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  1. #1
    aka Cherith Cutestory
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    Looking for a frame like this

    I'm contemplating building a "dutch" style bike from the frame up, sort of like in the picture:

    http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bi...cycle_suit.jpg

    I have searched around a bit, but where can I find a frame in the spirit of the picture? I've seen places to buy complete bikes, but that takes all the fun out of it. Anyone have any idea where to buy just the frame/fork instead of a complete bike? I don't want to use drop down handlebars, but I also don't want a mountain bike frame.

  2. #2
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    This might be your ticket (BTW, I'm Wildcat on Epic): http://www.kogswell.com/

    Michael
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  3. #3
    Scott n4zou's Avatar
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    You want a Surly travelerscheck.

    http://www.surlybikes.com/travelerscheck.html
    You'll also need an internally geared hub like the one shown in the picture.

    http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPHUINT/HU2542

    The picture shows a bottle type dynamo but sense your building everything yourself a dynamo and drum brake up front would be very nice.

    http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPHUGEN/HU2200
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  4. #4
    Senior Member d2create's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n4zou View Post
    You want a Surly travelerscheck.
    Why would he want a frame that he can break down and travel with?
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  5. #5
    Scott n4zou's Avatar
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    It's the only one with the correct dropouts for an internally geared hub. It's also an affordable frame. Most everything now has vertical or track dropouts unless you feel like spending $1000+ for anything else compatible with an internally geared hub.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Real "dutch" bikes tend to be made using heavy parts that are cheap because the bikes are intended as very inexpensive transportation vehicles. I was just talking with a Dutch fellow a few months back about this style and he had nothing good to say about them other than that they were inexpensive and easily gotten. As a way to get places it was better than walking but not much fun as a bicycle. Please don't shoot me over this. I'm just passing on his observations....

    The idea of the style is a nice way to go if it will suit your needs but I think you can do better than the cheap component concept.

    Something like a Surly or Soma or similar frame sized to be less aggresive (slightly shorter than "ideal" top tube length?) and then set up with something like Northroad or other upright handlebars a Brooks saddle (or whatever floats your backside) and you've got yerself a nice casual ride. Fenders and rack are manditory of course and a small front basket for bagguettes,wine and cheese pickup on the way home would be a definite plus.

    I have to say that the Ttravelerscheck would be overkill thanks to the cost of the joints. A Crosscheck or LHT in that lineup would be a far cheaper option.

    I'm currently a Soma fan since I'm in the process of building up a Double Cross. They've got lots of casual handlebar options listed in their parts area online. Velo Orange has similar stuff when I was on their site recently as well.

    Also if you search here on different upright handle bar names you'll come across some threads with pictures in the commuting, 50+ and Classics forums with examples of casual ride position bikes as inspiration. I know that when I went looking for info on moustache bars I ended up in threads with pictures of bikes like this.

    A nicer old lugged frame would be a great way to go. Something about well shaped lugs with some pinstripping to bring them out really spells C-L-A-S-S-Y. If it's in a more casual color that goes with silver parts and brown toned saddles and genuine cork grips now you're really onto something.
    Last edited by BCRider; 08-03-08 at 02:58 PM.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  7. #7
    Senior Member lapher22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n4zou View Post
    It's the only one with the correct dropouts for an internally geared hub. It's also an affordable frame. Most everything now has vertical or track dropouts unless you feel like spending $1000+ for anything else compatible with an internally geared hub.
    Try the crosscheck just doesn't break down to travel and half the cost. or why not check CL and save an old touring bike and probably money

  8. #8
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    There are many old Japanese bikes on www.craigslist.org with horizontal dropouts (for an internal hub) and eyelets for fenders. Though, many have 27" wheels.
    They are a good basis for an inconspicuous commuter bike.

  9. #9
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    Real "dutch" bikes tend to be made using heavy parts that are cheap because the bikes are intended as very inexpensive transportation vehicles. I was just talking with a Dutch fellow a few months back about this style and he had nothing good to say about them other than that they were inexpensive and easily gotten. As a way to get places it was better than walking but not much fun as a bicycle. Please don't shoot me over this. I'm just passing on his observations....
    That's the opposite of what I've heard - a lot of them are pretty expensive and built to last 50 years sitting outside with near zero maintenance. They're extremely utilitarian - when your bike is your only mode of transportation you don't tend to ride it for recreation. You might ride it to a park, or a sporting event or maybe a Sunday ride in the country like you'd do in a car but after you've been riding everywhere all week you're not likely to get suited up in a bunch of lycra and try to get a new best ride for 50 miles! So yeah, you can't call them particularly responsive or fun. A Dutch bike is more like a Toyota truck than a Ferrari. Gets you where you're going. That's about it. That's all it's designed for - fun doesn't come into the equation.They have to last with parking like this:



    OTOH, you're still riding a bike and I have a blast when I go visit my Uncle - who's little family (wife, two kids) owns 4 bikes but no car.

    I'd call the picture you posted more of an English style bike. That one would stand out in most Amsterdam bike parking lots as a pretty nice and racy bike! But going back to the car analogy, no more rare, nice or racy than, say, a 350Z. But 90% of the bikes you see in Holland look like this:

    Last edited by GV27; 08-03-08 at 10:53 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ratell's Avatar
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    Where in Oregon are you? If you're near Portland check out Clever Cycles http://clevercycles.com for actual dutch bikes (or the electra amsterdam which looks similar to your link), or Citybikes http://www.citybikes.coop/citybike.html Their urban is almost as upright as the bike in the picture. They also do a lot of taking old frames and turning them into upright commuters. They'd be happy to get one close though it won't look as nice as the real deal. I took my old steel hybrid their and turned it into my upright commuter which is nearly as upright as a dutch bike.

  11. #11
    ^_^ Industrial's Avatar
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    Any old raleigh sports will get you close if you're on a budget. If you have some money to burn, I have no idea where to buy a new dutch/english frame.
    "As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." -Abraham Lincoln, 1864

  12. #12
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Your best bet might well be to find an old frame on Ebay like Industrial says. Ask in the Classic and Vintage section and they can tell you exactly what to look for. Of course it depends on how much you want to spend.

    How much would you want to spend? Mercian will custom build you a perfect frame with correct dropouts and such for a reasonable price. Reasonable is in the eye of the beholder but in this case I'm talking $800 or $900.

    http://www.merciancycles.com/

    Also visit Rivendell for all the parts and advice you need for a bike exactly like the one in your picture. Their frames are good too but pretty dear next to a custom Mercian.

    www.rivbike.com
    Last edited by GV27; 08-03-08 at 10:54 PM.

  13. #13
    aka Cherith Cutestory
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    Thanks for all the info. I actually already have a crosscheck, but its more of my touring bike than anything and I want a dedicated commuter to roam the town on thats more upright. I'm carfree so I use a bike everyday and haul all kinds of stuff on it.

    I thought about picking out an older frame, I've got decent schwinn frame stashed away somewhere but the frame is a little too big. It always seems to me that older bikes on CL are overpriced. By the way I'm in Boulder, CO need to update the location.

    I've had a hard time tracking town any new frames in this style. Seems to be plenty of complete bikes to be had for lots of money, but I want to build this one from the ground up. I like the look of the Kogswell but they don't say much about the dropouts. I also looked at the Iro Rob Roy, but I'm worried the frame won't be suited well for an upright style of riding.

  14. #14
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    The bike wholesaler J&B sells a 3-speed bike Cykel with a lugged frame.
    Maybe, you can try to buy its frame.
    http://74.8.32.132/nondealer/product...=24290&large=1

  15. #15
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
    That's the opposite of what I've heard -....They're extremely utilitarian - when your bike is your only mode of transportation you don't tend to ride it for recreation. You might ride it to a park, or a sporting event or maybe a Sunday ride in the country like you'd do in a car.....A Dutch bike is more like a Toyota truck than a Ferrari. Gets you where you're going. That's about it. That's all it's designed for - fun doesn't come into the equation.......
    Actually it isn't really the opposite other than perhaps for the price. All you said pretty much mirrors what the guy I talked to said including "fun doesn't come into the equation". He didn't say that they weren't useful. Just they weren't much fun to ride.

    I like the comparison to the Toyota truck compared to the Ferrari. It pretty much hits the nail on the head. Or perhaps the truck should be more like an older Ford F150. Not something you give a second thought to as long as it keeps running and getting you and your stuff where it needs to get to.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  16. #16
    Light Makes Right GV27's Avatar
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    Yeah, I suppose a new Toy truck is pretty sporty. I guess that'd be more like a Rivendell commuter. Or a high-end MTB. Rattly old F150 sounds right! 'Cept more reliable. I guess I had my rusty old Toyota in mind. Mostly my objection is the characterization as "cheap". The average Dutch bike is chock full 'o quality. You can feel it every time you (attempt) to pick one up! Some quality steel bikes are super light double-butted cromoly. Others are heavy-guage galvanized steel. Different, but both quality. Most steel bikes would rust away if left out in the rain, near the sea, for 25 years. Not a Dutch bike.

    Not sure where the guy you talked to was coming from but two thoughts - one, they are plentiful and cheap used. Like a car in the US. Also, if you don't have a car, spending $1500 on a form of transportation that's going to last decades is certainly what I'd call "inexpensive". The Dutch bikes do look like crap and it takes some study to understand "don't judge a book by the cover."

    In Boulder you might want to check the Boulder Sports Recycler out on North Broadway by the Bus Stop. They have frames and bikes like that from time-to-time. I was out there just a couple of weeks ago. Nothing in my size but a couple that would do it - including a '60s (or so) Raleigh almost exactly like the picture you linked to.

    New frames are where I pointed you to. They ain't cheap though as I said.

    C
    Last edited by GV27; 08-04-08 at 11:22 AM.

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