What Would America Look Like
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What Would America Look Like
If it were illegal to use a motor vehicle for any point-to-point of less than 10 miles. I know, it is not doable for a billion reasons, but could you imagine the affect?
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A lot less traffic thats for sure. But that is impractical especially for those who have to haul, carry a whole bunch of stuff like bags of rice, construction stuff, gardeners, etc. What would be better is if a law was passed that is similar to some Asian countries that are very congested right now. In the Philippines cars in the city are given stickers by the DMV equivalent there that specifies what days those cars can and cannot be used. If applied properly people here will be forced to plan better and carpool, ride bikes, use public transit and such. Either that or buy a second car that will cover the other days.
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Originally Posted by mtnwalker
A lot less traffic thats for sure. But that is impractical especially for those who have to haul, carry a whole bunch of stuff like bags of rice, construction stuff, gardeners, etc.
We say "impossible" when we mean "impractical" and "impractical" when we mean "inconvenient". As you can see by looking at what's done elsewhere, these words have only local truth based on current situations. Let gas go to $10 a gallon, and we'll see how "impractical" it is to do hauling in the US with bicycles.
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I think public transit would be useful everywhere.
I think traffic would ease.
I think people would move back to the cities.
I think bikes would be more plentiful than vehicles on many arterial roads.
I think traffic would ease.
I think people would move back to the cities.
I think bikes would be more plentiful than vehicles on many arterial roads.
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Originally Posted by JumboRider
I think public transit would be useful everywhere.
I think traffic would ease.
I think people would move back to the cities.
I think bikes would be more plentiful than vehicles on many arterial roads.
I think traffic would ease.
I think people would move back to the cities.
I think bikes would be more plentiful than vehicles on many arterial roads.
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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Well, it sure would make moving to a new home a longer, more physical process.
Maybe horses and wagons would make a comeback! Well..that might not be as attractive to cyclists as some might think.
Maybe horses and wagons would make a comeback! Well..that might not be as attractive to cyclists as some might think.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Well, it sure would make moving to a new home a longer, more physical process.
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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Originally Posted by lil brown bat
We say "impossible" when we mean "impractical" and "impractical" when we mean "inconvenient". As you can see by looking at what's done elsewhere, these words have only local truth based on current situations. Let gas go to $10 a gallon, and we'll see how "impractical" it is to do hauling in the US with bicycles.
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Or maybe people would downsize the amount of stuff that they have. That way, when they move, they could transport everything that they own by a few loads of a bike and trailer. You could have your friends help you and use their bikes too.
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There would be a lot of junk littering the roads if people couldn't easily transport large items for sale or to trash. Similar to what my neighborhood looks like, with neighbors hauling their unwanted items to the street corner to be taken by other neighbors or hauled away by the city dept. of public works. Except there would be a lot more couches, old projection TV's, etc. which people already don't want to deal with and illegally leave it on the street.
#17
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I think the government should just tax gas to raise the price. Hey, add a $3 per gallon tax to gas in addition to the current taxes. Offset my income taxes by gas tax. Use a portion of the proceeds to develop public transportation instead of building more highways. European countries do this. Their gasoline prices are significantly higher than ours in the U.S. and I wouldn't say that it has had much of an impact on their "development" and profitable businesses.
And gas at $7-$10 a gallon still gives the rich the option to drive around their 8,10, 12 cylinder vehicles. It would take me off the roads for most things. But truthfully, most of us could get 90 percent of what we need to do with the use of other transportation if it were dependable, cost effective, and readily available. I know I'm going to hear the argument about the salesman, construction worker, etc. that need their vehicle to do business. No argument from me on that... just price the cost of gas into your end product. It's just a cost of doing business and if your product is necessary for us or we want it bad enough.. we'll pay the higher price (just like we do for gas.)
I need my car at times too. When I do, i'll pay whatever I have to for the gas. For most people, driving habits haven't changed with gas prices going from $1 per gallon to $3.50 per gallon. But, I think at $10 per gallon they would. It's also nice to know that you could avoid paying some taxes by not buying gasoline... it would actually be more fair... the rich that could afford lots of gas and buy it would be paying a larger portion of the taxes.. (I would encourage them to have 16 cylinder vehicles that get 4 mpg).. and the proceeds would go toward buses, trains, light rail, MUP's, and bike lanes.
And gas at $7-$10 a gallon still gives the rich the option to drive around their 8,10, 12 cylinder vehicles. It would take me off the roads for most things. But truthfully, most of us could get 90 percent of what we need to do with the use of other transportation if it were dependable, cost effective, and readily available. I know I'm going to hear the argument about the salesman, construction worker, etc. that need their vehicle to do business. No argument from me on that... just price the cost of gas into your end product. It's just a cost of doing business and if your product is necessary for us or we want it bad enough.. we'll pay the higher price (just like we do for gas.)
I need my car at times too. When I do, i'll pay whatever I have to for the gas. For most people, driving habits haven't changed with gas prices going from $1 per gallon to $3.50 per gallon. But, I think at $10 per gallon they would. It's also nice to know that you could avoid paying some taxes by not buying gasoline... it would actually be more fair... the rich that could afford lots of gas and buy it would be paying a larger portion of the taxes.. (I would encourage them to have 16 cylinder vehicles that get 4 mpg).. and the proceeds would go toward buses, trains, light rail, MUP's, and bike lanes.
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take to distance from 10 to 4 miles and try it then, with exceptions for heavy load days...
for some inspiration, just look to Europe, where until a few years ago, people did daily shopping and walked/rode to most places they went on a daily basis. if it was too far for that, they took mass transit...
I try to live near work and amenities...thats my decision...2 min to store on bike, 5 min to about 20 restaurants, 18 min to work, 10 min to theater...
people are jealous that its so simple for us to get what we need, yet they are the ones who chose to live in a McMansion in the burbs with only 1 road out of their subdivision and 5 miles to the grocery store on a 6 lane road... suckers
for some inspiration, just look to Europe, where until a few years ago, people did daily shopping and walked/rode to most places they went on a daily basis. if it was too far for that, they took mass transit...
I try to live near work and amenities...thats my decision...2 min to store on bike, 5 min to about 20 restaurants, 18 min to work, 10 min to theater...
people are jealous that its so simple for us to get what we need, yet they are the ones who chose to live in a McMansion in the burbs with only 1 road out of their subdivision and 5 miles to the grocery store on a 6 lane road... suckers
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The only thing that would REALLY happen:
People would move farther out into the suburbs. Cities would suffer massive population decline. Everyone would drive 11 miles to the store.
after 8pm and on weekends every city would look like downtown chicago at night, or that first scene in 28 days later. (you can go blocks and blocks among the skyscrapers without seeing a single car or person after 8pm or on sundays here, the loop completely evacuates).
People would move farther out into the suburbs. Cities would suffer massive population decline. Everyone would drive 11 miles to the store.
after 8pm and on weekends every city would look like downtown chicago at night, or that first scene in 28 days later. (you can go blocks and blocks among the skyscrapers without seeing a single car or person after 8pm or on sundays here, the loop completely evacuates).
Last edited by lima_bean; 05-25-07 at 10:00 AM.
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Originally Posted by InTheRain
It's also nice to know that you could avoid paying some taxes by not buying gasoline... it would actually be more fair... the rich that could afford lots of gas and buy it would be paying a larger portion of the taxes.. (I would encourage them to have 16 cylinder vehicles that get 4 mpg).. and the proceeds would go toward buses, trains, light rail, MUP's, and bike lanes.
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Originally Posted by lima_bean
The only thing that would REALLY happen:
People would move farther out into the suburbs. Cities would suffer massive population decline.
after 8pm and on weekends every city would look like downtown chicago at night, or that first scene in 28 days later. (you can go blocks and blocks among the skyscrapers without seeing a single car or person after 8pm or on sundays here, the loop completely).
People would move farther out into the suburbs. Cities would suffer massive population decline.
after 8pm and on weekends every city would look like downtown chicago at night, or that first scene in 28 days later. (you can go blocks and blocks among the skyscrapers without seeing a single car or person after 8pm or on sundays here, the loop completely).
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
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Originally Posted by mtnwalker
I mean impractical. Lets say you are going to Costco to buy your groceries/home stuff/etc. NO way that stuff can fit on those bikes you showed.
This is the core of the issue, I think, mtnwalker: if we want to continue to "live like Americans", then yes, we "need" cars. But "living like Americans" is a historical anomaly. It's not the destiny of the human race and it's not something the planet can support. As a friend said to me at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, "there's not enough oil in the world for them to live like we do."
I'm not a luddite and I'm not into sackcloth and ashes. I just think that this is where our consumption is eventually going to take us: into a time where we're going to learn some new "practical" realities.
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Who is going to do the farming? Or are we going to hand carry the crops from the field to the barn? Get a grip. America must have powered trans. to remain the incredibly rich place it is. I guess we could ban cars altogether, but get used to buying a 20 dollar bike instead of a zillion dollar Cervelo.