Western

Hello. I've test ridden a few Kona's recently (PhD/Dr Dew and Jake the Snake) at a bike shop here in London UK and really like them but was looking for feedback on the best choice for my need - primarily commuting. I have a 10-12 mile commute each way over some crappy (potholes, heavy traffic, start/stop) London roads and the Thames tow path (gravel/dirt, mud when wet). Also bike on weekends on off-road trails in the parks pulling a kid trailer. I've read in these forums that the JTS is not really built for commuting but can take fenders and a rack. I prefer the different hand positions available on JTS drops while still being able to brake from up-right position (has bar levers). I'm sure there are lots of other similar options from other makers which I'm happy to consider but would need to ride first. Not interested in a super aero position of a race bike - but do like the ability to find different positions on drops. I'm currently riding an old Cannondale mountain bike that i've fitted with road slicks, fenders and rack. It's not terrible but it's 12 years old and I'm ready for something a bit quicker, better gearing, and more comfortable. I'm 6'3" 165lbs and the Cdale has me leaning way over the front as the handlebars are quite low and seat is high. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also considering the Surly Cross Check but have not found one here in London to ride. Will likely be going back to US in a few weeks and will purchase bike and bring back. Bikes are 30-50% more expensive here...

bsyptak

martianone

IMO, what fits and feels better to the rider is more of an issue than what type of bike.
That said-I have a CrossCheck set up as a 1x9 as my winter/bad road/messy weather bike.
It is quite comfortable to ride, can accommodate fairly large tires/fenders needed for serious
commuting, is pretty rugged and is very versatile. I got it a couple years ago, just to ride during
the winter- turns out to be the bike I ride the most often other times of the year.

Jonahhobbes

I'm in a same boat to you same distance and same conditions pretty much, I'm finally retiring the hardtail MTB and I am, (hopefully although not paid for it yet), going for a Cross bike the Salsa La Cruz, (this can't take a rack though). If you are willing to hang on for a bit I'll tell you what the transition is like from a MTB to a Cross.

knobster

Like others have said, a cross bike is a good choice for this length of commute. If it was shorter, like say 3 miles, I would go with a hybrid.

M_S

I would pick a touring bike, though 'cross would be my second choice for a dedicated commuter.

Reasons:

Hybrids don't have the extra hand positions. While I've ridden long distances on them, I much prefer some drivative of drop bars. Were I to go hybrid, though, I would not choose the phd, which has caliper brakes and won't be able to take very wide tires, most likely.

Cyclocross bikes are not road race bkes, but they are still race bikes, and make compromises for racing that you may not appreciate as a commuter. For example, lack of front rack or fender mounts. The Jake the Snake does have them in the rear though.

A touring bike will have drops bars, similar components to a 'cross bike, and a ton of provsions for racks and fenders. You don't need to use them all, but they're there if you want them. It will weigh a couple to a few more than the 'cross bike, but commuting for most people isn't the time to count grams.

markhr

Hi

You can get most of these in the UK for less than GBP1000. Try Condor Cycles and Wiggle first. Do NOT go near evans.

If you do buy in the States good luck getting it back and I hope you don't get stung with vat and excise duty.

700c, drop bar, disc brake bikes that could be used for racing, training, commuting, touring, cyclocross, etc.

trek portland - https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...land/portland/

cannondale cross xr7 - https://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/c...del-8XR7C.html

Brodie Ronin '08 - https://www.brodiebikes.com/2008/2008_bikes/ronin.php
Brodie romax '07 - https://www.brodiebikes.com/2007/2007_bikes/romax.php
brodie ronin '07 - https://www.brodiebikes.com/2007/2007_bikes/ronin.php

lemond poprad disc - https://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/cross/poprad_disc.php

rocky mountain sherpa - https://www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/TOURING/sherpa-10.aspx

kona sutra - https://www.konaworld.com/08_sutra_w.htm

orbea diem drop disc - https://www.orbea.com/ingles/interior...ilia=6&gama=13

focus cross disc - https://www.focusbikesuk.com/focuscyc...cross_disc.php

devinci caribou2 - https://www.devinci.com/10479_an.html

raleighusa sojourn - https://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=5&itemid=427

rei novara element - https://www.rei.com/product/744808

co-motion mazama - https://www.co-motion.com/mazama.html

rocky mountain Solo CXD - https://bikes.com/2008_preview/2008_preview.html

rotwild rs1cx - https://www.rotwild.de/en/ (street bikes section)

fixie inc. pureblood - https://www.cycles-for-heroes.com/200...pureblood.html

maxx roadmaxx custom (you choose the color and parts at the LBS and the factory puts it together, i.e., not a custom frame) - https://www.maxx.de/frmain_bikes.htm (road - roadmaxx custom)

Salsa la Cruz - https://www.salsacycles.com/laCruzComp08.html

BarracksSi

That list ^^^^

I'm planning to buy a used Schwinn DBX locally that was sold as a do-it-all bike. Basically, it's a cyclocross bike with a compact crank, Avid BB7 road discs, fender & rack mounts, drop bars, etc. It's just the right blend between my Bad Boy Disc and CAAD8 that I've felt would make a great do-it-all bike.

Prior to getting my first road bike, I would've voted for a hybrid. I've since found that I prefer drop bars any time that I'm not on a rough dirt trail (which is almost all the time now).

BCRider

Keep in mind that a cyclocross or other frame doesn't need to be built as a race bike. I've seen Soma Double Cross frames set up with racks, fenders and all sorts of odd handlebars from road racing drop bars to moustache bars to trekking bars to one with cruising bars.

The Cross Check and the Double Cross share one thing with touring bikes. Full rack brazeons and the ability to fit almost any tire within reason.

The point is that the frame doesn't set the style that you must set up the bike for. You do. Even a skinny road racing bike can be set up as a crazy fast hybrid. It just has some limitations that restrict how crazy it can be.

bjornb

I borrowed a JTS this winter from my father for a daily commute of about 12km round trip and I like the bike a lot. The bike is certainly a quality machine and the components are very nice, especially the integrated brake lever gear shifters. I rode it all winter through some atrocious weather here in Vancouver (rain rain rain snow ice sleet rain etc...) and didn't once wish I was on another bike -- just living somewhere else. I rarely ride the drops unless the wind is being evil but love the bullhorns and find it such a nice position to ride from. The bike does have eyelets for fenders but I actually couldn't find any that fit, and just went without which was fine with full rain gear. My commute is quite short, only 25 mins each way or so, but I could easily see riding it much further distances without a problem.

adrien

I use a JTS for the commute, but I only commute 1-2 days a week on it as it's a long ride (40 miles return) and I'm only in the office a couple of days a week.

I never bothered with a rack or fenders as I have a nice backpack which does the trick. THe bike feels fast, tough and pretty much up for anything in terms of conditions (I ride it on hand-built wheels with 28 slicks for the commute). 3500 miles on it so far from the commute, weekend rides and the occasional century and I've has zero issues. I'm bigger than you (6'3 and change, 230) and this thing has been a dream.

I'd highly recommend kool stop salmons if you ride it in the rain.

If I were riding those distances, I'd happily commute on it every day. The only thing I'd ask myself is how much weight I'd carry. I find mine is fine with the day's clothes and my mini-laptop in the pack.

Thier sizing is a little odd -- they run big. For example, cross-shopped against a Bianchi Volpe, a 58 JTS will be roughly the same size as a 60 volpe. FWIW, I ride a 58. I got my Dad a Jake recently and got a 60 (he's bigger than me). I rode it yesterday -- if anyhting, it's a little too biog for me and if it were mine I'd end up shortening the stem.

I dad's Jake (not the JTS) in the rain yesterday on a canal tow path -- it did just fine. The only thing I'm not sure of (I've never tried) is towing a child. I do it all the time with my MTB, and it really throws off the balance of the bike.

Let us know where you end up. I love my JTS and would happily buy another (and for Aluminum it's actually really comfortable)

MichaelW

As stated above, competition race CX bikes are stipped down and lack threaded eyelets. Many cx bikes are more multipurpose and come with rack and mudguard threads; this is the style you need. For all-weather commuting I would look for a disc brake, at least in the front.
Dont forget you can buy a commuting bike in the UK from your pre-tax salary if your employer is in a suitable scheme.

BCRider

Ditto on the disc brakes if your area has a lot of sloppy weather like bjornb and I had to deal with this winter.

Oddly enough if you only fit one disc brake there's a choice to be made. Putting it on the front would certainly be the choice for performance but it's the back wheel that sees all the mud tossed up by the passing of the front and I've often thought that a rim on the front and a disc on the back would provide the least amount of rim grinding if you could only afford one disc for some odd reason.... but that's purely an aesthetic reason...

Western

That would be helpful as I'm concerned about the switch to drop bars and whether it will make me too unstable and bent over in traffic.

Western

Thanks all for the good advice. I hadn't considered the disc brake option but will now. I will also go ride some touring bikes. I had not included these in my search as I didn't know they could accomodate wider tires like a cross bike and there's still a part of me that thinks I would trail ride some times although that hasn't happened since I moved to London late last year. You've also expanded my thinking on the type of bars I use. I think I may opt for one of those bars that aren't full drops but allow multiple hand positions and take brifters.

BarracksSi

Most riders, most of the time, ride on the top parts of drop bars, whether on the bent-forward parts (usually holding onto the brifters as well) or on the horizontal flats (made more practical in-town with cyclocross brake levers). That way, they're necessarily not bent over any more than with flat bars, and they still have the option of riding deeper in the drops when it gets windy.

crhilton

I'd say cross, but I love drop bars.

digler

Hi

I faced this decision myself and eventually, after much reading of this forum, went with a 2008 JTS. Funny thing is another guy from my work bought one with me as he left it up to me to do the research. So now I'm going to give you 2 guys feedback on commuting in hilly Sydney over 6 months on a JTS. I should point out we both came from GT MTB's which we were using to commute.

>> The first thing we both noticed was how hard the bike was to climb hills. At first we put it down to getting used to the bike but we now know that the 36T inner front ring is too high for hilly commuting. A 34T is on the way for both of us.

>> Tyres. Again after reading this forum and how fat tyres are a must on the commute I went with 32 Maxxis Columbiere's and he went with 32 Shwalbe marathon plus's. I started getting flats every week and eventually fitted tuffy tyre liners. This stopped the flats but I started looking for new tyres as I didn't like the thought of running liners. More phsycological than anything else. Anyway again the advice on this forum pointed me to schwalbe marathon supremes 35mm. These are the newest marathons with superb puncture resistance and not as heavy as the plus's. I bought them (very $$$$) and used them twice! The bike which was hard to climb hills was now impossible to climb hills. I felt like I was riding through honey. So heavy. I only ever used the first 3 gears on the rear cassette on my commute and I'm not weak as I've been commuting for over a yr and I'm 6'2". Another friend from work who commutes on a carbon race bike thought this hilarious and said I read too many forums. He lent me a set of vitoria 23 tyres to try out and my face as I arrived at work on the first commute said it all. All smiles. The JTS simply flies with 23's and even with my 200+lb weight is seriously comfortable. I don't want to get into a thin v fat tyre rant here but please take this advice from me - take peoples advice on tyres with a pinch of salt. Try different tyres for yourself. I did and now have a set of 25 gatorskins on the way. This suits my weight, commute, and bike very well. Oh - this isn't just me either. My mate who bought the other JTS with the 32 schwalbe plus's tried the 23 tyres out also (on his commute) and guess what - he's got gatorskins on the same order. He only weighs in at 170 to 180. A moment of clarity I'd say.

>> brakes - This is the weak point of the JTS for sure. The front brake is so bad to be dangerous. I know Sheldon Brown etc say adjustment is key to setting up these style brakes but after 6 months of commuting I'm ready to burn them and the front fork. If you get the adjustment wrong you will experience the deadly shudder. It's not just mild either it's so bad as to make you lose control. I bought a set of koolstop (so did the other guy - i should say whatever I do he does as we experience the same 'issues') mtb pads and they are much stronger than the originals. This doesn't fix the underlying issue but it does give you better stopping power. To fix the shudder you must toe the front pads in quite severely with the koolstops. Not ideal but it works. we're both thinking of getting a disc compatible fork when these pads run through and putting a BB7 disc up front. Perfect solution to the JTS brakes! Oh - There is another JTS owner who works near me who I've bumped into on my commute. We've stopped and chatted a couple of times. He has experienced the same brake trouble and he had the LBS fit Campag' mini V's which look great. It doesn't fix the shudder of death but it does help the whole braking situation. This is something you really want to sort out before buying a JTS. It's so common. Front disc is the way to go from our experiences.

>> handlebars. I changed mine as I am a big guy and I put 46cm ones on myself. This isn't an issue with the JTS just my personal pref'. During this process I ditched the top mounted brake levers and put inline barel adjusters in their place.

Ok. I hope this helps you out. It's not gloom and doom as the bike itself is fantastic. It's strong, tough and zips along with the best of them. I pass roadies all the time. I just wanted to point out the experiences we've had and they are to do with gearing for hilly Sydney and braking. Really the only issue the JTS has is brakes. The rest is setup for our particular commute. Lower gears and the right tyre choice fixed (is fixing) this. We're both really happy with the bikes now we've finally got them setup correctly. Get the brakes sorted and pick the correct tyres (I keep on about this but I tried 32's, 35's, 23's before seeinng the light) and you will have an awesome commute bike. Tough as nails and fast as !!!!!

Cheers

JTS commuters Sydney

Western

Thanks for the good feedback. I'm skinnier tires than those on my MTB now and not having any problems except they don't have any tread and are slick on the tow path when it's wet. I will stay thin but get something with a pattern with the new ride.
BTW, I was on Kona's forum and there were several posts about the front fork shudder on the JTS. The Kona tech thought this was due to mix of the carbon fork and the brake and basically said it's designed to be a racing cross bike and not for every day commuting.

bjornb

Yeah the brakes do shudder a lot if not set right, I just visited my LBS to fix a broken spoke and they tuned them in to perfection and they work very well now.

Jonahhobbes

My second ride in on the Salsa will follow up with a report soon, drop bars, riding position etc...

Jonahhobbes

OK 101ish km after 3 rides to and from work on the Cross bike the mighty fine Salsa La Cruz. Switching from years of MTB hardtail use to a Cross bike.

Handling: Nippy and A LOT more responsive, i.e. you can move around potholes more easily. Hitting a curb is more noticeable without a front sus fork but nowhere near as epic as I thought it would be. Also grass and crappy roads are actually not that of a problem. Dunno want a true road bike would feel like though but cross bikes are a lot more grunty and tough than I thought they would be.

Physical: First day and a half had a small pain lower right side of back, but that has gone after day 2, (may also have been me slinging on those awful wellgo pedals that I I put on and was clipped into and fell over on like a newb - took them off the first night and switched to my Crankbros Candy Sl which are a million times better, anyhow I'm getting off the point. Although I picked up a few aches and pains from the fall).

Noticed you seem to use different muscles in the forearms, aches around the sides of the forearms but that has since passed after day 2.

Noticed I am nowhere near as tired on getting home - even though I'm raising a good sweat. But I've also dumped a serious weight from my home made light which is still zip tied to the old bike, so that has made a difference.

THE BARS: OK they were freaky at first and are still pretty freaky compared to the huge expanse of a mountain bike handlebar. It makes standing up on the peddles and climbing really interesting as your arms are sort of constricted to such a short area and cornering very tight turns a little scary, especially with the bigger wheels. The drop bars are weird although more comfortable than I would have imagined, I use the drop bars on the couple of long straights on my commute but have to figure out what to do with my helmet mirror as my mirror view in the drops is obscured. First ride in I thought I'll never get used to these handlebars and wanted to change but strangely I'm getting used to them as you actually have several good hand positions on them.

You have to keep in your mind the old advice that "The bike goes where you are looking" which helps with the Huge wheels you get on a Cross bike.

Gears: getting used to them slowly 2 rings , even though the triple granny ring was hardly ever used on the old MTB ever it was nice knowing it was there

Speed: I've worked it out I average around 4km faster, even though I'm currently riding cautiously and getting used to the gears. Its fast as hell compared to MTB even with the knobby cross tires that I've not had the time to take off yet and replace with the Ultra Gators yet. Zippy Zippy Zip Zip.

Wind: It is so much easier when facing a head wind.



Would I recommend a change to a Cross? YES it is such a lovely ride, I feel safe on this bike which was one of the major concerns of switching after 8 years or more of riding hardtails. If you ride bikes a lot its not such a major leap. The Salsa's paint job is AMAZING also!

markhr

Sounds fun

JustBrowsing

Try putting your hands on the bottom part of the drops when standing up and doing a big climb. I've found it makes it a lot easier. And it's not like you'll need to be reaching for the brakes anyways.

riderintransit

Thanks for the review of the La Cruz. I don't think my bank account will be too happy, though. I've been thinking about switching out my hardtail for a new commuter, and this bike has been high on my list. Time to price it out in CAD...