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  1. #1
    This town needs an enema.
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    Makes me sad and angry...

    I ran into this article this afternoon after my commute home from school. This makes me so pissed off. I honestly think this 18 year old should be put behind bars for a long time. I have ridden and driven past where this "accident" took place at least a 500 times in 20+ years that I lived here and there are major problems.

    Here is the article...

    1. People drive WAY TOO FAST on that road (Lakewood Blvd) and the cops don't even bat an eye.

    2. The road where Mr. Clary was hit is extremely wide. To lose control, travel almost 100 feet across three lanes, hit a person, drag them 60 feet and then travel another 50 feet means you were going REALLY FAST.

    3. ALL of the teenagers around this area have BAD driving habits and act like a car tool to act like an butthole. I could easily say that 80% of the people who ride my butt on the freeway, cut me approaching aoff red light just to slam on their brakes, fly around me because I am only going 75 on freeway are no older than 21.
    ^this may or may not be useful information <--this not so much.

  2. #2
    commuter all star peregrine's Avatar
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    Sad and angry is exactly how I'm feeling too... I just can't see how someone whould skid across three lanes and into the flippin' sidewalk!! There hasn't been another report on it since this first one, right?


    BTW, this accident is also discussed in the General Cycling forum Car skids,kills cyclist in LB

  3. #3
    Senior Member thdave's Avatar
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    It doesn't make sense. She must not have put on the brake or something was in its way. What a trajedy!
    Cleveland, OH
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  4. #4
    Stooge thebankman's Avatar
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    Another teen who needs to lose their license permanently.

  5. #5
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    The reporter's email is printed. You could email her and tell her her article is receiving national attention on these boards and ask about follow-up, informal or in print.

  6. #6
    Senior Member peterm5365's Avatar
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    "Wong said the fatal crash, the third involving a teen driver in Long Beach in the past four weeks, is another reminder for young drivers to use caution when behind the wheel."

    Yes, it's not criminal negligence it's just a "reminder to use caution."

  7. #7
    This town needs an enema.
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    Reminder to use caution...that is just ridiculous.
    ^this may or may not be useful information <--this not so much.

  8. #8
    Fattest Thin Man Az B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cradduck
    Reminder to use caution...that is just ridiculous.
    So as the problem becomes an epidemic, we remind people to use caution.

    Yeah, that'll work. Especially with teens. They listen to everything adults say.

    Az

  9. #9
    This town needs an enema.
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    ^this may or may not be useful information <--this not so much.

  10. #10
    Commuter JohnBrooking's Avatar
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    Absolutely tragic.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadfiNch on Commuting forum
    What's the point of a bike if you can only ride it on weekends, and you can't even carry anything with you?!
    Portland Maine Bicycle Commuting Meetup

  11. #11
    Senior Member crotch_rocket's Avatar
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    I say start a campaign to increase the legal driving age to 21, nationwide. Legal to drink and legal to drive.

    I'm serious. Statistically speaking, most accidents happen with drivers under 20.

    I already have to contend with undisciplined jerks under 18 in the area here, driving their rich mom or dad's expensive SUV which they didn't earn on either merit or brains.

    Anyone with me on this one?

  12. #12
    Stooge thebankman's Avatar
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    +1 to a higher driving age...but you know kids would be driving their parent's cars anyway considering the parents will have the mindset that they themselves drove a car at 16, so why should their kid "suffer" like that? Hmm then again driving without insurance and crashing the family car isn't something most families would afford.

    This whole story is really sad. Moral here is, don't ride on the sidewalk, it aint safe

  13. #13
    Recumbent Evangelist
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    At least make the minimum age to drive 19. I really think that would help. The question is, would the insurance companies be for, or against this? I bet they'd have a lot of clout in this matter.
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  14. #14
    Barbieri Telefonico huhenio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crotch_rocket
    I say start a campaign to increase the legal driving age to 21, nationwide. Legal to drink and legal to drive.

    I'm serious. Statistically speaking, most accidents happen with drivers under 20.

    I already have to contend with undisciplined jerks under 18 in the area here, driving their rich mom or dad's expensive SUV which they didn't earn on either merit or brains.

    Anyone with me on this one?
    I would not be agreeing with you If I would have not been a public danger till the age of 25.
    Giving Haircuts Over The Phone

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by crotch_rocket
    I say start a campaign to increase the legal driving age to 21, nationwide. Legal to drink and legal to drive. Anyone with me on this one?
    i sort of agree, but i don't think age is the only key. it's not young drivers that worry me, it's new drivers of any age. in theory, it used to be that you could write the theory test and earn a learner's license, and then wait 3 months and go take a road test and pass it without doing any actual driving at all.

    pretty close to how i did it. i basically learned how to drive by scheduling road tests and failing them until i passed one. there might have been maybe a total of ten other hours of practice, but i wouldn't swear to it. and then suddenly i was released into the traffic community and i drove to work on a highway and drove home on a different highway, and it was rush hour all the way.

    my province has a new graduated-licensing program now. i think you can still start the process of becoming a driver at 16, but it takes a couple of years before you have the full range of privileges. i should look into it, since my kid will be 16 this summer.
    ain't no man can help being born average. but ain't no man got to be common - satchell paige

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokolosh
    i sort of agree, but i don't think age is the only key. it's not young drivers that worry me, it's new drivers of any age. in theory, it used to be that you could write the theory test and earn a learner's license, and then wait 3 months and go take a road test and pass it without doing any actual driving at all.
    It's a combination. I do know a number older new drivers - typically immigrant women who came from countries where fewer people drove because they didn't have cars (most places other than the US) so the women never learned but now need to drive because they have kids to transport - and pretty much all of them have caused idiotic accidents.

    But unlike the young new drivers, they know their skills are limited and the consequences of a car and so therefore don't speed and generally screw around with the car, the stuff that leads to running off the road and killing people.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokolosh
    i sort of agree, but i don't think age is the only key. it's not young drivers that worry me, it's new drivers of any age. in theory, it used to be that you could write the theory test and earn a learner's license, and then wait 3 months and go take a road test and pass it without doing any actual driving at all.

    pretty close to how i did it. i basically learned how to drive by scheduling road tests and failing them until i passed one. there might have been maybe a total of ten other hours of practice, but i wouldn't swear to it. and then suddenly i was released into the traffic community and i drove to work on a highway and drove home on a different highway, and it was rush hour all the way.

    my province has a new graduated-licensing program now. i think you can still start the process of becoming a driver at 16, but it takes a couple of years before you have the full range of privileges. i should look into it, since my kid will be 16 this summer.

    I agree. Age isn't the problem. The lack of qualified, formal driver training is the problem. Having lived in Germany for a total of 5 years courtesy of the US Army, I can tell you that driving there is a privelege that is earned at a high monetary and education cost. It pays off, in my opinion. Maybe there are some members here from Germany who can confirm or deny my opinion.

    I commuted in Germany and in Italy and can safely say that I had zero close calls with drivers. First, the infrastructure exists to make commuting a pleasure. My first assignment in Germany had me living 12 miles from the kaserne. There was a bike path on both sides of the highway from the town I lived in to the town I worked. Second, the drivers there are much more in tune with what is going on around them. At least they were then, can't speak for now. The second time I was stationed in Germany I lived 17 miles from the kaserne and commuted less frequently, but the route was entirely on secondary highways without a bike path. Again, no problem with cars. In Italy the situation was the same. 18 miles of secondary highways and back roads. There everyone's Grandmother rides a scooter or a bicycle, so they watch for them.

    Here I have a close encounter with traffic at least once a week. You have to stay on guard every second you are on the road.

  18. #18
    Urban Biker jimmuter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebankman
    +1 to a higher driving age...but you know kids would be driving their parent's cars anyway considering the parents will have the mindset that they themselves drove a car at 16, so why should their kid "suffer" like that? Hmm then again driving without insurance and crashing the family car isn't something most families would afford.

    This whole story is really sad. Moral here is, don't ride on the sidewalk, it aint safe
    As someone who caused a serious accident when I was 17, I tend to agree. I think the real push back would come from the parents who are tired of carting their teens to soccer, football, and other school activities. I hear it's a big relief to a lot of parents when the kids can take themselves.

  19. #19
    Senior Member joshdcu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmuter
    I think the real push back would come from the parents who are tired of carting their teens to soccer, football, and other school activities. I hear it's a big relief to a lot of parents when the kids can take themselves.
    And there's the rub: Unlike some other countries, the transportaion network in most of this country is very automobile-dependent. In many places here, there aren't really any other viable alternatives (such as mass transit) for getting around, nor is our (often sprawling and disconnected) development patterned in ways that support anything but car travel. If there were better alternatives to making those trips by car, more people might use these options. As it is, though, kids are dependent on their parents for getting around until they get their driver's licenses; and they're driving around with little actual experience or practice once they get them.

    I realize the irony of posting this on a bike commuting forum (to be read by a group of people who are biking as an alternative to car travel); but if we built more walkable, bikeable, inter-connected communities where there are easy and viable alternatives (walking, biking, reliable transit) to car travel, we might have fewer kids driving around and causing accidents. Another positive offshoot of this is that kids might develop better exercise habits and be in better shape (lowering health care costs, among other things), too.

    Of course, if it weren't so easy to get driver's licenses, we'd probably have less of a problem with dangerous driving, as well. I really like the idea of a graduated licensing system, with expanded priveledges attached to driving experience and other milestones, so that we get better-trained drivers. A higher driving age in places where that would work (e.g. cities with viable transportation alternatives) might not be a bad thing, either.
    Last edited by joshdcu; 02-09-06 at 12:25 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Jarery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebankman
    Moral here is, don't ride on the sidewalk, it aint safe
    I dont think it matters if he was on the sidewalk, or any of the 3 lanes she crossed over. She lost control in the extreme to go that far.

    The sad part, is she'll get some community time, maybe a driving restriction for a couple years.

    Edit : dang premature post button pressing !

    Raising age I dont believe will do diddley squat to the safety of the general public. In my opinion, what needs to be done is :

    1) real punishments handed out to those who break the rules

    2) actually handing out the punishemnts ( When you hear someone who is up on charges, they ALWAYS announce the maximum they can get. when was the last time anyone got the maximum? usually its the min)

    3) teach our kids that they are responsible for their own actions instead of always looking elsewhere to place blame.

    4) finally realize that driving an automobile is a privilage and not a right, and that repeat offenders have chosen to lose their right to drive. (how many times do you hear of a person who has multiple drunk driving, etc)

    The only hard part is the transition phase. Eventually people do learn they are responsible, and deterents do work. Initially they dont because no one has faith in the justice system currently.
    Last edited by Jarery; 02-09-06 at 01:20 PM.
    Jarery

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  21. #21
    Bike Junkie aadhils's Avatar
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    21 Is still too low. I suggest the age limit raised to atleast 40 when they can really think properly...

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