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  1. #1
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    NYC Congestion Tax? YES!


  2. #2
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    While I support any action that reduces traffic and the associated pollution in any inner city, I would say that the target demographic for any charge is flawed. A monetary sanction only works on people who would consider the expense too much to bear, but usually, inner cities are dominated by hulking SUVs and top end cars whose occupants won't even blink at paying the charge everyday. In London, there may be less general traffic, but it just gives the SUVs more room to roam. I might start hunting them soon.

  3. #3
    Senior Member NeezyDeezy's Avatar
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    I wrote a letter supporting this proposal.

  4. #4
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    I was listening to NY1 this morning and one of the drivers interviewed said she'd pay the toll because she'd rather drive when asked if public transportation wasn't available where she was.

    Quote Originally Posted by NY1
    NY1 spoke to drivers this morning as they came off the Brooklyn Bridge about what they thought about the plan.

    "It's ridiculous,” said one driver. “We are already paying enough tolls as it is. Why would I want to pay more?"

    "They should do it,” countered another driver. “It will cut down on the traffic."

    “I don't think so,” said a third. “It's going to be still big traffic."

    "It might actually be a good idea. Just for the clutter, you know what I mean? People would avoid it," said one bicyclist.
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  5. #5
    Recumbent Evangelist
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    As long as the tolls collected go to a worthwhile cause, and not into some politician's pocket, I think it's a fine idea.
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  6. #6
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    It has been around in London for more than a year, maybe two or more.
    It's not new, and it works.

    Also in London there is a tax credit for companies that provide safe bike parking and things like showers for bike commuters.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    I'm sure NYC (Bloomberg) will leave out the 2nd part about the tax credit, safe bike parking and showers.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    This is a great idea.

    According to a recent analysis of NYC traffic, 56% of all auto trips in NYC are 3 miles or less. Those trips could easily be replaced by public transit, bicycles or even walking in many cases! And apparently "for the region as a whole, 80% of auto commuters have a transit option that would take no more than 15 minutes longer than their auto trip." So lots of these people driving into NYC don't need to be driving.

    http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/04/1...-city-in-flux/

  9. #9
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings on this topic. On the surface it sounds like a great idea. I have to wonder about the practicality of it as well as the effectiveness with respect to reducing traffic. I believe that jacking the cost of on-street parking to match or nearly-match lots in Midtown is just as important if not more important for reducing traffic.

    I was in London two years ago. There are still a lot of cars driving around, congestion pricing or not. However, I'd not been there before CP so I have no basis for comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
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  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    On the radio this morning (1010 WINS) they asked a driver what he thought about the proposed $8 congestion charge. He said it was too expensive and that he would switch to the train...

    That's exactly the idea.

    Oboeguy,
    I can't find the stats at the moment, but I read somewhere that auto traffic in London's central business district decreased by about 30% after congestion pricing, but the amount of human traffic stayed relatively even. Sounds good to me.

    I do agree that it's more important to increase the cost of on street parking, which is practically free right now.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Fuzzydave's Avatar
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    Is this $8 on top of the $6 is already costs to take the Lincoln tunnel (is it still $6?)
    I'm all for the people who use the roadways being the ones to pay for it, but I don't think it will affect pollution and traffic that much, just move more of it uptown to the GW and FDR and West Side Hwy.
    That being said (written), it's good to see the pols thinking outside the box for once.

  12. #12
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonradNYC
    On the radio this morning (1010 WINS) they asked a driver what he thought about the proposed $8 congestion charge. He said it was too expensive and that he would switch to the train...

    That's exactly the idea.
    I guess for those short trips $8 is quite a raise in the effective cost of the trip.

    Oboeguy,
    I can't find the stats at the moment, but I read somewhere that auto traffic in London's central business district decreased by about 30% after congestion pricing, but the amount of human traffic stayed relatively even. Sounds good to me.
    NICE. A 30% reduction would be fantastic.

    I do agree that it's more important to increase the cost of on street parking, which is practically free right now.
    Ridiculous, isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  13. #13
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordecai84
    I would say that the target demographic for any charge is flawed. A monetary sanction only works on people who would consider the expense too much to bear, but usually, inner cities are dominated by hulking SUVs and top end cars whose occupants won't even blink at paying the charge everyday. In London, there may be less general traffic, but it just gives the SUVs more room to roam. I might start hunting them soon.
    I would be in favor of it in theory. Yes, the poor are always "victims"... oh well.

    I think my bigger concern is that the public as a whole paid tax money to build and maintain these roads. Now, they're being asked to pay more to use them? For example, you don't typically see a road built, then ten years later have it made into a toll road. It's made toll to pay for itself. This is in-effect making these roads toll-based after the fact. Something about that rubs me the wrong way.

    That said, if I lived or worked here I would still be in favor of it.

  14. #14
    Recumbent Evangelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS
    I would be in favor of it in theory. Yes, the poor are always "victims"... oh well.

    I think my bigger concern is that the public as a whole paid tax money to build and maintain these roads. Now, they're being asked to pay more to use them? For example, you don't typically see a road built, then ten years later have it made into a toll road. It's made toll to pay for itself. This is in-effect making these roads toll-based after the fact. Something about that rubs me the wrong way.

    That said, if I lived or worked here I would still be in favor of it.
    They're being asked to pay for the priviledge to drive, not to use the roads. When it comes down to it, the only way to get some people out of their cars is to hit them where it hurts - in their wallet.
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  15. #15
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    When I lived in Boston I felt the city could acomplish alot by raising the cost or better yet eliminating street parking, raising the cost of public parking structures and lots, and imposing heafty taxes on private parking structures and lots. The conjestion taxing is a nide idea, but how do you collect it? Do you place toll boths on the streets in the boundary areas? Seems like its much easier to use the exisiting logistical infrastructure for collecting money from people at the begining and/or end of their trips. Then you wouldn't need a new public authority.. or have I now found the real reason Mr. Blomberg wants to do this...

  16. #16
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    London uses a network of cameras. You pay via phone/web the day you enter the city (up to the following night), or you get a ticket. Users can also buy multi-day passes.

  17. #17
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crack Monkey
    London uses a network of cameras. You pay via phone/web the day you enter the city (up to the following night), or you get a ticket. Users can also buy multi-day passes.
    "Why do I always like, somebody's watching meeeeeeeeee?"

    Disturbing as the "Big Brother" angle may seem, at least it works pretty well with the EZ Pass toll system (I found out the hard way, though not intentionally!).
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  18. #18
    Hypoxic Member head_wind's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JeffS]I would be in favor of it in theory. Yes, the poor are always "victims"... oh well.

    QUOTE]

    I haven't lived in NYC since '69 (is Lindsey (sp?) still mayor??)
    but somehow I don't think that the poor have lots of cars.


    "We have met the enemy, and he is us". Pogo

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzydave
    Is this $8 on top of the $6 is already costs to take the Lincoln tunnel (is it still $6?)
    It is my understanding, based on what I heard on the radio this morning, that the congestion fee would be $8 minus entrance tolls (Bloomberg will not officially announce the proposal until Earth Day). So if you already paid $6 to get through the tunnel, the fee would only be an additional $2.

  20. #20
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    Sweet!!

    Now, if we could just get the politicians to man up and look seriously at raising the federal gasoline tax, we might be able to make some real progress on things like global warming and our dependence on Muslim oil.
    CycliStats.com - Software for Cyclists
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  21. #21
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    This sight will tell you everything about it in London. Enforcement, payment. Everything. Even a map. This may be the official sight. ?

    http://www.cclondon.com/

    It's eight pounds a day only during the daytime. I pasted paymnet enforcement and penalties here. It's computers and cameras, it's well thought out.

    TfL is bringing in extra buses to the capital‘s streets, introducing more routes and improving the frequency and reliability of other routes.You can find out more and get a bus map for your area or by calling London Bus Customer Information on
    020 7918 4300.
    The Congestion Charging Operating Hours are 7:00AM - 6:00PM Charging Days are Monday to Friday (excluding Public Holidays). The Congestion Charging Zone is clearly defined by signs and / or road markings at entrance and exit points. The standard daily charge is 8.

    You can pay your Congestion Charge:
    Online
    At selected shops, petrol stations and car parks
    By post (click to download form now)
    By telephone
    By SMS text message from your mobile phone
    At BT Internet kiosks

    You can pay your Congestion Charge for more than one day at a time by, for example, paying for a week, for a month or even for a whole year in one transaction. You can pay your Congestion Charge up to 90 days in advance, or on the day you need it

    Payment of the Congestion Charge allows you to enter, drive within, and exit the Congestion Charging Zone as many times as you wish on that day.

    There are no tollbooths or barriers around the Congestion Charging Zone and no physical tickets or passes are required. Instead, you pay to register your vehicle registration mark on a database for your journeys within the Congestion Charging Zone, on a daily, weekly, monthly or annual basis.

    Cameras read your vehicle registration mark as you enter, drive within or exit the Congestion Charging Zone and check it against the database. Once your vehicle registration mark has been matched, showing that you have paid or do not have to pay the charge (because your vehicle is exempt or 100% discounted), the photographic image of your vehicle is automatically wiped from the database.

    Following a final check at midnight (the following charging day), the computer keeps the vehicle registration mark of vehicles that should have paid but have not done so. We then manually check each recorded image and issue a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) of 100 to the registered keeper of the vehicle. As with parking penalties, this payment will be reduced to 50 for prompt payment within 14 days. Failure to pay the PCN within 28 days will result in the penalty being increased to 150

    Vehicles with three or more outstanding Congestion Charging penalty charges may be clamped or removed. Staff working on behalf of TfL are authorised to clamp and remove vehicles both within the Congestion Charging Zone and across the whole of Greater London.
    Last edited by 2manybikes; 04-20-07 at 03:17 PM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member kbabin's Avatar
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    How much does the system in Londaon cost to operate? Does it make a profit or does it just break even?

  23. #23
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Oboeguy,
    I can't find the stats at the moment, but I read somewhere that auto traffic in London's central business district decreased by about 30% after congestion pricing, but the amount of human traffic stayed relatively even. Sounds good to me.
    *************************************************

    NICE. A 30% reduction would be fantastic.
    Not good. If auto traffic went down and pedestrain traffic remained constant, then the people went elsewhere. This means more sprawl which, makes for harder and, discourages bicycleing.

  24. #24
    Me fail English? straightedge's Avatar
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    As was already mentioned, if the bridge/tunnel toll is included, it ends up being only $2 extra, not sure that's gonna discourage too many drivers.

  25. #25
    Senior Member john bono's Avatar
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    I think it is a solution in search of a problem. Anyone driving into Manhattan is going to be on the hook for at least $25 right now as it is. It is between $15 and $20 just to park, plus $6 to $8 for tolls. I don't know anyone who commutes to Manhattan who drives. It's just plain foolish to do so. People take the train, bus, etc. In fact, just to own a car in Manhattan will cost about $400/month just to store the thing.
    Ride a bike. It makes your legs stringy, and less tasty to our Kanamit friends.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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