bar may expect this type of comment, but not while she's alone on the trail.

gew0419

yeah, what he said.

gew0419

OK Emily, now you're talking!
I have to agree with you on one thing...and I do understand the un wanted compliment. If a woman I don't know tells me she likes my aftershave or that I look good in that shirt, it kind of un nerves me. I don't like it, because I don't know how to respond. it's embarassing. Some guys might like the attention, but I'm not one of them. My response most often is to start looking for my wife and quick.
I don't pay complements to people unless I get to know them first.
So, there we go...
Now I just have one more question:
What was the original topic of this thread???
Does anybody remember?

gew0419

Emily,
We're starting to agree on things...what's up with that. (just joking)

Mars

I will kindly ask you to READ THE THREAD before you harangue me further. Nothing that you are saying makes any sense in the context of this conversation. Do you read or just interpret in your dream world what others are saying here? I mentioned my wife because a poster insinuated that I must be skulking around behind her back in my nefarious activities. I merely pointed out that it was otherwise. For at least the sixth time, I admit that calling women hotties as I rode by was inappropriate. I am growing tired of these lectures regarding my character or that of my wife based on a few paragraphs here. I am saying that my wife is a feminist and a fine person. Are you going to call me a liar?

I am disappointed in your rigidity of thinking, your pedantic and insulting tone, your hostility and animosity towards two good people who have done you no harm. I invite you to examine why you needed to carry this conversation into these personal and hurtful attacks that I am now, regretfully, responding to. You were and are wrong to attack my wife's beliefs. You don't know what you are talking about, on several levels. As I said earlier, I don't mind taking my lumps regarding the original question about a SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR. I do mind, very much, the name calling, denigration of my character, and now my wife's that have accompanied this horrid and ill advised thread.

Guest

Well, then you shouldn't have started it and continued to participate if you couldn't take the heat.

Koffee

gew0419

Mars,

I'm sitting here laughing, and I don't mean to sound like you shouldn't feel insulted, because I think you should...I would. But I have to say that anyone who starts their comments with "dood" should not be given much credence.
When kicked by a mule, just consider the source.

Roody

As a gay man, I've been following this discussion with some interest. (And a little sense of superiority. )

I occasionally flirt with straight men, and they usually do enjoy it, and often flirt back. Compared to women, men seem to be less threatened by flirtation. This is probably because most men have no past history giving them reason to believe that the flirter is a menace.

Also, I am coy when I flirt. That is, I don't make overt sexual statements, and I try to show a genuine appreciation of the flirtee as a personn not as an object. When done properly, flirtation is fun and healthy for both parties. Unfortunately, the women here report that it is often NOT done properly. What a shame!

iowacity

I shouldn't have started reading this thread last week. Now every time I pass a woman (either riding on walking) the first thing that pops into my head is "on your left, hottie.." It's not something that I'd ever say in a billion years (I think it IS inappropriate), but it still pops right in there. Does this happen to anyone else now?

justpassinthru

I need to sleep now; Just joined bikeforums.net, and I am only a recreational Koffee drinker. I hope this won't keep me up.

Not-so-seriously, lot's of good dialogue, many good points, a few funny quips and - bottom line - if you don't know 'em, keep it simple and direct: "On your left." On a case-by-case basis, though, if a woman or women heckle you back these guidelines may be set aside for more playful banter (never happened to me).

Mars

whatever

Gusboh

Seconded

Gusboh

Am i the only one that thinks this is funny?

iowacity

Everyone thinks that's funny.

recursive

Wow. That's one way to look at it I suppose.

It seems to me though, that he can take "the heat", but feels that it is not justified.

mirona

Best line!

If the shoe fits, kick a mule with it!

Paiyili

No, I laughed at it, too.

gew0419

I'm glad you all got the joke...it wasn't too obtuse, was it?

2old2befast

Male or female, the squeal of the Hope and the clunk of the downshift to overtake constitutes my bell

slagjumper

I agree that just because you have taken some classes does not make you feminist. But it probably helps at least to understand the Ideals of feminism. I have actually taken a class on feminist theory years ago. Not sure how much stayed with me but it does provide a mirror of sorts to see things differently than I might have with out. "Feminism" has many connotations and schools of thought. All gnnerally revolve around the idea that there is a represive patriarchy. It would be silly to deny the power of patriarchy in western society. It powerfully influences what is beautiful, good, meaningful for the status quo-- male and female alike. Trouble is how do you know what you want is yours and not a manufactured social construct? Speech is free, and can be irritating. Trouble is that there is a power relationship involved when a physically bigger man says "hi hottie" to woman. While the woman might want to jam a stick into the dude's front wheel she cannot without being wrong. So she is stuck and pissed off. Sure she can resort to some snappy come back, but that could easily put her into a dire situation.

Question for men is why bother biking past someone and acknowledge them on the hot-e-scale? If the woman is hot, she does not need you to tell her. In saying this you definatley are increasing partiarchy without bennifiting personally from it. You have distilled the woman down to her physical attributes alone and thereby made her an object. And any smart, secure woman is not gona like it. So when you tell yourself she did not like it because she "is a ****" -- dude your lying to yourself.

Question for women is how do you deal with the ah and your psyche without comprimising your philosophy? Diverging a bit--It is somewhat common knowledge that an attractive woman is prone to the "I'll ignore her and see what happens appoach". In this comeon the man knows that the woman knows that she is hot and since he does not acknowledge that, she becomes interested. Then there are the women who do not live up to the socially defined ideal of beauty and so they might be despirate for the attention. It is significant that physical features limit your possibilities. I've known women who have hagged themselves up, travel only in groups of other women, buy a gun or mace all more or less in reaction to patriarchal hegemony and not what they would do if they lived in a better possible world. To me all of these choices suck. Maybe an autodial helmet mounted phone that can summon police while you ride away.

"It is hard to fight an enemy with outposts in your head."
-Sally Kempton

dave ford

Mars, dood, whilst i wouldn't say "on your left hottie", i find it really amusing and smile everytime i read it, i would just feel a bit daft saying it, and also i don't perticularly like people telling me to **** off!
I'm sorry if this doesn't fit into your feminist lifestyles ladies (am i allowed to say that?), lighten up and enjoy life, 'cos we ain't here long. There is too much thinking going on here by people that really should'nt be doing it.
And Mars, please carry on and enjoy your riding and say hello when you pass anyone, even more so if they put their head down and try to ignore you!! You sound like a guy i would share a beer with, honest, normal and enjoys life - right on Dood.
I'm probably gonna get flamed for this post, but what some doods have done on here to Mars is disgraceful and amounts to bullying, get a life!!
You'll never win an argument with certain types, if you don't hold the door open your rude, if you do your implying they are the weaker sex, thankfully most of the 'hotties on the left' that i know are lovely genuine people that in turn recognise other genuine people.

KristenGilbert

Instead, announce you're going to pass on the left and as you pass, look right at them and flash a big smile. A handful of men have done that to me as they pass and I thought it was very cute. THAT did give me a warm fuzzy. If a guy called me a hottie from behind without seeing my face, I'd think he's an ass because that's what would qualify me as a hottie to him since that's all he's seen.

vrkelley

Thanks everyone The Original Poster has the answer(s) to his question. This thread is closed per OP's request

Cheers!