Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    But but but... I want sharrows in my city too!

    Santa Fe is moving forward with a plan to add sharrows to 13 streets, you can read more at the link following below. Check out the spiffy picture if you haven't seen one before.

    http://www.freenewmexican.com/SantaF...pread_sharrows

    I saw the sharrows last time I visited Santa Fe. Didn't know what they were called or what exactly they were for. I did take the lane on those streets and didn't have any issues. Seeing a stenciled bicycle in the middle of the frickin' lane just begs you to take it.

    The article states that sharrows are in common use in San Francisco, anybody else have them in their city? Any opinions on how effective they really are?

  2. #2
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seattle just started...some folks are not happy with the scheme.

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We have them in Chicago and they totally suck IMO.

    You need a bike lane with an outer stripe so the cars will stay over there. They just drive halfway over the stupid sharrow (I try to line up so I cross them in the middle).

  4. #4
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sgrady11 View Post
    We have them in Chicago and they totally suck IMO.

    You need a bike lane with an outer stripe so the cars will stay over there. They just drive halfway over the stupid sharrow (I try to line up so I cross them in the middle).
    Sounds like the cars are passing you... is this on streets where traffic is substantially faster than you are? Wouldn't make much sense to do that though, as far as I understand what a sharrow means (bicycles take the full lane).

  5. #5
    domestique squeakywheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    off the back
    Posts
    2,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You know it isn't a useful sign or pavement marking if the driving rules for that particular piece of road would be no different in the absence of the sign or marking.

  6. #6
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ky. and FL.
    My Bikes
    KHS steel SS
    Posts
    3,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What are they for? Is it just a few arrows and a picture of a bike?
    Not too much to say here

  7. #7
    Gears? CliftonGK1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    My Bikes
    '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2009 Spesh Singlecross, 2011 RM Flow1
    Posts
    11,316
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by squeakywheel View Post
    You know it isn't a useful sign or pavement marking if the driving rules for that particular piece of road would be no different in the absence of the sign or marking.
    I consider sharrows to be as useful as the "Do Not Drive On Median" signs on the highway: Nothing more than a statement of the obvious, and for someone intent on disobeying the rules neither one makes any difference.
    "I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
    - Mandi M.

  8. #8
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    KIGX
    My Bikes
    2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, 2011 Windsor Shetland mini-velo, 2012 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno SSCX
    Posts
    1,691
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We have some in Sunnyvale, but they aren't in neighborhoods I frequent. The areas seem too high-traffic for such sharing to be effective.

    What I really want to know is if a sharrow in the middle of the road is going to help someone behind the wheel of an Escalade EXT with a cell phone in one hand and a latte in the other (and probably kids watching DVDs in the back) to acknowledge my existence? I have doubts.
    --Ben
    Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
    2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX
    Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014)
    Current Linux Usage (by machine): Arch: I Debian: II openSUSE: I

  9. #9
    Senior Member BikeManDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I sit on our city's bicycle and pedestrian committee and this is the kind of thing we discuss. Everytime I am blown away at the expense of merely spraying paint on the ground ! You just can't win with the city. Bureaucracy is so horribly inefficient that even the cheapest possible option, painting streets, is still too expensive!
    Now the city engineers are saying that even if they had funds in the budget they couldn't use them because they're understaffed. :-\

  10. #10
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    22,530
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by East Hill View Post
    Seattle just started...some folks are not happy with the scheme.

    East Hill
    Are those "some folks" motorists?

    "But but, what are bicycles doing on our streets.... ?"

  11. #11
    sniffin' glue zoltani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    My Bikes
    Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
    Posts
    3,183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Check out the SFBC's study of the effectiveness of sharrows around san francisco
    http://www.bicycle.sfgov.org/site/up...ort-052404.pdf

  12. #12
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zoltani View Post
    Check out the SFBC's study of the effectiveness of sharrows around san francisco
    http://www.bicycle.sfgov.org/site/up...ort-052404.pdf
    Great link, thanks for posting it up!

    Neat, the PDF specifically mentions Denver in the appendix. We have some routes marked with a "bike-in-a-house" symbol. I have seen them on the street before, but dismissed them as a routine bike route marker (non-sharrow) because its positioned in the right portion of the lane.

  13. #13
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
    We have some in Sunnyvale, but they aren't in neighborhoods I frequent. The areas seem too high-traffic for such sharing to be effective.
    This is a concern for me as well. There are a couple roads here that are designated bike lanes, but I never ride on them because people use them as primary east-west routes through the city, and traffic tends to be heavy more often than not. I do see cyclists on the roads, they're just too busy for my tastes unless I'm in the mood to crank it up a few notches )

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbenaugust View Post
    What I really want to know is if a sharrow in the middle of the road is going to help someone behind the wheel of an Escalade EXT with a cell phone in one hand and a latte in the other (and probably kids watching DVDs in the back) to acknowledge my existence? I have doubts.
    According to the SF PDF zoltani helpfully posted above, sharrows are the most noticed above bike-in-a-house and bike with separate arrow. I'll take more noticed over less, and still assume I'm invisible to drivers and other bicyclists. Heck, distracted drivers blow stop signs and red lights on a regular basis, anything that helps the somewhat mindful people notice me is good.
    Last edited by shuttoj; 10-08-07 at 03:58 PM.

  14. #14
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
    I consider sharrows to be as useful as the "Do Not Drive On Median" signs on the highway: Nothing more than a statement of the obvious, and for someone intent on disobeying the rules neither one makes any difference.
    I think they're useful, gives motorists a sort of on-the-fly education. Agreed on the disobeying the rules bit.

  15. #15
    sniffin' glue zoltani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    My Bikes
    Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
    Posts
    3,183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually, sharrows around here are not in the middle of the lane at all. They are to the right, put they are specifically designed to keep cyclists out of the door zone and out of the lane of auto travel. Think of them more as a guideline to show cyclists and motorists where a bike should be on the road.

    Note: I still see people cycling the wrong way even though the arrows obviously point in the direction of travel. One guy in particular was cycling the wrong way wearing headphones, adn when i told him he should be on the other side he promptly flipped the bird as he forced me into the path of the vehicles behind me.

  16. #16
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,313
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    What are they for? Is it just a few arrows and a picture of a bike?
    They started here in Denver. The idea is to show that bikes can be expected on the road. The original idea was that they would be used without bike lanes and not too close to the curb. It's just a kind of 'heads up' to motorists without segregating cyclists to a lane. I actually like them better than a painted lane. If they are placed correctly (something that doesn't always happen), they say to the drivers
    'expect a cyclist' and the bicyclist that 'here's where you can ride'.

    We call them 'bike in a house'.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  17. #17
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Had no idea they originated in Denver, nice. Feel silly not knowing what they were, y'know, living here and all The sharrows in Santa Fe especially struck me because: a) they were on narrow, one-way 25 MPH roads, and b) they placed it directly in the middle of the street. The ones in Denver that are off from center don't do much for me. Maybe its the house design as opposed to the chevrons used elsewhere.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Business810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    613
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We have sharrows on a few streets here in Pittsburgh. I can't comment all that much on their effectiveness since I rarely ride in that part of town, but at the very least it makes the road a lot wider than it otherwise would be. True bike lanes are almost unheard of here, so every bit helps.
    Jon

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    beantown
    My Bikes
    '89 Specialized Hardrock Fixed Gear Commuter; 1984? Dawes Atlantis
    Posts
    689
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like many things, I think the usage of sharrows needs to coincide with a marketing campaign to get people to understand them. Billboards and public service announcements whether radio or TV need to be used for educating both cyclists and motorists.
    I couldn't figure them out until I read the San Francisco report on them.
    At $300 a pop, I do think that Santa Fe needs to do a better job of advertising the project to get competitive bids.

  20. #20
    livin' the nightmare syn0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    desert
    My Bikes
    '81 Centurion SS coversion, other ****
    Posts
    491
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like the general idea, but $300 each? It's just reflective white paint and a guy to spray it... I think it's a bit pricey considering what it is.

  21. #21
    DNPAIMFB pinkrobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cowtown, AB
    My Bikes
    Titus El Guapo, Misfit diSSent, Cervelo Soloist Carbon, Wabi Lightning, et al.
    Posts
    4,654
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They magically appeared on a few streets near downtown back in August. Unfortunately, the first batch peeled off the road in a day or so ["Glue? What glue?"], but they were replaced fairly quickly. I think they should use the money to put up a big flashing sign [solar powered, of course] that says BIKE ROUTE - ****ING PAY ATTENTION!!! Or words to that effect...
    Proud Member of the HHCMF
    '06 Cervelo Soloist Carbon | '09 Titus El Guapo | '09 Misfit diSSent | '09 Wabi Lightning

  22. #22
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Berkeley
    My Bikes
    2010 Tarmac SL, 2007 Specialized Langster, 2013 Fairdale Weekender, 2013 Fairdale Coaster, 1986 Bridgestone 600, 1972 Schwinn Heavy Duty, 2014 Surley Long Haul Trucker
    Posts
    2,257
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Berkeley has a whole network of these. We call them bicycle boulevards... not sharrows. I ride them everyday. Typcially they set up barriers so it's not even worth a cars' time to drive on them because it ends within a block. But bikes can easily get through the barriers.

    They work great, bikes have the right away, everyone's happy. It's not like they shut down major streets to make these... it's unused residential streets that parallel main streets.

  23. #23
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Are those "some folks" motorists?

    "But but, what are bicycles doing on our streets.... ?"
    No, some of the folks are cyclists:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...protest02.html

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  24. #24
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,313
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by shuttoj View Post
    Had no idea they originated in Denver, nice. Feel silly not knowing what they were, y'know, living here and all The sharrows in Santa Fe especially struck me because: a) they were on narrow, one-way 25 MPH roads, and b) they placed it directly in the middle of the street. The ones in Denver that are off from center don't do much for me. Maybe its the house design as opposed to the chevrons used elsewhere.
    The chevron is new. Most of the ones around Denver were an experiment and the road crews misplaced them because they didn't understand the concept. Once down it's difficult to move them. I've seen them elsewhere where they are right on the curb (even overlapping the gutter pan) and in a narrow bike lane...one that's only 2 feet wide and that includes 12" of gutter pan Those are useless.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  25. #25
    Member shuttoj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    49
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All, thank you for the informative posts and links. I got quite a bit of new information. My new dream is to see chevron-sharrows centered in the middle of the lane. Oh, I'd take pinkrobe's big flashing sign too

    After learning more about how a city typically gets bicycle markers on the roads, my heart goes to dwoloz, sitting on a committee and trying to make things happen with a department thats underfunded and understaffed.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •