Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    crash survivor tate65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Irving, TX
    My Bikes
    C-dale rush, Mountain cycle fury, Monocog 29er, Haro hard tail VX, Scattante R330
    Posts
    654
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    IA closing county roads to cyclist

    Or at least saying “county roads are not designed or maintained to meet specific standards related to bicycle travel.” There for they are not liable for issues pertaining to cycles on those roads

    http://www.muscatinejournal.com/arti...4190473578.txt

  2. #2
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    4,645
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What did cyclists think was going to happen when lawsuits were filed against the county?

  3. #3
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ky. and FL.
    My Bikes
    KHS steel SS
    Posts
    3,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Need to get rid of those county supervisors. Hound them to the gates of hell, until the resign, or can be replaced. Be at every public event. Be at every meeting. Talk to people. Get the motorcyclists involved. If roads aren't designed for bikes, they're not designed for motos either.
    Not too much to say here

  4. #4
    Senior Member Itsjustb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Durham, NC
    My Bikes
    Specialized HR Comp, Scattante XRL
    Posts
    990
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm of two minds on this. I agree with JeffS, this seems like a reasonable response to a multi-million-dollar lawsuit. At the same time, it seems strange that a governmental body can just absolve itself of responsibility for the condition of their roads. If THEY'RE not responsible for ensuring the roads meet certain minimum specifications, who is?

    Could they then construct a new road that was only paved 7 feet wide (or 5 feet, or any other number)and still say it was a valid road for vehicular traffic?
    "Everyone is entitled to an opinion" is only half-right.

    Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion.

  5. #5
    bac
    bac is offline
    Senior Member bac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Too many to list!
    Posts
    7,487
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    If roads aren't designed for bikes, they're not designed for motos either.
    VERY, VERY good point!

    ... Brad

  6. #6
    ROM 6:23 flipped4bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
    Posts
    1,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So that would mean that any vehicle class higher than a bicycle would be disqualified too?
    Every time we let a vehicle pass there is a little bit of compromise. But compromise allows the city to function and allows cyclists to function in the city. The trick is not to eliminate compromise but to learn how to work safely within it.

    --Robert Hurst

  7. #7
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
    Posts
    8,522
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They are trying to stop frivolous lawsuits from scam artists. I could see a group of Irish Travelers getting on bike, falling, then suing the county or state. (South Carolina owns and maintains all paved roads)
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    N. California
    Posts
    1,410
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tate65 View Post
    Or at least saying “county roads are not designed or maintained to meet specific standards related to bicycle travel.” There for they are not liable for issues pertaining to cycles on those roads

    http://www.muscatinejournal.com/arti...4190473578.txt

    I don't think this is a reasonable response. The reasonable response is to upgrade the roads to meet standards so that all legal vehicles can safely operate on them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Leeds UK
    Posts
    1,915
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IRC, the city of Chicago has taken this stance and won

  10. #10
    Violin guitar mandolin
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Friendsville, TN, USA
    My Bikes
    Wilier Thor, Fuji Professional, LeMond Wayzata
    Posts
    1,171
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do "specific standards related to bicycle travel" exist in IA? If not, then wouldn't the typical law making cycles vehicles subject to the same laws as other vehicles apply? I can drive my car on substandard roads and nobody objects. I strongly suspect many of the roads I ride on wouldn't meet some standard or other!

    I can't see how a resolution would keep legitimate traffic off the road. Maybe I'm just missing the point.

  11. #11
    Senior Member fholt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NC
    My Bikes
    2006 Novara Randonee, 2009 Fuji Cross Pro, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Pro, 2013 Allez Smartweld A5 Frankenbike
    Posts
    237
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    MMMMMM - did y'all get that "eat MAID-RITE" ad on the page, the one that says "you'll need a spoon" to get up all the loose meat? Yoo boy - nothing says Iowa like a loose meat sammie....
    -------------------------------
    '06 Novara Randonee
    '09 Fuji Cross Pro
    '13 Specialized Roubaix Pro
    '13 Specialized Allez Smartweld Frankenbike

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Reston, VA
    My Bikes
    2003 Giant OCR2
    Posts
    2,369
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Smokester View Post
    I don't think this is a reasonable response. The reasonable response is to upgrade the roads to meet standards so that all legal vehicles can safely operate on them.
    Well, in the real world I can tell you exactly what the response to that will be. If you point to the roads and say "this road will cost $5M to upgrade such that bicycles can safely operate. It's fine now for cars, but I demand it be upgraded such that all legal vehicles can use it!" Guess what? They'll just make it illegal to use a bike on that road. In many areas, cyclists have to fight hard enough to stay on the roads that exist, it's not going to work if people then go around and start making demands for upgraded conditions in areas where cyclists are particularly rare. Remember, we're a minority, if sometimes a vocal one; we're not negotiating from a position of strength.

    To me, the response by the state is reasonable if they were recently sued and if the roads are sufficient for the 99% of traffic that is motorized (I expect, since we're talking about Iowa). I think the reasonable response as a cyclist is to familiarize yourself with the roads you use and not go faster than conditions allow. And if some idiot driver does something stupid, don't blame the government.

  13. #13
    Urban Biker jimmuter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Durham, NC
    My Bikes
    Trek 720 hybrid; 2007 Specialized Tricross Comp
    Posts
    731
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't get it. Someone died on the RAGBRAI ride and sued the County? I don't know about RAGBRAI, but don't you need to sign a waiver or something acknowledging that you understand that riding on roads can be dangerous blah blah blah? I'd be interested in seeing what the justification was for adding the County to this lawsuit. Is the County somehow liable if there are car accidents on that road? What about motorcycle accidents? The County should have never been involved in this in the first place.

  14. #14
    Senior Member one_beatnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SW Iowa
    My Bikes
    Waterford 1200, Raleigh Record converted to a single speed.
    Posts
    560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You all need to research the whole thing here. This was because of a family suing Crawford county over the husband's death on RAGBRAI. The lawsuit was not decided because the county settled out of court at the request of the county's insurance company. Of 99 counties in Iowa, 48 are insured by this company. The counties are now trying to push the state into passing a law protecting them from this sort of thing. (My own county just passed a resolution asking the state to do that) Most of it is knee jerk reaction. It's much like the Mcdonald's hot coffee suit. If this had gone to actual court, it may have been a different story...maybe.
    The road the guy died on was not that bad. There is/was a seam in the middle between the lanes that the guy caught his tire in going 45 mph! Perhaps the county should have ticketed him for not riding responsibly. He wasn't in any lane! (I'm not serious about that so don't flame me, but it does open up some interesting possibilities.) With time this may blow over, but in today's lawsuit happy world, who knows.

  15. #15
    Urban Biker jimmuter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Durham, NC
    My Bikes
    Trek 720 hybrid; 2007 Specialized Tricross Comp
    Posts
    731
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by one_beatnik View Post
    You all need to research the whole thing here. This was because of a family suing Crawford county over the husband's death on RAGBRAI. The lawsuit was not decided because the county settled out of court at the request of the county's insurance company. Of 99 counties in Iowa, 48 are insured by this company. The counties are now trying to push the state into passing a law protecting them from this sort of thing. (My own county just passed a resolution asking the state to do that) Most of it is knee jerk reaction. It's much like the Mcdonald's hot coffee suit. If this had gone to actual court, it may have been a different story...maybe.
    The road the guy died on was not that bad. There is/was a seam in the middle between the lanes that the guy caught his tire in going 45 mph! Perhaps the county should have ticketed him for not riding responsibly. He wasn't in any lane! (I'm not serious about that so don't flame me, but it does open up some interesting possibilities.) With time this may blow over, but in today's lawsuit happy world, who knows.
    Thanks, I knew there had to be more to the story, but I still don't understand why the County is responsible for the untimely demise of someone riding 45 MPH on the center line. I think it's common for the insurance company to want to settle, but I think the County would've made out fine in court.

  16. #16
    Thread Killer evblazer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Marfan Syndrome-Clyde-DFW, TX
    My Bikes
    Fuji Touring Xtracycle, Merlin Road, Bacchetta Giro 26 (Sold), Challenge Hurricane, Cruzbike Sofrider
    Posts
    1,844
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    If roads aren't designed for bikes, they're not designed for motos either.
    I'd like to agree with that except I really don't think it is true. If a county wanted to I'm sure they could make their roads nearly impassable by bicycle but not hinder motorcycles or cars much if any. Hey ride down a chip and seal road and you can see that expiriment in progress

    This winter is being pretty harsh on the roads in my commute. Alot of the expansion joints are completely opening and from one road section to the next and verticle gaps of one inch or more are appearing. Last week I almost fell right into what the weather had done to where they added in a sewer drain. The gaps was over 2 inches wide in my direction of travel where prior to that the two pieces of concrete were snug right up to eachother. And no I wasn't riding in the gutter they replaced a partial section of concrete to put it in so it's about 3-4' in the lane.
    For a car or motorcycle they can ride over all that without noticing or just feeling a little bump however they could be pretty dangerous for a bicycle to hit at speed.

  17. #17
    ROM 6:23 flipped4bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Coastal Maine
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
    Posts
    1,713
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmuter View Post
    Thanks, I knew there had to be more to the story, but I still don't understand why the County is responsible for the untimely demise of someone riding 45 MPH on the center line. I think it's common for the insurance company to want to settle, but I think the County would've made out fine in court.
    That would be common sense. And in my world there's no such thing as lawyers...
    Every time we let a vehicle pass there is a little bit of compromise. But compromise allows the city to function and allows cyclists to function in the city. The trick is not to eliminate compromise but to learn how to work safely within it.

    --Robert Hurst

  18. #18
    Senior Member one_beatnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SW Iowa
    My Bikes
    Waterford 1200, Raleigh Record converted to a single speed.
    Posts
    560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Signing the waiver only waived RAGBRAI. That's why she sued the county. She couldn't sue RAGBRAI...she tried at first.

  19. #19
    Senior Member one_beatnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SW Iowa
    My Bikes
    Waterford 1200, Raleigh Record converted to a single speed.
    Posts
    560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  20. #20
    Can't ride enough! Da Tinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    south Louisiana
    My Bikes
    Fuji finest, Bianchi FG conversion
    Posts
    1,234
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would challenge this on constitutional grounds as restriction on the right of free travel.
    Happiness begins with facing life with a smile & a wink.

  21. #21
    yes
    yes is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    675
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IIRC, one of the reasons for the suit is that lots of riders went down. The authorities (police or some other gov employee) went to the area and was warning cyclists for a while. Then, the authorities left, without putting up any cones, and the guy died.
    I'm not saying the county should pay, but I think that was how the lawyers were justifying negligence. It has more to do with walking away from a known problem than some unknown cracks in roads.

  22. #22
    Senior Member one_beatnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SW Iowa
    My Bikes
    Waterford 1200, Raleigh Record converted to a single speed.
    Posts
    560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We were stopped in the town before this for a couple of hours and were told over loud speakers several times to be careful of the coming road.

  23. #23
    Senior Member one_beatnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    SW Iowa
    My Bikes
    Waterford 1200, Raleigh Record converted to a single speed.
    Posts
    560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would challenge this on constitutional grounds as restriction on the right of free travel.
    They're not trying to stop all bikes, just the organization of RAGBRAI.

  24. #24
    Urban Biker jimmuter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Durham, NC
    My Bikes
    Trek 720 hybrid; 2007 Specialized Tricross Comp
    Posts
    731
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Da Tinker View Post
    I would challenge this on constitutional grounds as restriction on the right of free travel.
    I'm no constitutional scholar, but doesn't that have more to do with having the right to generally travel and cross state lines? I don't think it has anything to do with your chosen mode of travel or transportation.

  25. #25
    Peddler Seamless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Road Warrior 800 & H400
    Posts
    337
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by atbman
    IRC, the city of Chicago has taken this stance and won
    Illinois' Supreme Court a few years ago held that IL public highways generally are not intended/designed/constructed/maintained for bicycle riding, and therefore public entities are not liable for injuries caused by defective roads where a bike rider is concerned, on the theory that there is no general expectation that a bicycle rider is an intended user of the road.

    The rationale is ludicrous, but fiscally understandable considering most of IL state roads are in rural areas and longstanding statutes affording public entities immunity from all sorts of hazards.

    OTOH, IL courts have also held that an auto driver is not a reasonably anticipated user of a city street when s/he gets out of the car and does not walk the most direct route from the side of the street the auto is parked on to the nearest same-side adjacent public walkway. The courts hold pedestrians to the same standard when a crosswalk (not required to be marked) is available (even if a block away: you can't just cross to the other side of the street, you've got to walk on the wrong side to the corner or marked crosswalk before crossing).

    The city of Chicago has moderated the extreme position they could hold under state law by creating and maintaining signed bike lanes and routes (so obviously those routes are intended to be used by bike riders), to the point that in some areas use of bike lanes and routes are mandatory. Of course the problem then becomes how do you convince the administration, and the city council, to pay for damages (the city even insists its corporate counsel and the city council have to approve court judgments and pay out of budgeted accounts).
    `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
    2005 Cannondale Road Warrior 800

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •