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  1. #1
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    A passing...of a bike

    It's very sad to say this, a loved one passed away today. She was about two years old. With 10613 miles on her. The frame broke, took out two sides of the frame. I have no clue how it happen. Here are some photos. I think my bike has a lifetime warrantee on the frame. I have to call my LBS in the morning when they open. Only thing that's original on the bike is the frame. I guess being car-free is hard on a bike.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  2. #2
    actin' the foo ragboy's Avatar
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    moment of silence
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    rest in peace.

  3. #3
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Sorry for your loss. She served you well.
    HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



    We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeklpc1985
    I think my bike has a lifetime warrantee on the frame.
    Is there something about the break that makes you think it is related to a manufacturing defect and not simply about ordinary wear and tear?

  5. #5
    VOTE FOR KEN WIND Ken Wind's Avatar
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    I think that many manufacturers will replace frames even when there is no sign of a defect. As long as there isn't neglect or abuse involved it's a good policy.

  6. #6
    Recumbent Evangelist
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    She will be remembered as a selfless organ donor, I'm sure.
    www.rebel-cycles.com

    The official Canadian dealer of TW-Bents recumbent bicycles!

  7. #7
    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Only 10,613 miles? Sheesh!

    RIP
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

  8. #8
    Senior Member thdave's Avatar
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    Yikes! Nasty crack in the frame.

    I got to think that's a manufacturing problem. The frame should last much longer than that.
    Cleveland, OH
    Breezer fan

  9. #9
    spinspinspinspin fatbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vendorz
    Is there something about the break that makes you think it is related to a manufacturing defect and not simply about ordinary wear and tear?
    looks like it might have started at the bottom bracket weld there, which would look like a manufacturing problem. In any case, it's good you caught it. Did you see the crack, or did it fail in use?

    Good luck with the new frame- hope it gets to you soon.
    a radar blip, an empty clip, post-nasal drip, and kung fu grip

  10. #10
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    I just had pick up a new rack, after installing it I was the crack. I though it was a paint problem, I was so wrong. It did start at the bottom bracket weld, into the next tube and all away around. Almost connected to the other side. I think they just don't make bikes like they use to.

    Thanks for all your support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  11. #11
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Let us know if you can get a replacement frame under warranty. Good luck!
    HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



    We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

  12. #12
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    I will, I am going to hear today or Thursday. It will be coved otherwise I will rase hell. The bike before this frame also broke, after the frame broke two times, they gave my this bike (Martin). I don't know why they keep braking. I saw just how bad it was after I striped the bike. I am so bad I saw it before riding her again. In three years I have broke 3 frames.
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  13. #13
    Senior Member Paul L.'s Avatar
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    She was too young to die. When will we learn? When will we fix the potholes that kill those we love before their time?
    Where have all the downtubes gone? Long time passing, where have all the downtubes gone........
    Sunrise saturday,
    I was biking the backroads,
    lost in the moment.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Wind
    I think that many manufacturers will replace frames even when there is no sign of a defect. As long as there isn't neglect or abuse involved it's a good policy.
    Yeah, guess anything originating around a joint effectively spells defect. Again certainly, I got no object to a generous warranty policy. So many warranties are worthless these days (aka ask me why I won't be buying any more HP/Compaq products).

    Good luck with the warranty...

  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyossarian
    Let us know if you can get a replacement frame under warranty. Good luck!

    That stinks. The problem with a frame warranty is that you don't get a "loaner" bike in the meantime! I've heard stories of people waiting 6+ months to get their replacement frames. On top of that, the new frame often has different specs than the old one (which they have often stopped making by that time), so they have to buy new parts! Hardly a warranty.

    I hope you have a backup bike to keep you riding. Goodl luck!

  16. #16
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    Wow, still no word. It's been sent out. He told me it might be four or five more days.
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  17. #17
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    10,613! Thats more miles than I ever put on my car in two years!
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
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  18. #18
    domestique squeakywheel's Avatar
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    Just a flesh wound.

    Seriously, either you landed hard jumping that thing or it's a manufacturing defect.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeakywheel
    Just a flesh wound.

    Seriously, either you landed hard jumping that thing or it's a manufacturing defect.


    Defect for sure. Apparently, if it's going to fail, it will happen in the amount of miles that the poster has put on the bike or much fewer. Once you get above that you should be golden (for steel certainly and for a long time with AL). Look at that dude who rode his old 3-speed around the world. 44 years and 335,000 miles on that bike...

    About metal fatigue

    When you repeatedly apply force to a piece of metal, in general, it will eventually fail. The higher the force, the fewer cycles to failure, and the lower the force, the more cycles until failure. However, when the force falls below a certain threshold, called the endurance limit, you can repeat the application of force forever, with no failure.

    The actual measure for the endurance limit is in stress, not force. Stress is force per square inch. This means that if something is stressed above its endurance limit, you can always make it last longer just by making your metal thicker. You may even make it strong enough that you drive the stress below the endurance limit, and then it will never fail (under normal usage).

    For aluminum though, the endurance limit is always asumed to be zero (if it is non-zero, it is too small to be useful). You can never get below the endurance limit, so eventually, every aluminum bike frame will fail. The reason consumers accept this is that (hopefully) aluminum frames are made with the metal thick enough that the fatigue failure doesn't occur until peak cycles get up into the hundreds of millions, or higher.

    For steel, however, the endurance limit is comfortably distant from zero. Practical steel supports can be designed that should never fail during normal operation. The endurance limit for steel typically comes into play on the order of one million cycles; in other words if something has survived a million cycles of stress, it should never fail (due to that level of stress). For a bicycle at a rather slow cadence of 60 RPMs, this is less than 280 hours of riding.

    There are certainly many riders capable of accumulating this many hours of out-of-the-saddle riding time in a single year, and a few who could get in a million cycles (out of saddle) in just a couple of months. And most of these riders have frames which have lasted them much longer than this. This is simply not the time scale in which frames should be failing. From this I conclude that steel-framed bikes are generally designed with all normal usage falling below the endurance limit.

    One of the things this means is that if you do have a steel frame failure, it is due to one of three things: You exceeded normal usage (e.g. crashed), or the frame had a manufacturing defect, or the frame was poorly designed. Note that crashing may not cause immediate failure, but it can lead to a failure later on. For example, a crack in a frame will redistribute stress to the areas around the crack. These areas will see significantly more stress than they saw before there was a crack, and hence may be prone to an endurance limit failure.
    Quoted from: http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opi...rame-test.html

  20. #20
    Senior Member ken cummings's Avatar
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    That was a very strange crack in your thumbnail picture. Extending straight across the weld, far past the weld, and with a sharp angled bend in it. Wierd. I suspect brittle metal failure. Like the excessive sulfer in the hull metal of the Titanic. Since it has hapened twice I suspect someone knowingly used tubing that was not meant to be welded. If you had received serious trauma I would have suggested taking it to a Forensic Metallurgist.
    This space open

  21. #21
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    Well still no word on the bike, but the bike store did give me a bike to use.
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  22. #22
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Looks to me like a good excuse for getting a TIG conversion kit for the welder.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeklpc1985
    Well still no word on the bike, but the bike store did give me a bike to use.

    Now that is surprisingly good news. The way these stories usually go is that the bike owner ends up buying a new bike b/c the company takes so darn long to send a new frame. The fact that your LBS gave you a loaner bike gives them big points in my book. You may have that loaner for a while it this keeps up though...

  24. #24
    Senior Member geeklpc1985's Avatar
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    Well they have the same frame YAY!!! No need to buy new parts. It was shipped today...so it's going to be awhile to get here. The LBS is good to me, I have dropped over $10,000 on bike, gear, and so much more. So thats the main reason they give me a bike to use. Also they know I am car-free, and my bike is my life.
    Super Geek
    2004 Martin Novato: 10613 miles, Ride in Peace (DOD: 12/05/06)
    Max Speed: 40 mph

  25. #25
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeklpc1985
    Well they have the same frame YAY!!! No need to buy new parts. It was shipped today...so it's going to be awhile to get here. The LBS is good to me, I have dropped over $10,000 on bike, gear, and so much more. So thats the main reason they give me a bike to use. Also they know I am car-free, and my bike is my life.

    I'm glad they've been good to you. And I'm hoping $10,000 is an exaggeration! Unless you've got the carbon-fiber/unobtanium version of the Novato.

    I'm also not 100% sure if getting the exact frame is a good or bad thing. It's extremely good that you don't need to change any parts. But you did break 2 of those frames already, right? I hope this one lasts longer!

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