Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC, NY
Bikes: 2004 Rivendell Atlantis, 2004 Thorn eXp, 2004 Bob Brown Cycles Custom
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Originally Posted by froze
I also think it's a tad better than the Thorn eXp only because you can get 4 water bottle bosses on the Sakkit 26. The Sakkit is also lug constructed which has been proven to be better at carrying heavy loads then fillet braze or tig welded frames; they also use redundant lighting and shifting systems-why? in case you have a problem in the middle of nowhere!
So the Sakkit would be an overkill for short tours, but for long tours this is really the only bike to have.
I would disagree. According to a few people I've spoken with about hardcore touring frames lugs aren't the choice they appear to be. Essentially what I've been told was that the basic idea of a lug can and does cause a certain amount of flex or shimmy under extreme load as you're dealing with the premise that a tube is inserted into a sheath(the lug)and then welded whereas a lugless frame that is built up with proper tubing and welds would inherently not have that area(in the lug)that could contribute to shimmy under load.
Granted we're talking about a situation that has many variables and in it's most extreme would be more than likely minimal but that said, there is more of a chance of shimmy with a lugged frame than with an equal build lugless frame. Basically, it's one less area for movement(e.g. flex/shimmy)when fully loaded under riding load.
Concerning classic designs... there is no doubt that lugged frames not only do their job in function as well as cosmetically... simply put, they look great but in talking about extreme situations-and that's what hardcore tourers are built for-there is a very real point to be addressed about lugs when it comes to shimmy.
The Vanilla is definately not built up as a hardcore tourer(however they are beautiful, no doubt)... even Sacha admits this-however when I spoke to him he certainly is interested in exploring those areas of production at some point.
One more thing concerning frames for hardcore touring where it's all about weight and support... I'll give specifics about my situation to illustrate this-
I am just under 400lbs currently and even though my goal weight is around 230-240lbs ultimately I will be touring starting at my current weight with appx. 90-100 additional pounds in my panniers as well as a loaded trailer. Essentially we're talking about a very heavy, fully loaded touring tandem weight on a solo bicycle. After having talked to Sacha at Vanilla, 3 other frame builders who shall remain nameless based on their less than positive attitudes(basically saying NO solo bike could support all that weight), Co-Motion and Robin Thorn at SJS Cycles... all of them agreed hands-down that a lugless design would make the most sense and out of those guys only Robin Thorn 100% guaranteed that the bike would not only hold up to all that weight for years BUT it would ride superbly... and that bike was the Thorn eXp.
Of course, we'll see! My eXp will be completed around the first of 2004.