Joe75

Hi all

I've been fair weather commuting for a year now on a too-big, annoying flat bar bike. I am right now saving up for the one bike that will do it all...at this point it looks like its going to be a Jamis Aurora. But, I am for some reason unable to rid myself of the desire to go with an internal gear hub. (So I'd save more to build up a CC or something) So I have two questions...1. Why do I see so few of these built up at LBSs? or on local bike racks? 2. Is it worth it, or are there some disadvantages I haven't thought of? The internal gear hub seems like a dream come true...but what am I missing?

Thanks in advance

Derailed

Internally geared hubs are a little heavier, more expensive and less performance oriented than derailleur systems. That said, they are great for commuter bikes and even some light touring.

I have a Cross-Check built up that I usually ride as a fixed gear, but occasionally switch over to an internally geared hub when I want some gears. If it weren't so flat where I live, I'd probably keep the internally geared hub on it all the time. Here's a link to a review I wrote a couple of years ago.

Harris Cyclery sells a Bianchi San Jose that they modify by adding an 8-speed internally geared hub, but I think you're required to pick it up locally. You may also want to consider a Breezer Uptown, a great commuter, but you'd lose drop-style handlebars. I'm not aware of any stock bikes with drop bars that use an internally geared hubs.... anyone aware of such a beast? Personally I prefer drop bars... hence my custom CC.

-D

wahoonc

You can add a IGH to any bike (within reason) depending on what you want a hub could be as inexpensive as a ebay Sturmey-Archer for $20 (or even free from a trash pile) build up a wheel and get riding. They used to call those Clubmans Most of my bikes anymore are the upright style. Most current acquisition is my Redline R530.

Aaron

unkchunk

Hey, I got one. I had this idea in my mind and I had to know for sure. So I shopped around for an LBS that was interested in building it up for me and did it.

1. I guess LBSs don't want to get stuck with unsold inventory. Face it, there's been internal hub bigotry in this country for years.

2. I think it was worth it. But then I transitioned from an old hybrid that didn't shift quite so well any more. I think a person used to a well tuned high end derailer system will be turned off from the friction, but I don't think that it's so much. The initial set up is going to be more complex, choosing your cog sizes, compatible handle bars and shifter choices, learning how to disconnect to change tire, but after that it gets easier. A major hub malfunction will be a problem because so few LBSs have any experience repairing these things.

I think the main selling point should be the ability to change gears while at a stop. This is a major advantage in high density urban traffic. There is nothing worse than cruising along at a high speed and then having to make a quick stop because of some car, pedestrian or other cyclist cut you off... leaving stuck in the middle of traffic in a gear to high to peddle... and you try to change to a lower gear, but since you aren't moving the chain slips and gets stuck between the rings... and there's a bus coming down on your ass... and if you didn't unclip two seconds ago, then you are going to topple over. That happens about every other block. With an internal hub, as quick as you can snap your finger, you can get to a lower gear and you're good to go.

Anyways, once your mind gets infected with the internal hub idea, you will never be at peace until you try one.

d2create

Actually a lot more bikes are showing up with them nowadays.

I have a rear wheel with SRAM i-Motion 9 hub for sale.

Torrilin

The grip shifters for modern IGH setups are not compatible with drop bars... the opening is too small. So to use them with drops, you need to kludge something together. This means a lot of shops think of IGH as slow and a pain in the neck to deal with. Add in that doing a rebuild on an IGH really *is* something of a pain... it shouldn't need to be done often, but the thought of all the gears exploding over a workbench is not something the average mechanic likes.

'round here, you see a *lot* of IGH bikes on racks. They run roughly neck and neck with the fixies and singlespeeds. Deraillers tend to be most common. Recumbents are least common... lots of people ride them, but they're hard to park.

I love my IGH bike. It's *not* a go fast bike tho... very upright position, very good cargo capacity and I tend to carry a *lot*. It'll make a very good year round bike, which is exactly what I wanted.

thdave

I love my internal gear hub but I agree with this post. Of the issues cited, In my mind the added cost is the largest problem. It's hard to find them, too. But, IMO they are the way to go for most sub 10 mile commutes or city rides provided they come with a decent chainguard. I wore nice slacks this morning on my ride, which I'd never do on a derailer bike.

mconlonx

I built up an IRO Rob Roy frame with a Nexus 8sp hub and it has worked out beautifully. I got the Alfine rabidfire shifter--had a twist-grip 7sp shifter and wanted to try something different. Also wanted to see if it would fit a drop bar like twist-grips can't. No go on the drop bars, so I used mtn diameter Nitto Moustache bars instead.

There is supposedly more friction in an IGH system, but you will get the same friction in a haphazardly maintained derailleur system. i.e. one used for day-in, day-out commuting. I haven't done the cost comparison, but I have to think that the cost to buy the hub, cassette, rear derailleur, front derailleur, extra chainring(s), one extra shifter cable and housing, and shifters, is probably comparable to an IGH setup. 8sp Nexus Premium "Red Band" is supposedly comparable to Ultegra-level components...

You also don't get the same spread of gear range with IGH as you would with most derailleur systems, but think about your ride and how much time you spend in the very lowest or highest gears--if you're regularly using the whole, entire range, you'll miss some of those gears going to IGH, but if you stick to just a few gears in the middle an an occasional higher or lower one, then IGH won't be a detriment.

Leiniesred

I say try it! My internal nexus hub has been trouble free (so far). It is loud, heavy, has a bit more drag in all of the indirect gears, but so what? It is a commuter, not a race bike.

Straight chainline means chains and sprockets just don't wear out, and a chainguard fits easily to keep the grease off the pants!

I think internal hub is just dandy for a commuter. I wouldn't race with one, but hey.
I even run a roller brake. It too is heavy, but NO maintenance and it works in rain, snow, and ice.


Again. commuter bike. Ease of (lack of) maintenance trumps performance for me on the commuter.

thdave

Good points.

Not too long ago there was an analysis posted on this website as to the efficiency comparison of an internal gear hub vs. a derailer bike. There really wasn't much difference--just a few percent (I seem to remember 94% vs 91%). Clearly it weighs a bit more.

Note my 7 speed hub doesn't have more noise than my hybrid.

climbhoser

I originally intended to do an IGH on my cross check, but went with derailleurs instead. Now that I've built my new commuter and my Cross Check is a dedicated single speed with Wald North Roads I'm reviving the dreamn for an IGH. I think it's a stellar idea, and they work really well.

K6-III

Another fan of the IGH.

My hubs:
Numerous Sturmey AW and clones
Shimano Nexus 8
2x Sram S7 drum

wahoonc

Oooh are we counting IGH Hubs?

I have at least 5 Sturmey AW's installed in wheels. Three on bikes and probably 4 more NOS. An FG, and an AG one bike with a TCS II (coaster brake version). A couple of Shimano 3 speeds 3SC IIRC, and the newest of the batch is my 7 speed Nexus on my Redline R530.

Aaron

deez

I think that IGH's are more common in beach areas as they arent as adversely affected by sand

keep in mind also that some IGH's will slip a gear if you put too much power into pedaling it. I've tried to really stand on 3rd gear (i've got a 3 speed IGH) once or twice when i really should have been in a lower one and if I gave it too much it might jump out of gear into the next one down.


That said, i love my IGH, i just wish it was a 7 speed.

politicalgeek

Just picked up an old...err classic....IGH English 3 speed. Just a few quick rides around the block while working to get it rideable have convinced how wonderful these types of bikes are. Simple and Beautiful. You can't go wrong.

Joe75

Aha, I am enlightened. Thanks all this was really very helpful. I think I have been talked down. Basically, it's like this: since I am going for the all-in-one-commuter-but-also-weekend-fun-ride-and-maybe-short-tour-bike...I am going to go with a derailleur.

Then, when I save up some more, I can spring for the round-town IGH bike. (This will also allow me to have some gear to wish I had, since my life is meaningless without gear to wish for.

rodar y rodar

Perfect! I`ve been driving a Nexus 8 for about a year now because I had the same obsession. I use mine for my short commute, occasional shopping, dinking around the neighborhood or riding with my wife or kids. It`s great for that. I agree with all the ups and downs that have been mentioned. For as much as I like it, I think I`m going to part out that bike in the fall. The wheel will serve double duty on my wife`s bike and on a cheapo tandem since the riding style I described above is the only riding those two bikes see. I had fun with my experiment and if I could manage ANOTHER bike in the household, I`d keep the Nexus for myself, but I`m hankering for a longer range and it really is a drag to climb back from town on my tank of a commuter. I want a bigger, tighter gear range and don`t want to shell out for a Rohlhoff.

breadgeek

I share the obsession. I sprung for a complete bike that had a Rohloff, which for my basic commuting is both overkill and a dream. The durability, chainguard and cleanliness of any IGH was what I was after.

The extra weight is good for my heart. As for the Rohloff, it's a modern Difference Engine for which Charles Babbage would be proud (that's whose pic is my avatar).

Tabor

I have hear rumors that IGHs make it hard to change flat tires. Is this true?

deez

I can't imagine why. The only difference between changing a tire on an IGH or a regular Single speed is you gotta disconnect the thing that selects the gears (whatever the heck its called) before you can get at the nut that holds the wheel on.

gnome

I've almost as many Sturmey hubs. Not all of them are yet on bikes. I've two? AWs, an AR, an AM, an AG, a FG, a S1 (first generation 5 speed). I've also got a Raleigh 20 with a Sachs Topedo Duomatic (two speed, kickback change & coaster brake) and a Healing Crusier (R20 Copy) with a shimano three speed.

I'm about to put a Sram Dual-drive (best and worst of both worlds) on my recumbent and I keep looking at my bikes and seeing what one would be best suited to a NuVinci CVT hub. I likes the simplicity of use and clean lines of an IGH for commuting and utility bikes. My lovely old Mercian will remain fitted with derailleurs and my wet weather fixie will stay with one gear though.

mike

Agreed. For functional riding, an internal hub is the way to go. Most importantly, perhaps, is the fact that you can put a chainguard on your bike and keep your pants legs clean. I think this is a hugely important factor because all of my pants have grease stains on the cuffs from riding road bikes. I use ankle tapes, but still they get dirty.

The other thing is that external derailures themselves get filthy and require cleaning.

They do have a somewhat limited range, however. If you add a double or triple chainring to the front, you negate much of the advantage of an internal hub, so you are pretty much stuck with seven or eight gears. For a lot of riding, however, that is plenty.

I am all for internal hubs.

meanwhile

The Shimano Alfine hub as a really good rep in the UK now; it's even being used for heavy mountain biking. I have heard it's hard to find in the US, but it could be worth importing personally.

politicalgeek

Not at all. Just did both yesterday without an issue. Came off pretty easily. Getting it back on was a bit tricky, but maybe having a repair stand would help. I also learned, through advice here at BF, how to get the cable ack on properly to shift.

thdave

You don't have to disconnect the cable.

If you take both nuts off the wheel, the tire can come off on the side without the cable. The wheel stays there well enough. Replace or repair the tube and bolt on the wheel. This is akin to keeping the chain on a derailer bike when changing a rear flat. It's no problem.