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  1. #76
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freako View Post
    I don't think that the Dinotte is worth over 7 times the cost of the BLT; and according to the pics your only gaining about 10% in brightness with the Dinotte.
    As dignified as I can be, Freako ... You are completely wrong. These are pictures from my post last year.

    Here is a shot of the Dinotte, Superflash, and LD1000 shot in manual from a Canon 5D, all with fresh batteries.

    Dinotte





    Superflash





    Cateye LD1000




    So please, no more uninformed opinions from people who don't know or have direct experience, OK. This is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY ... WAY more than a 10% difference

  2. #77
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    ok, so I just got my Superflash and can't remove the clip from the back to attach the other pieces...is there a trick?

    thanx
    Fixed or Free, just ride your bike!

  3. #78
    meep! legot73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoons View Post
    ok, so I just got my Superflash and can't remove the clip from the back to attach the other pieces...is there a trick?

    thanx
    You gotta pull the bottom tab toward the light housing with a fingernail or tip, then lift it out. It should slide out pretty easily once the lock tab is pulled away.
    Nothing says "in good times and in bad" like a good pair of fenders

  4. #79
    meep! legot73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoons View Post
    ok, so I just got my Superflash and can't remove the clip from the back to attach the other pieces...is there a trick?

    thanx
    Sorry, I read your post again. The clip doesn't come off, it should slide into the other mounting hardware and "click" into place.
    Nothing says "in good times and in bad" like a good pair of fenders

  5. #80
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    Freako

    I mentioned in my original post that it was difficult to get the angle of the of the lights right, there is always going to be one light that is at the favored angle, the actual center of the photo is just above the BLT super doppler with the three leds. No matter what the angle I could'nt get the PB superflash to be any brighter. I was trying to comprimise and get the best relative outcome for all the lights and for the picture to reflect accurately what I saw in person, I have no relationship to Dinotte in anyway other than as a customer.

    Here is another photo, with a slight change in angle.



    My aim was give other riders an accurate assesment of their rear lighting options at night, as it worries me their are many people out there who just can't be seen well enough.

    Your entitled to your opinion on the merits of each light, I have all three lights the Dinotte, BLS Super Doppler and PD Superflash. I've put them all on the bike at the same time, walked down the road (500m or more ) and looked at the lights from all angles in all modes (eg. flashing and full on) and have shone them at a wall where unfortunately the Dinotte completely floods the other two, so its not much of picture.

    IMHO the dinotte eclispes the other 2 lights quite significantly when compared one on one, with the PB having the lowest intensity from straight on or side on (main led). I have used to use the BLT super doppler for 2 years (I have 4 of them) but the beam on them is very focused to a point, so you need more than one. The PB Superflash has a wider throw of light, but is slightly less intense as you can't focus the led. I also did'nt find the slower supeflash flashing pattern as effective in grabing my attention as the flashing modes on the other lights. The BLT and the PD superflash can be seen better from perfectly side on due to their transperant casings, but again the intensity is still an issue if you want to be seen from a fair distance.

    The Dinotte is the best of both worlds as the extra power of the led gives you a bit more intensity than the BLT and the extra power allows a wider throw than the PB superflash.

    You can of course run 2 or 3 BLT's or PB superflashes to get a similiar type of coverage to the Dinotte but its really the rear lights intensity and the width of that intensity that matters from my personal view point.

    The Dinotte is the best of both worlds as the extra power of the led gives you a bit more intensity than the BLT and the extra power allows a wider throw than the PB superflash.

    Hopefully this response has cleared up any issues with my previous post and hopefully I have not unintentionally misled anyone.

    Regards
    Ken
    Last edited by kleng; 07-26-07 at 10:45 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoons View Post
    ok, so I just got my Superflash and can't remove the clip from the back to attach the other pieces...is there a trick?
    My trick is... to keep it there.

    I made an aluminium angle bracket that I attached behind my rear rack. There is a slot into which I clip the Superflash. With a tiny #6 bolt, I then bolted through the rear casing, the aluminium plate and the bracket. It won't move.
    Michel Gagnon
    Montréal (Québec, Canada)

  7. #82
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    Ken, I suspect you photographed the Dinotte at the High setting. One of the drawbacks of the Dinotte is that it's rated for only 3 hours at High, and 12 hours at low, so a little bit of battery planning is in order. If you set the Dinotte at Low, how does it compare to the Superflash or Rear Super Doppler DX ?
    Michel Gagnon
    Montréal (Québec, Canada)

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleng View Post
    IHopefully this response has cleared up any issues with my previous post and hopefully I have not unintentionally misled anyone.

    Regards
    Ken
    Now that was a very good explaination Ken. I still rather hoped that you could show the BLT on the wall by itself as you did with the Dinotte, LD1000 and the SF by themselves. But at least your explaination I feel was honest and sincere. I personally still do not believe that the Dinotte is worth over 7 times the cost of the BLT when the BLT "appears" (note the quotation marks) to be maybe 10 to 15 percent max less bright then the Dinotte. However if you have the cash and feel you need to spend the money to get the best taillight there is then by all means spend the green. I have a high interest in this subject because I'm looking for a better rear light for my tourer but I don't want to spend $140+ to do it, thus at this point the BLT seems to be my next best choice.

    As far as the high VS low setting, I can only think of two things about that; first off the arguement was which taillight is the brightest not which one will burn the longest; second thing is that if it burns for 3 hours on high how long do you ride at night? Most headlights only burn for 1 to 2 hours on high, thus your headlight will be dead before your taillight anyways, and what percentage of people actually ride more then 2 hours in the dark not alone 3?

  9. #84
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=freako;4941321]Now that was a very good explaination Ken. I still rather hoped that you could show the BLT on the wall by itself as you did with the Dinotte, LD1000 and the SF by themselves.

    Freako

    Another OP posted the pictures of the lights against the wall so I can't take credit for those.
    but I'll take some more, showing the Dinotte, BLT super doppler, PB superflash and the Cateye Tl-LD1000 by themselves against a wall, using the same distance, apeture and shutter speed.

  10. #85
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    Freako, Michel

    Here are the wall photos, Canon EOS 300D , 1/25th second shutter, F5.6 apeture. The must analysed relative to each other, in practice they are much brighter.

    Knog Frog


    BLT Super Doppler


    Cateye TL-LD1000


    PB Superflash


    Dinotte Tail light - low power


    Dinotte Tail light - medium


    Dinotte Tail light - High


    All together, from L to R, cateye, BLT, Superflash, Dinotte (low), Knog is in front



  11. #86
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    Kleng, nice job, consistent results with what I shot. Honestly, I think some will continue to only say 10-15% brighter for the Dinotte. LOL! More like 10-15 times.

    If you want to look at side lighting, check this out.

    Superflash and L&M ARC HID up front.




    LD1000 and L&M ARC HID






    Dinotte Tail and L&M ARC HID




    So, even though the Dinotte doesn't have specific side lighting, it is so bright it still does well with side lighting and presents a great "light splash" behind the unit.

  12. #87
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    Ken and ColorChange...VERY NICE PICTURES!!!! Those pics really were done fairly and obvious the clear winner is the Dinotte, and in 2nd the clear winner is the BLT with the SuperFlash a distant 3rd. I for one would no longer say that the Dinotte on medium or high is only 10 to 15% so ColorChange you were wrong about that one.

    HOWEVER, as I had stated earlier that neither myself nor anyone I've ever known has ever been hit from behind, even with the older far dimmer lights then even the Knog Ken showed. But this doesn't mean that I'm implying that one needs to buy the Knog, you should buy the brightest rear light you can comfortably afford, or at least think is reasonable to have. I tour with just a 16 watt halogen headlight even though I could afford a far brighter and far more expensive light I just don't see the need for it; likewise with the tailight, I can't justify spending $140 for a light when the BLT is more then adequate-I feel safe with those lights and never had a situation occur where I haven't felt safe due to inadequate lighting. I can see the road very well in pitch dark nights and drivers can see me very well in the same conditions. But some riders don't feel their as safe without using the brightest lights, thus for peace of mind they need to have the brightest to feel safe.

    One note, from the appearance of the light cast onto the ground and wall from the Dinotte one would conclude that it's projected beam is even way brighter then any car; so one should ponder whether that is more then one needs, but again safety relative to ones peace of mind comes first.

  13. #88
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorChange View Post
    Kleng, nice job, consistent results with what I shot. Honestly, I think some will continue to only say 10-15% brighter for the Dinotte. LOL! More like 10-15 times.
    ColorChange

    Excellent pictures, I think they are representative of what a driver would see from a road perspective side on. Well done, this is what I am trying to make people aware of, according to a study done 2005
    and published by Bicycling Australia magazine more than 62% of bicyclist have inadequate rear lighting and that 3 out of the 8 cycling deaths that year were the result of not being seen at night. Fellow bikes please don't be overconfident with a single blinkie, which appears impossibly bright inside, but in real conditions outside cannot be really seen. As we have discussed in this thread almost all of the lights need to be used in conjuction with others, even my dinotte is backed up a knog frog on the helmet and bar-end lites.


    Last edited by kleng; 07-27-07 at 04:13 PM.

  14. #89
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freako View Post
    Ken and ColorChange...VERY NICE PICTURES!!!! Those pics really were done fairly and obvious the clear winner is the Dinotte, and in 2nd the clear winner is the BLT with the SuperFlash a distant 3rd. I for one would no longer say that the Dinotte on medium or high is only 10 to 15% so ColorChange you were wrong about that one.

    HOWEVER, as I had stated earlier that neither myself nor anyone I've ever known has ever been hit from behind, even with the older far dimmer lights then even the Knog Ken showed. But this doesn't mean that I'm implying that one needs to buy the Knog, you should buy the brightest rear light you can comfortably afford, or at least think is reasonable to have. I tour with just a 16 watt halogen headlight even though I could afford a far brighter and far more expensive light I just don't see the need for it; likewise with the tailight, I can't justify spending $140 for a light when the BLT is more then adequate-I feel safe with those lights and never had a situation occur where I haven't felt safe due to inadequate lighting. I can see the road very well in pitch dark nights and drivers can see me very well in the same conditions. But some riders don't feel their as safe without using the brightest lights, thus for peace of mind they need to have the brightest to feel safe.

    One note, from the appearance of the light cast onto the ground and wall from the Dinotte one would conclude that it's projected beam is even way brighter then any car; so one should ponder whether that is more then one needs, but again safety relative to ones peace of mind comes first.
    Freako

    Thanks for your informed comments, they bottom line for my responses is for my fellow bikers to be safe out there and that they have the oppurtunity to enjoy cycling for a very long time. With the roads I ride early in the morning (5.30am) I actually feel really unsafe, with several instances where large trucks have come very close almost sideswiping me, actually I feel safe at night. , that is why I decided to invest in the Dinotte, as you can see from my led collection (and I have more) that I have searched high and low for the right rear light combinations. I really want the drivers to see me more than 500m away.

    I agree with the facts that you don't need to buy expensive rear lights, but for others please don't become complacent with the $5-10 small blikie that appears to super bright in a dark room, but outside
    can't really be seen at all. Why not combine rear led lights together and as my wife always says "you look like a christmas tree"

    Safe riding to all
    Regards
    Ken

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    Ken; I ride a fair amount at night; I don't do all nighters, but when I ride at night it's for maybe a hour or two max. I have found over the years by personal experience and by seeing others on the road myself while in a car that multiable tailights are more effective then just using 1, and the newer modern brighter LED's are also more noticible then the old candle flickers we had before. When I ride at night, or on a tour, I ride with endbar lights as well as three tailights on the rear to form a triangle shape. Sometimes the bags cause a problem, but velcro takes care of most of that. But the round shaped BLT or Dinotte interest me because I think I can attach with velcro straps to the sides better then square jobs to the rear of a bag.

    I'm also needing a new helmet and I'm seriously looking at the Bell Metro with it's ability to attach a tailight to the space provided in the helmet.

  16. #91
    Safety Zealot wyeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleng View Post
    Fellow bikes please don't be overconfident with a single blinkie, which appears impossibly bright inside, but in real conditions outside cannot be really seen.
    Actually, this advice can apply even if you have one "Uber" light - under the right lighting conditions, you can wash out all visual reference to yourself except for a single blinding red light source. This can make it nearly impossible for a vehicle to properly gauge your distance until they are extremely close to you, when you're illuminated enough to overpower the red light.

    Having more than one light source (for example helmet and back of bike) can give the driver a better visual cue for distance as the lights diverge.

    On a related note - the rear clip on the Metro is pretty tight. Depending on the light you may have some difficulty reaching the switch without fumbling and/or removing the helmet to do it.


  17. #92
    3 seconds ColorChange's Avatar
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    While this alone might only be funny:


    Quote Originally Posted by freako View Post
    but the Dinotte has no side lighting capability, it's just very bright when viewed from the rear.
    My pictures show this statement is 100% wrong.

    This is just plain ludicrous.

    You are the one who quoted a 10% difference, I claimed a 10 TIMES difference. Nice try editing out YOUR wrong 10% claim but you can see it in my post at the top of page 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by freako View Post
    I for one would no longer say that the Dinotte on medium or high is only 10 to 15% so ColorChange you were wrong about that one.
    I'm wrong for YOUR wrong statement? !!! Ha Ha Ha.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleng View Post
    As we have discussed in this thread almost all of the lights need to be used in conjuction with others, even my dinotte is backed up a knog frog on the helmet and bar-end lites.

    Kleng where did you get those bar-end lights? How bright are they?

  19. #94
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    ColorChange,

    Thanks for the photos. They clearly show that the Dinotte is 5-6 times brighter than the Superflash and roughly twice brighter than the Super Doppler DX on axis.
    Michel Gagnon
    Montréal (Québec, Canada)

  20. #95
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesper64 View Post
    Kleng where did you get those bar-end lights? How bright are they?
    From here,

    http://www.bikesmart.com/index.cfm?m...tRow=1&afid=17

    their reasonably powerful about as powerful as the knog frog light in the previous pictures
    They should not be used as the primary rear light source, just as back up.
    Also their effectiveness diminishes if the flat sections of your road bike handle bars are not horizontal as their angle can't be adjusted without rotating the bars.

  21. #96
    Mildly Insane voxadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesper64 View Post
    Kleng where did you get those bar-end lights? How bright are they?
    They look like DropFlash Bar End Lights.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." --Robert A. Heinlein

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorChange View Post
    While this alone might only be funny:




    My pictures show this statement is 100% wrong.

    This is just plain ludicrous.

    You are the one who quoted a 10% difference, I claimed a 10 TIMES difference. Nice try editing out YOUR wrong 10% claim but you can see it in my post at the top of page 4.



    I'm wrong for YOUR wrong statement? !!! Ha Ha Ha.

    Colorchange; Talking about being ludicrous, your that and then some.

    You haven't read my 2nd to last post (before this one) dated on 8/27/07 at 8:56am, if you had you wouldn't have gone through all the hassle to flame me when I had already surrendered to the Dinotte being brighter due to the pics that KEN AND YOU...THAT's RIGHT YOU, had taken. Please go back to that post I mentioned above on 8/27/07 at 8:56am. I even acknowledged YOU by name!!!!

    And I didn't edit nothing, my statement at the beginning of post 4 had nothing to do with your statements that was my statement that at the time the pics of the Dinotte only looked about 10% brighter then the BLT to me. But again I changed my tune on that post I mentioned in the above paragraph.

    What happen to you today ColorChange, wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

  23. #98
    Safety Zealot wyeast's Avatar
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    Good grief, everyone getting so wound up over which light to use.

    For me, it comes down to this. Everyone rides in different conditions. Quiet roads, dense traffic, no lighting, riding under storefront marquees.

    Is the Dinotte bright? Hell yeah it's bright. Almost too bright. Perfect if you're riding in heavy weather, dense traffic, and desperate to stand out among the myriad of headlights and other distractions on the road.

    But in other situations, you can get by acceptably with something a little less dazzling. Look at ColorChange's pic of the sidelights on the Cateye:
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorChange
    That's just two little 5mm LED's, perfectly capable of attracting attention when riding under less-than-severe conditions. Granted, not everyone is so lucky as to ride on quiet suburban streets with slow traffic.

    But everyone has different needs and priorities. The Dinotte's "splash" on the ground does have great side visibility under certain conditions. (nearby objects to the side, concrete pavement, dry conditions, etc). But it may not be much at all under other conditions. (crossing a black asphalt street in the rain, no nearby objects to the side) Under those conditions, the same budget may be better spent on multiple PB's or Flashpoints than on a single Dinotte.

    By the same token, the reason I didn't go with a PB is because I use a helmet mount, which means it's very likely that a lot of the time the light will be off-axis to cars behind me, and I felt the PB's performance in that regard would not be as acceptable.

    Don't get me wrong. The Dinotte kicks ass and I am firmly in the 'more is better' camp. Just that sometimes, more means more physical light sources, and not just one really really bright one.

    In this context, moxfyre believes that the 5-LED blinkies he used before was acceptable for his riding conditions - he's mainly looking for better durability. The Dinotte will be tough as nails in this regard. But I've also found that PlanetBike and Cateye have been acceptably durable as well, particularly with LED's I don't really recall having a bike light fail on me yet. (knock on wood)

    So my vote - either go with the Dinotte or go with PB's/Cateyes. (multiples, even ) Comes down to which suits your purpose better.

    Happy riding!

  24. #99
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    I like the passive/active mix for night riding.

    this safety triangle is about 12 inches on a side. its paired with a PB superflash, and a backup Vistalite. This last winter I aimed a second Superflash from the seatstay to directly flash on the triangle from behind. being angled to the left, this second Superflash was also more apparant to cars as they passed.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

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    Pistols at dawn it is then! There's clearly no other way to settle this debate. Three groups arranged in a triangular pattern. The Dinotte zealots will try to take out the PB Superflash fanatics, who will be shooting at the Cateye LD1000 nuts, who will, in turn, be trying to *** down the Dinotte group. Last man standing = the best rear blinkie !
    Last edited by ginsoakedboy; 07-29-07 at 02:53 AM.

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