marqueemoon

Fad or not you totally lack personal experience on the subject which makes you completely unqualified to discuss the relative merits of fixed versus other types of drivetrains. That's the bottom line.

Your opinions about the stereotype you think I fit are meaningless to this discussion and only further demonstrate your small-mindedness.

eibeinaka

No, but this thread is about using a winter fixie. I'm interested in the idea because Sheldon Brown seems to think they make good winter bikes. Is he a faddist? I commute in winter in conditions where a fixed wheel might offer some advantages. I'm interested in listening to people who do have some experience and expertise to relate on the topic, not to some ill-informed, small-minded prescriptivist rant from an idiot displaying the chip on his shoulder in yet another thread.

Start your own thread; "why fixies don't make good winter bikes", and share your ideas there. Don't keep elbowing your way into discussions which piss off people who are better-informed and more experienced than
you with the thread topic. That's not what the forum is for.

Cyclist0383

I don't know if you've ridden a lot on ice, but your wheel has a nasty habit of sliding out from under you when you use your front brake. In really icy conditions (which is December through March here) I almost always use only my rear brake. During non-icy conditions I use my front brake, including the one on my fixie.

CBBaron

Thats the reason my winter fixie has both front and rear brakes. The post you quoted suggested this also. I do use the front brake in most conditions but when it gets really slick I use the rear brake only. However for my conditions I usually only have a couple blocks of slick roads most days with the occasional snow storm dumping enough snow to cause the aterial roads to become slick. Even with a light snow on the roads studded tires still provided enough traction to use full brakes.

As for coaster brakes they are a good winter solution for those who want the low maintence and simplicity but still want to coast. However they do come at a weight penalty and have some drag compared to a fixie. I've ridden coaster brake bikes and I wouldn't commute on either coaster brakes or a fixie without a better brake installed. And I much perfer a fixie.

Craig

ducati

That is only one way to "brake" a fixie without using brakes. This is more of a showboating/fun technique than an actual braking technique. Rear braking on a fixie is most often done by "resisting" "slowing the pedals" or whatever you want to call it; you apply pressure to the pedals opposite as you would for forward motion, and this slows the bike.

For me, the subtle and instant variations in pedal pressure (for forward motion OR braking) is a big part of the fixie allure. I am much faster to react with my legs/feet already in motion than a hand on the bars grabbing a brake. And control is very fine. This is why some people like fixies for braking in slipprey conditions.

Cyclist0383

What do you do when a truck pulls out in front of you?

squeakywheel

Just a small caution regarding the Hardrock. My 1980's Hardrock has horizontal drop-outs, but they are very short. My workable chainring / cog combinations are limited. I'm running 35x16 now. If I want to change that, I have to do it in increments of 4 teeth. Not a huge problem, but if yours is similar I thought you might want to know beforehand.

ducati

Use the front brake, silly. Just like you would. Although a fixed gear rider will also resist with their legs in this circumstance, typically automatically.

I do not advocate riding a fixed gear sans front brake.

Regardless... locking the back wheel is never the best option, fixed gear or not.

Cyclist0383

But in slippery conditions using the front brake can make the front wheel slide out from under you.

BTW, I ride a fixed gear with a front brake, just not in the winter.

ducati

Yes, it can. In such circumstances, what would YOU do, on any bike? The bike underneath you, fixed or geared, doesn't change the response. If you have enough traction to front brake, use it. If you don't, just use the rear (or resist). If that's the only option and you don't have enough time to stop, sorry about your luck. Geared, disc'd out, whatever, fixed or free isn't going to help you out in that hypothetical situation.

Cyclist0383

Then we'll agree to disagree. I find I can stop okay with weight over my rear wheel while using my rear disc brake.

ducati

You suggested, from your "what if a truck pulled out in front of you" hypothetical question, that a fixie rider was in trouble because of my suggested technique of resisting. I suggested a front brake in that circumstance. You then added the condition that it was "slippery." So we're back to a rear brake.

What are we disagreeing about? I don't think anything. If you can't use your front brake due to adverse, slippery conditions, you use the rear. Simple. On a fixie, you can resist or use the rear brake if so equipped. Disc, canti, sidepull, your legs, whatever, same effect. Braking at the rear wheel.

eibeinaka

Hmm...I'm hoping to run 32X18...

squeakywheel

I'm not saying you have a problem. I haven't seen your bike. Just something for you to think about. If you have the short dropouts like me, there is a web site that will allow you to get it right the first time instead of buying multiple chainrings and cogs like I did. The web site is a calculator for workable gears on bikes with vertical dropouts. I've never used it. I found it after solving my problem by trial and error.

https://eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php

Adding or removing one tooth on either the chainring or the sprocket will move the rear axle 1/8 inch. Adding or removing one chain link will move the rear axle 1/2 inch. If you want to move the rear axle 1/4 inch, you can use a "half link" in the chain.

Edit: Another consideration is fenders. Even on my SS road bike with large horizontal dropouts, I play games with the gear choice to get the wheel centered in the fender. For me, it works best to get the wheel as far forward as possible while maintaining enough clearance from the front of the fender.

marqueemoon

Exactly. Hell, put a v brake and a disc brake in front and a brake on the rear if you want. Weld a fixed cog onto a singlespeed disc hub and run two disc brakes. Go nuts.

You can still lock up a wheel and slide out on a slick road but that's not the drivetrain's fault per se. No bike is completely safe. In my opinion for a fixed gear bike to be a viable winter or foul weather bike it needs to be an appropriate winter/foul weather bike first. This excludes most off-the-shelf fixed gear bikes being sold these days, but that is a matter of marketing and consumer choice.

cerewa

yeah, on snow and ice the foot on ground "flinstones" brakes work pretty well and you can save your balance by putting your feet down too.

I also definitely like the multispeed bike's option of gearing down to go slow in slush and snow.

But derailleurs certainly are a pain when they get all iced up. I'd probably enjoy an 8-speed internally geared bike a lot, but I don't think I'll buy one- i'll just deal with the inconvenience of slushed-up derailleurs. Anyway, it's not as bad if you learn the technique of pushing a derailleur with your foot while riding in order to get it to move.

-=(8)=-

This is my experience too.
There is just no comparison when it comes to slo-speed control.
People either agree or disagree. I wonder how many of the disagree'ers
have even ridden a fixie in dry conditions ?

I-Like-To-Bike

This thread is an example of why you "read so often that fixies are good for winter commuting". The relatively tiny fixie fan club loves to sing in praise of their choice for all purposes, and their own smarts for making such a wise decision, and can't tolerate any discussion that doesn't fit into their scheme of the cycling gospels.

spider-man

As a general rule, if it sparks spontaneous resentment from ILTB, it's fun.

Blue Order

Is it possible to build a fixed gear with drum brakes?

moxfyre

Well... I don't think anyone makes a track hub that can take a drum brake or disc brake, so a rear drum/disc brake is out. But there's no reason you couldn't use a front hub with drum/disc brakes with a fixie. That would be pretty cool, actually, now that I think about it!

I think a fixie with front disc/drum brake would be a wicked winter commuter, though I'm sure I Like To Bike will disagree

jason@lmi

I Like To Bike: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

OK, you have beef with the "fixie fad".....we get that. Now, cut the emotional yet lacking technical advice.

FWIW it's worth: I ride/own all types of bikes. Love them all.

Now, as a bike messenger I realize that I "only" commute to work about 4 miles each way. The rest of the day is called work. Of those 11 years as a messenger I have ridden a fixed gear for six of them. I currently work in Salt Lake City, Utah (where it has been known to snow) and will ride nothing other than fixed gear in the winter. Here is a brief rundown as to why I have come to this conclusion, starting with the most important:

Reliable modulation. There is no way, even on my cross bike with knobby tires, that I get the kind of modulation in snow/ice I get with my fixed wheel. Think of using a stick shift vehicle and downshifting around a corner versus just putting the car in neutral around a corner. It is not a cult/karma thing but something you can feel.

Low maintenence. I put air in my tires and lube my chain. Sometimes I buy new tires, sometimes I buy a new chain (often enough as to not wear down my drivetrain). I repack the moving parts (hubs, BB, headset) as often as I would any of my other bikes. The winter gunk is a handful here on geared bikes and I prefer spending my time in other ways than keeping up with that. Been there, done that.

Durability. Nuff said.

Theft issues. Nuff said.

Now, go out and give it a try if YOU LIKE TO BIKE. You just might find something useful. Drinking the Kool Aid is optional.

Mos6502

I guess it will simply be a matter of preference, I really don't think the advantage of having feedback from the rear wheel outweighs the disadvantage of not being able to coast in slick conditions - but yes it would be up to the individual to gather what they saw as being more important - feedback - or coasting.

That's really all it comes down to. You can have a straight chainline and no derailers to get clogged with snow on a coasting single speed or a three speed (or any internally geared bike), that's not something that is exclusive to fixed gear bikes - you can brake without using rim brakes if you have a coaster brake, drum brake, band brake, or disk brake, again something not exclusive to fixed gear.

So what is exclusive is - you can't coast, and you can "feel" the grip of the rear wheel better.
If you value the inability to coast and receiving feedback from the rear wheel above all else, then I suppose a fixed bike makes sense for winter riding.
If you prefer to coast in slick situations, and you don't see rear wheel feedback as necessary - then something not fixed is just as good if not better.

Personally I value coasting over receiving wheel feedback - truth is both are useful in slick conditions, it just depends on what your riding style is to determie which is more useful to you. I've had a couple of fixed bikes, and never thought they'd be any better than anything else in the snow (my three speed being the prefered "all weather" bike since it has fenders and the gears are safe from the elements inside the hub).

moxfyre

Right. Which one is better depends not only on personal preference but terrain and riding style. I'd have to say that as much as I love my fixie, it sucks going downhill on it. It'd be perfect if I lived in the city where it's flat.

By the way, most people who use fixies for riding in snow use a LOW gear, e.g. one that might allow 12 mph at a comfortable cadence. This allows you to resist the rear wheel more easily (since the rotating wheel has less mechanical advantage with respect to the rotating cranks).

Also, I love your username... brings back memories of my C64 and soldering together crazy hacks to attach to the expansion port

Cyclist0383

As we were talking about winter commuting I just assumed slippery conditions. My bad.