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  1. #1
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    Civia at Interbike

    I found the following item about the new Civia bikes at Interbike with photo:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...nd-bauer-12593

    looks pretty cool, although I'm not a big fan of chocolate brown. There are probably some better links out there but this is the first I ran across.

  2. #2
    Senior Member pluc's Avatar
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    It looks damned good but I have a few complaints:
    - Disc brake only
    - Carbon fork? Why?! It's a commuter!
    - 700 wheels only (I need 26 for my winter studs)
    - Fenders: not sure they are wide enough for 700 studded tires
    - Not sure about bar choice, should be an option
    - No lighting system, even as an option. A dynamo option would be good.

    Pretty cool design for a racy commuter. I really like the white one.

  3. #3
    ride for a change modernjess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluc View Post
    It looks damned good but I have a few complaints:
    - Disc brake only
    - Carbon fork? Why?! It's a commuter!
    - 700 wheels only (I need 26 for my winter studs)
    - Fenders: not sure they are wide enough for 700 studded tires
    - Not sure about bar choice, should be an option
    - No lighting system, even as an option. A dynamo option would be good.

    Pretty cool design for a racy commuter. I really like the white one.
    +1 on all points, except I like 700c wheels better. but clearance is still an issue with studs. But overall it looks pretty great.

    Maybe it's the Ken Burns documentary on my mind, but flat brown color looks like something out of World War II, and not in a good way.

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    Their website (Civia Cycles) is up -- specs. are on 'Products'. To my mind, looks terrific, and really well thought out. I like discs, so no issue there for me; do wish (maybe eventually?) either a 26" or 650B alternative, but everything else good. Four iterations as a complete bike: Shimano Alfine, Rohloff (sp?), der. geared, and singlespeed, or buy the frameset. Oh, and far as I can tell, at least the Alfine and Rohloff variations have dynamo lighting as standard. It's a gamble (high-end, high-spec. 'fast commuter/light touring/trekking bike), but have a feeling might work.

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    The front fender has really good forward coverage.

    I like the discs, the 700c wheels, the carbon fork... I think it's a cool bike. I prefer drop bars, but maybe we could compromise on a funky moustache.
    I don't even use the offensive term "Fred." -- Sheldon "All Cyclists Are My Friends" Brown (1944-2008)

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    I also noticed that the max is 700x32 tires from their website. I guess nobody commutes over potholes, broken pavement, errant holes left by utility crews/plumbers (I swear that everyone in STL is getting a new water service), manholes, etc.

    My L200 came with 700x38 tires, and sometimes I think something fatter would be much better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.lloyd View Post
    I also noticed that the max is 700x32 tires from their website. I guess nobody commutes over potholes, broken pavement, errant holes left by utility crews/plumbers (I swear that everyone in STL is getting a new water service), manholes, etc.

    My L200 came with 700x38 tires, and sometimes I think something fatter would be much better.
    Agreed: that, I think, is the only significant quibble I have, so far as I can see, with the initial design. My hope is that this is just the first of a couple of variations on the basic theme; personally, I'd like to see a second version, essentially specced identically, but around either 26er mtb, or (even better, if they continue to develop) 650B wheelsize, allowing clearance for 1.5" tires w/fenders. Even so, I'm tempted by the initial version. By the bye, I've noticed that the 'reverse snobbery' threads have already started re. this bike on some of the commuting sites ("no real cycle commuter would spend xxx on a bike" etc. etc. blah blah blah). Well, I am, and I would!

  8. #8
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluc View Post
    It looks damned good but I have a few complaints:
    - Disc brake only
    - Carbon fork? Why?! It's a commuter!
    - 700 wheels only (I need 26 for my winter studs)
    - Fenders: not sure they are wide enough for 700 studded tires
    - Not sure about bar choice, should be an option
    - No lighting system, even as an option. A dynamo option would be good.

    Pretty cool design for a racy commuter. I really like the white one.
    - The front hub is listed as an Alfine dynamo.
    - That brown is horrendous. The white is a little better, but painting their rather ugly welds an alternate color seems odd.

    - I'm not sure that I'm willing to go back to a flatbar bike at this point, so it may be a moot point for me.

  9. #9
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
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    - I'm not sure that I'm willing to go back to a flatbar bike at this point, so it may be a moot point for me.[/QUOTE]


    +1

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    I have to assume that brown looks better in person than in photographs because it looks really ugly. I didn't realize there was so much retro grouchery around here. Decent disc brakes are better than decent rim brakes in almost all situations and going any further than about 10 miles, the carbon fork is very nice to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmonster75 View Post
    I have to assume that brown looks better in person than in photographs because it looks really ugly. I didn't realize there was so much retro grouchery around here. Decent disc brakes are better than decent rim brakes in almost all situations and going any further than about 10 miles, the carbon fork is very nice to have.
    Oh, there is, there is!! Ain't seen nothin' yet: the retrogrouchery will hit the fan in due course, I'm sure However, I'm with you on this one: discs, +++1 for me; ditto carbon fork; ditto (choice of) internal drivetrain; +++++1 stainless braze-ons. I'm also a 'flat bar' fan, so no issue there for me. Wheel size apart, if I were designing a high-end commuter for myself, this thing is about what I'd come up with. Have to see it/try it, of course, but it looks very promising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Oh, and far as I can tell, at least the Alfine and Rohloff variations have dynamo lighting as standard.
    All 4 seems to specify dynamo. I guess none of them exist yet, so you can always say whatever you want is standard, but right now, they're saying dynamo hubs for everybody!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappergrass View Post
    I found the following item about the new Civia bikes at Interbike with photo:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...nd-bauer-12593

    looks pretty cool, although I'm not a big fan of chocolate brown. There are probably some better links out there but this is the first I ran across.

    I applaud QBP for trying something different---but there's one glaring problem I see. QBP distributes bikes to a huge number of bike shops. These bike shops all sell other, larger, more established brands. Those brands all sell bikes which are very similar to the Civias, but a WHOLE lot less expensive. I look at the 2008Raleigh Detour Deluxe. With the exception of the frame gimmicks, it is very, very close to the Civia. It has a rack, fenders, aluminum frame, discs, a dynohub AND lights---for $710. Selling expensive road bikes or MTBs is pretty easy, I think. Let someone heft a light road bike and it sells itself. Show someone a beautifully handmade Waterford road bike, same thing.

    Show someone a technologically advanced dual suspension MTB--they understand the benefits.

    How do you sell the Civia, and how many bike shops are going to spend their $ to stock it, when Trek/Specialized/Giant/Raleigh/Cannondale all sell bikes which are almost indistingishable?

    I'm not a cheapskate. I commute on a nice bike. These Civias seem like style over substance, and they're WAY too expensive. When you're pricing a singlespeed at $1900 there better be a darned good reason. What is it?

  14. #14
    Senior Member BikeManDan's Avatar
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    They pretty much built my exact bike I built myself except they're charging $2200 and I paid less than $800

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    Carbon fork because if you're riding to work you might as well have a nicer ride. You're going to need the pampering.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    What a shame they are only producing aluminum frames. My wife would have loved one of those if steel.

  17. #17
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwinnrider View Post
    I applaud QBP for trying something different---but there's one glaring problem I see. QBP distributes bikes to a huge number of bike shops. These bike shops all sell other, larger, more established brands. Those brands all sell bikes which are very similar to the Civias, but a WHOLE lot less expensive. I look at the 2008Raleigh Detour Deluxe. With the exception of the frame gimmicks, it is very, very close to the Civia. It has a rack, fenders, aluminum frame, discs, a dynohub AND lights---for $710. Selling expensive road bikes or MTBs is pretty easy, I think. Let someone heft a light road bike and it sells itself. Show someone a beautifully handmade Waterford road bike, same thing.

    Show someone a technologically advanced dual suspension MTB--they understand the benefits.

    How do you sell the Civia, and how many bike shops are going to spend their $ to stock it, when Trek/Specialized/Giant/Raleigh/Cannondale all sell bikes which are almost indistingishable?

    I'm not a cheapskate. I commute on a nice bike. These Civias seem like style over substance, and they're WAY too expensive. When you're pricing a singlespeed at $1900 there better be a darned good reason. What is it?

    The Civia proposed spec is higher at every single component. An Alfine groupset costs more than Deore/Alivio/Tektro. DTSwiss rims, painted fenders and rack, sliding dropouts, additional frame manipulation -- all these things cost money. There are plenty of people who will recognize this and pay more for it.

    As far as stock... I don't know of a single bike shop in town that stocks a range of Surly or Salsa bikes, yet there are plenty of people around who own them. I'm sure the shops love the thought of being able to sell a product they don't have to inventory.

    I've seen quite a few threads here from people wanting off-the-shelf Alfine and Rohloff bikes. Whether this model will make them part with the money will likely depend on final specs and pricing.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
    The Civia proposed spec is higher at every single component. An Alfine groupset costs more than Deore/Alivio/Tektro. DTSwiss rims, painted fenders and rack, sliding dropouts, additional frame manipulation -- all these things cost money. There are plenty of people who will recognize this and pay more for it.

    As far as stock... I don't know of a single bike shop in town that stocks a range of Surly or Salsa bikes, yet there are plenty of people around who own them. I'm sure the shops love the thought of being able to sell a product they don't have to inventory.

    I've seen quite a few threads here from people wanting off-the-shelf Alfine and Rohloff bikes. Whether this model will make them part with the money will likely depend on final specs and pricing.
    Surlys sell because they're inexpensive, durable, and cool. Most of Surly's sales are framesets. Cheap framesets. $400 framesets sold to people who are enthusiasts who know exactly what they want.

    All the techie stuff you mentioned---does that REALLY matter on a bike that's going to be laden down with commuting gear and locked to a rack? Nah. As I mentioned, the major manufacturers already sell bikes that are the functional duplicates of the Civia, but for a whole lot less money. Civia's going to be a big, huge, screaming failure. Super expensive isn't the way to sell commuters. Cheap and cool is the way to sell commuters.

    The Civias are too expensive for what they are, IMHO. I can buy an ANT Boston Roadster for less than the most expensive Civias. I can buy a Rivendell Atlantis for $2500, and that leaves $500 for fenders, rack, bags, and lighting. It's easily doable.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=dwainedibbly;5349096]Carbon fork because if you're riding to work you might as well have a nicer ride. You're going to need the pampering. [/QUOTE

    They'd be better off just speccing fatter tires.

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    Hee, hee, hee As I said earlier, it wouldn't (and didn't) take long for the a) commuter reverse snobbery and b) retrogrouchery to begin. Oh well: predictable, at any rate. Let's summarize and anticipate.

    1. Too expensive/no one will buy these. Well, maybe -- we'll see, won't we. Two things. First, can't imagine QBP took a leap of faith on this one -- one would think they did some market research, at least. Second, bikes of this kind/AT THIS PRICING proliferate in Europe, and from what I understand sell pretty steadily. I would think there's many reasons for this, but one of them surely is that in Europe no one sees much wrong with thinking of 'commuter/trekking' bikes being available at all price/quality levels, from basic on up to high end, just as do road race or mountain bikes. If, like moi for example, most of your cycling mileage is accumulated commuting and you enjoy riding a really well made, 'high end' bike for that purpose, and security during the day isn't an issue, why the h_ll not??

    2. Too expensive for what it is. Don't see it, myself. A fully set up, Rohloff/XT level bike w/discs, carbon fork, for about $3200 or so? Seems about right to me, provided of course the frame/fork quality is there. Take a look at, e.g., Thorn's (U.K.) Rohloff pricing.

    3. But it's not steel. Well, no -- it isn't. Some will care, some won't. All depends. I don't want a steel frame on an everyday, 3/3 and a half season commuter being used in Southwestern Ontario in all kinds of conditions. I would love a really good alu. frame, designed/thought out for the purpose, with stainless steel fittings and carbon fork, Rohloff, discs. Along comes a bike that meets that description. I'm interested.

  21. #21
    Bike Nerd Mr. Jim's Avatar
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    Nice bike, the price point is out of my range, but compared to what my buddies spend on high end road bikes and triathlon bikes it's nothing. I know guys who spend more on a set of race wheels. Some of these guys have dropped more than this on a commuter bike usually a cross bike set up for commuting. I believe the market is there for this bike, but many of us here may not be that market.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Hee, hee, hee As I said earlier, it wouldn't (and didn't) take long for the a) commuter reverse snobbery and b) retrogrouchery to begin. Oh well: predictable, at any rate. Let's summarize and anticipate.

    1. Too expensive/no one will buy these. Well, maybe -- we'll see, won't we. Two things. First, can't imagine QBP took a leap of faith on this one -- one would think they did some market research, at least. Second, bikes of this kind/AT THIS PRICING proliferate in Europe, and from what I understand sell pretty steadily. I would think there's many reasons for this, but one of them surely is that in Europe no one sees much wrong with thinking of 'commuter/trekking' bikes being available at all price/quality levels, from basic on up to high end, just as do road race or mountain bikes. If, like moi for example, most of your cycling mileage is accumulated commuting and you enjoy riding a really well made, 'high end' bike for that purpose, and security during the day isn't an issue, why the h_ll not??


    --The US isn't Europe. Canada is kind of Europe-lite, but the US isn't Europe. You can't compare the two. Tiny little cars don't sell well in the US, and fully loaded commuter bikes for $2000 and up aren't going to sell, either. Shops aren't going to stock them.

    2. Too expensive for what it is. Don't see it, myself. A fully set up, Rohloff/XT level bike w/discs, carbon fork, for about $3200 or so? Seems about right to me, provided of course the frame/fork quality is there. Take a look at, e.g., Thorn's (U.K.) Rohloff pricing.


    ---The US isn't Europe.

    3. But it's not steel. Well, no -- it isn't. Some will care, some won't. All depends. I don't want a steel frame on an everyday, 3/3 and a half season commuter being used in Southwestern Ontario in all kinds of conditions. I would love a really good alu. frame, designed/thought out for the purpose, with stainless steel fittings and carbon fork, Rohloff, discs. Along comes a bike that meets that description. I'm interested.
    You may well enjoy being the only person in your town with one.

  23. #23
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    The big problem I see with the Civia is that they are single purpose. If you commute on a cross bike, as another poster said----it's STILL a cyclocross bike. You can commute on it, you can race cross on it, you can tour on it, and you can put skinny tires on it and do road rides. All you can do on a HYBRID(and that's what Civias are, gussied up hybrids) is commute to work. Shopping? Sure, if you carry a real good lock. And at that price, Civia could spec the thing with SOME sort of cargo carrying capacity. $1900 "complete commuter" but no panniers or even a rack trunk?

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    [QUOTE=Schwinnrider;5350638]
    Quote Originally Posted by dwainedibbly View Post
    Carbon fork because if you're riding to work you might as well have a nicer ride. You're going to need the pampering. [/QUOTE

    They'd be better off just speccing fatter tires.
    That's certainly an option, but some people may want to avoid the (perceived) higher rolling resistance of fatter tires, so I guess they're going for that market. There's probably a bit of "let's toss on a carbon fork to help justify the prices", too.

  25. #25
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwinnrider View Post
    The Civias are too expensive for what they are, IMHO. I can buy an ANT Boston Roadster for less than the most expensive Civias. I can buy a Rivendell Atlantis for $2500, and that leaves $500 for fenders, rack, bags, and lighting. It's easily doable.

    And?

    First of all, you have no idea what final civia pricing will be, so less than X is an invalid argument at this point. [edit] - sorry, I hadn't seen the prices listed. Their website seemed to imply that builds weren't finalized. I guess they hadn't updated it to reflect the interbike release info.

    It sounds like your problem is that this amount of money, spent on a Civia, doesn't buy you a status symbol. The ANT is a lower spec'd bike, and the Rivendell is a $1500 frame. There's no way you put together the same build level for $2500. I don't see sliding dropouts or disc brakes on either of them either.

    I doubt anyone's seriously trying to choose between a Rohloff Civia and a Rivendell. The retro-grouches tend to stay that way...

    Why everyone gets so bent out of shape at the amount of money others are willing to spend is beyond me.
    Last edited by JeffS; 09-28-07 at 11:37 PM.

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