teacher

Hi I'm in Vancouver and it's the time of year when on clear mornings, the roads are coated in frost and patches of black ice. I have two friends that have broken their legs after falling in these conditions. I'm interested in continuing my commutes through the winter, but do not want the same fate to fall upon me.
What do y'all do when the roads are slick? Also, are clipless or platform pedals safer when slipping is a concern.
Thanks!

kmac27

Its my first time commuting in the winter so I'm wondering the same. I have to go towards my college campus and on my way I have to go down a pretty steep hill. and going 30 mph and hitting black ice while turing could be deep trouble for me. Anywho I don't think it matters that much unless your going down some hills and just take corners slowly. I've seen studed bike tires but those are probably only good in the snow. As for clipless pedals I'd say its safest to have your feet free on regular pedals than on clipless or clip on pedals.

Juha

Umm... no. The biggest advantage from studded tyres comes definitely on ice or hard packed snow. Studs don't help in deep soft snow, aggressive thread pattern and tyre width is more important there. I ride on roads, so I prefer a narrow studded commuting tyre such as the Nokian W106.

Clipless: this is a matter of preference. I'm sure you can practise unclipping until it becomes a reflex. By then it does not matter much whether you ride clipless or platforms. I ride platforms, but that's mainly because of the cold weather around where I ride. I want to use proper winter boots, about the last thing I need is a pair of heat-conducting metal plates against my feet.

There are various kinds of studded tyres by at least 3-4 manufacturers. Some are meant for commuting, others for off-road trails. See the Winter Cycling forum for more details.

--J

Sianelle 

I have to admit that this is the best snow and ice HPV I've ever seen.

Greenspeed half-track recumbent trike. Sorry, no it's not mine, - a friend sent me the picture because they knew I'm keen on tricycles.

AEO

Studded bike tires are definitely worth it.
Tried it out yesterday myself with front studded and rear dirt knobby tire, huge difference in terms of grip.
Nokian Hakkappilita (sp?) W106 are great tires.

ItsJustMe

Studded tires. The studs are actually only really useful on ice; on snow they're pretty superfluous and knobbies would suffice.
I've ridden the 11 miles to work on days after ice storms where it was almost too slippery to walk, and I certainly would not have driven my car.
My ride is over plowed roads, with 4 miles of them gravel that is packed snow surface (pretty slippery) and hilly most of the winter, so I don't need super aggressive tires. I run Nokian Hakkapeliitta 35s:


I got mine from Peter White Cycles. The website is very enjoyable:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/

Caveat: Be prepared to work for it. The air is thicker and winds stronger in the winter, and studded tires do not roll as easily as what you're probably used to (assuming you're on road tires now).

kjmillig

COOL! I want one of those trikes. I'd put wider tires on the front. Of course around here it'd just be for looks 'cause there ain't no snow.

closetbiker

I'm in Richmond so I'd have to say, no hills are the best help, but after that it's just being careful, going slower, and having a good sense of balance.

I've been commuting for 23 winters and it really has only been bad for me a couple of times. One of the worst was last year on one morning and another was years ago when after getting about half way to work, the road the rest of the way was solid ice. Not just frosty like it's been the last couple of mornings, but ice.

When the low temps are not a surprise, the Muni does a good job in overnight salting of the roads and when I went out yesterday, they were not only salty, but dry. Add in the morning traffic that warms up the road and melts frost when it's on the margins of freezing and there have been very few mornings I've slipped in the number of days it's been frosty.

Just go slow, try not to learn into corners and use your best sense of judgement on whether you have control and the tires aren't slipping out from below your center of gravity. Clipless pedals are designed to disengage if you unexpectly fall, so don't worry about them. I've commuted in the old strap-in cleat days, so if I lost balance the bike came with me. Clipless are a big improvement.

If it's that bad, remember, cars are going to be slipping too so you'll probably going to be looking at damage to your car if you drive it in. If you're in a car and others are losing control, you're probably running just as big a risk for injury by some bozo following too close, going too fast and rear-ending you. I know a lot of people at work who were injured after their cars were rear-ended.

Keep it in mind that if you fall off your bike 99.9% of the time, you're not going to be hurt. Your ego is usually hurt more than your body.

Tomorow we'll be back to the rain.

*I noticed this was written last night. How'd it go this morning?*

banerjek

Frozen fog and black ice are extremely dangerous. I keep telling myself that I'm going to quit riding in it, but then I go out anyway. I ride much more slowly and carefully, and I ride lower tire pressures. Avoid all but the most gentle acceleration, braking, and turning. Black ice is especially bad because you can be going just fine and then WHAM!

I only ride clipless. My experience is that if you go down, the impact tends to roll from your hip up to your shoulder -- a desirable outcome that reduces the likelihood of injury in my opinion.

I think that being on more than 2 wheels is not a bad idea when there is black ice. It's hard to fight the temptation to ride, but I think it's probably the smart thing to do.

martianone

+1 to the above comments;
Nokian W106 tires are probably just about the best balance between grip in variable
conditions and performance. Also prefer platform pedals to allow various winter type
of footwear- I like LLBean snow sneakers best for cold weather riding.

2manybikes

A mtb with fat studded tires and low air pressure will go over any kind of ice you can find with no trouble. It's like riding on pavement if the ice is flat and nice and hard (cold). NO big deal. I search out all the ice I can find, it's great riding on lakes and frozen swamps. The harder and flater the ice the better grip with studs.

Black ice is no problem at all.

Keep the bike straight upright as you turn.

Not much is more slippery than hard frozen ice with a litttle powder snow on it. It's easy with studded tires.

eastvanbike

I live in Vancouver too and I wiped out on Tuesday morning! Less than a block from my apartment I made a slow turn onto the next street. Next thing I know I fall to my right side and I hear a loud crack! It was the sound of my helmet hitting the road. I slipped on some leaves and with the icy roads I went under. It was that fast! I'm glad I had my helmet on or I would have one big headache. I wasn't going fast at all. Be careful out there and watch for leaves.

closetbiker

I think I only fell once from ice.

It was in a corner where an accumulation of water had built up and froze over night. I broke a rear derailer. Worse was it was on a corner with a bus stop of people watching.

I fell once in a corner from slipping on wet pavement markings and once on a man hole cover on a corner, both times from leaning over too much.

One time I was coming home in the snow and braked too hard, too fast and fell. Tore my tights.

Flat roads help a lot. Caution, control, anticipation and body control do too. It's a skill to stay up on ice.

I found the roads around Richmond to be not bad at all this week. I didn't see anything on the news about Vancouver being any worse. I'm sure in spots, it could have been. I'm out early tomorrow so maybe I'll see if the upcoming rain is going to make a difference.

DoB

Just get some studded tires and ride on em' whenever it might be icy. They grip fine and make the ride safe.

Some people screw around with all kinds of tires, or they roll the dice and ride in snow or iffy ice conditions without studded tires. To me it is just not worth the risk.

One good fall and a broken arm, leg or hip just is not worth screwing around with. Get some tires that will keep the bike under you and use them whenever conditions are possibly dicey.

As Jessie Ventura said in Predator...."I ain't got time to bleed!"

zippered

what, like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrCHTxqUm60

(i'm in the first frame with a blue jacket and blue helmet...)

Jarery

Im in Vancouver. Last year I went down on black ice, broke my hip, and slid across 2 lanes of Lougheed Highway with cars honking as they swerved around me at 6:30 am.

I've cycled in (hour commute) all week but on thursday had my back wheel slide out trying to slow down going down a hill. Friday I drove in. I'll continue to drive while black ice is still a threat.

Platforms would be better, but in all honesty, when I wiped out on black ice, I went from full control to on the ground and sliding so fast i still had both hands on the bars and both feet clipped in. I didn't even have time to let go.

bac

+1 on studs

+1,000 on the Nokians



... Brad

spinninwheels

Lots of great points. As someone who is carfree, I cycle no matter what. Many people already mentioned slowing down and no sudden movements. This can be stated enough.

A couple other points that I'm going to mention that I think are relevent:

1) As a rule I don't take bike routes in the morning because there isn't a lot of traffic anyway (5:30am). I'll stick to busier roads with more traffic, simply because there is little frost left on them (usually). Bike routes usually have less traffic, thus more frost still sitting on the pavement. Also, there are usually many round-abouts, which involve lots of turning, leaning as well as possible stopping. That's just a recipe for going down, if you ask me. I avoid bike routes in these instances. But this just might be my experience with Vancouver's bike routes.

2) In dodgey road conditions, I'll usually take more space on the road, because I don't want drivers passing too close to me. As an example I will usually ride in the right tire path, especially when we have snow.

3) If possible, take alternate routes. I live at 16th and Dunbar (read - big downhill). When conditions are slick/frosty, which is always around +2 to -2, I'll go straight down 16th (heading east); otherwise, I usualy always go down Alma. This morning I forgot (until after I made the turn) and I went down Alma, at probably the slowest I've ever gone down that hill. Needless to say I was a little nervous in the corners.

4) Be careful going over bridges. Frost can exist, with a wider temperature window, due to air circulation under them.

I use clipless and this doesn't factor into the equation at all for me. Oh, and I normally run 700x28's. But I will switch to my 700x35's if we get any snow that sticks.

diesel_dad

I live in Victoria, which is the Schwalbe North American headquarters. They have just come out with a new winter tire that looks ideal for black ice, frozen bridges etc. It's called the Marathon Winter. Here is a picture of the tread:


Here is a link to the write-up:
https://www.schwalbe.de/gbl/en/homepa...f55a26c5f00189

They look ideal for occasional ice. I commute on Schwalbe Marathon Plus and Marathon Supreme today and am very happy.

The bad news is $70/tire and a total North American inventory of 70 pairs (well, 69 now I guess).

macteacher

Nice tire...but i've always wondered. What happens when you hit clear pavement? Can you still ride this thing, or is it going to be all bumpy? Any side-effects from using it on dry pavement? Or do you basically have to decide the night before which tires you'll need and do a swap?

diesel_dad

According to Schwalbe, at 70 PSI the studs will not be noticeable. But if it gets icy, air down to 30 psi and you are good to go. Will let you know how the theory holds.

ItsJustMe

No problems. I ride most of the winter mostly on dry pavement on studs. It's just a little noisy. It's a bit rough but less than you would get from riding knobbies.

If you have steel studs instead of carbide studs, they'd get worn down pretty quickly riding on dry pavement. I've had carbide (Nokians) for 3 years now, and though I've lost a few studs, the wear on the remaining ones isn't bad at all.

I put my studs on late November (I'll be putting them on today actually, after we get done putting the Christmas tree up) and take them off when I think we're done with ice, usually about late March here. I put about 1800 miles a year on them.

closetbiker

anyone here notice a difference between frosty roads and icy roads?

diesel_dad

Ice is worse than frost.

macteacher

Well, I have my mountain bike that I ride....bran new FSR XC COMP, it's a great bike, but i'm weary of driving it in the salt.

I have an old steel bike that just got tuned up (as much as was able to). I'm thinking to price out some stud tires and ride it on the harsher days and on clear roads, i can ride my main bike. (until of course I can get a commuter bike)