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Saw a wrong way rider hit by car this AM

Old 08-07-08, 09:29 AM
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Saw a wrong way rider hit by car this AM

I was at a stop light with feet down and a teenager approaching from my right on the sidewalk riding against traffic shot across right in front of me just as a car to my right was talking a right. The car hit him and he went sliding into the intersection.

He was bloody and angry but seemed alright. I helped him fix his bike while he called and waited for his mom to pick him up. The driver also stopped and gave him her information.

I was impressed by the number of people who offered assistance.

I told him about BF Commuting forum and how we discuss safety strategies all the time on here but he did not seem interested. His mom said this was the 2nd time he had been hit in as many months.

I tried to emphasize without blaming that he would be much safer riding with traffic....but I am not sure he cared.

Hopefully there won't be a 3rd incident.
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Old 08-07-08, 09:35 AM
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Sounds like someone's mom needs to make bike use conditional on riding with traffic!

Also, was he wearing a helmet? :O)
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Old 08-07-08, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawtooth
I was at a stop light with feet down and a teenager approaching from my right on the sidewalk riding against traffic shot across right in front of me just as a car to my right was talking a right. The car hit him and he went sliding into the intersection.

He was bloody and angry but seemed alright. I helped him fix his bike while he called and waited for his mom to pick him up. The driver also stopped and gave him her information.

I was impressed by the number of people who offered assistance.

I told him about BF Commuting forum and how we discuss safety strategies all the time on here but he did not seem interested. His mom said this was the 2nd time he had been hit in as many months.

I tried to emphasize without blaming that he would be much safer riding with traffic....but I am not sure he cared.

Hopefully there won't be a 3rd incident.


Dunno...he seems bound and determined to take himself out of the gene pool.

His choice, his risk. Two accidents in two months could be just unlucky, but given the description of his attitude and how he rides I doubt it.

If you haven't learned the easy way or the hard way, you will get a permanent lesson, courtesy of our friend Charlie Darwin.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawtooth
I was at a stop light with feet down and a teenager approaching from my right on the sidewalk riding against traffic shot across right in front of me just as a car to my right was talking a right. The car hit him and he went sliding into the intersection.
At which intersection did this incident occur?

My wife recently saw a close call at Fairview and Milwaukee. Also was a teenager going the wrong way.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by uke
Sounds like someone's mom needs to make bike use conditional on riding with traffic!

Also, was he wearing a helmet? :O)
Yes, he had a helmet on. I am not sure his mom was convinced he would be safer riding with traffic either. Most people just don't get that concept because it goes so strongly against what we were usually taught as kids. It is really an argument that demands the use of logic instead of emotions. We aren't too good at that.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob T
At which intersection did this incident occur?

My wife recently saw a close call at Fairview and Milwaukee. Also was a teenager going the wrong way.
Ustick and Five Mile: 7:45 or so this morning.

Fairview and Milwaukee could be bad. Lots of traffic through that one.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:10 AM
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better than taking out another biker I guess.

Tangentially, my dad insisted, when I was a kid, that I bike against traffic.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:13 AM
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I also thought it was safer to ride against traffic, and for the first few days after I started riding again this summer, I rode against. I think I changed after reading this forum. So yeah, for most people, pre-correction, it's likely common knowledge to ride against, due to being able to see oncoming traffic. It's also likely an extension of procedure when walking/jogging, where lots (most?) people prefer to jog against traffic, rather than with.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:15 AM
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Teenage boys do stupid things. Sometimes a good scolding from a complete stranger will shake some sense into them.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg
Tangentially, my dad insisted, when I was a kid, that I bike against traffic.
I've tried riding tangentially too, but I always end up in the grass.

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Old 08-07-08, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge
I've tried riding tangentially too, but I always end up in the grass.

That's most people's mistake in a traffic circle.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge
I've tried riding tangentially too, but I always end up in the grass.

HAHAHA.
By the way HardyWeinberg, I am still loving those tires you gave me. My commuting buddy also bought a pair. They are perfect for long road commutes with short off road lunch rides.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:51 AM
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Yesterday I was biking into work and saw a teenager on a bike on the sidewalk. Boo on riding on the sidewalk, but at least he was going with the flow of traffic. What impressed me was that he walked his bike through the intersection, which, if you are going to be on the sidewalk, is probably the safest thing to do...at least that's what bike safety in elementary school taught me :-).

I constantly see people in my area running/walking with the flow of traffic and people on bikes going against the flow of traffic or on sidewalks. I think a lot of people just don't know what they should be doing. But then again, I grew up in an area that had no sidewalks outside of the downtown area, so I grew up riding on the road; many of my neighbors thought my mom was crazy for encouraging, advocating, and even partaking in such dangerous activities as riding on the road :-).

Anyway, as a teenager, you'd think the kid would be like "riding on the sidewalk is for little kids and losers! Screw the sidewalk, I'm not going to listen to anything my mom tells me!" He'd be safer if he did.

Last edited by corripio; 08-07-08 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 08-07-08, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by uke
So yeah, for most people, pre-correction, it's likely common knowledge to ride against, due to being able to see oncoming traffic.
That would be odd since it's illegal (in the vast majority of cases) to ride on the road against traffic.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:07 AM
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sounds like a job for steven levitt, prove that its safer to ride with traffic.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
That would be odd since it's illegal (in the vast majority of cases) to ride on the road against traffic.
...and if you don't know it's illegal (most likely, the majority of casual cyclists don't know), the law isn't a factor in whether you ride against traffic or not.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:33 AM
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I started running about a year before I started cycling and when I first set out, I thought: Should I run with traffic or against traffic? I remembered learning as a kid that you run/walk against traffic, and cycle with traffic.

I'm surprised more people didn't learn that in school.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawtooth
I was at a stop light with feet down and a teenager approaching from my right on the sidewalk riding against traffic shot across right in front of me just as a car to my right was talking a right. The car hit him and he went sliding into the intersection.

He was bloody and angry but seemed alright. I helped him fix his bike while he called and waited for his mom to pick him up. The driver also stopped and gave him her information.

I was impressed by the number of people who offered assistance.

I told him about BF Commuting forum and how we discuss safety strategies all the time on here but he did not seem interested. His mom said this was the 2nd time he had been hit in as many months.

I tried to emphasize without blaming that he would be much safer riding with traffic....but I am not sure he cared.

Hopefully there won't be a 3rd incident.
Unless there is a law against riding on the sidewalk, the cyclist was technically within the law and it was the driver's fault for failing to yield to someone in a crosswalk.... yes, I know... they're only looking for oncoming traffic from the left, but that doesn't excuse the fact that they hit someone who had the right of way. In places where they take cyclists and pedestrians seriously you see drivers stop, look BOTH ways, then proceed cautiously across an intersection with a bike path, lane, or sidewalk...

My wife is more than happy to ride on the sidewalk whichever way she's going... but she DOES double and triple check traffic and make sure she's not going to get hit by some idiot that's not paying attention.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by uke
...and if you don't know it's illegal (most likely, the majority of casual cyclists don't know), the law isn't a factor in whether you ride against traffic or not.
I don't think this is a very obscure law at all.
In elementary school, bike safety was a part of my gym classes; for like 7 years we were constantly told you should ride with traffic, walk against it. In order to become a licensed driver, I was required to learn the rules of the road. The DMV provided a book of laws with nice diagrams and figures in it; I was tested on this material in order to obtain a learner's permit; this material covered cyclists, pedestrians, and motorvehicles. After obtaining a learner's permit, I was required to take a driver's safety course, where, again, this material this was taught and tested. Defensive driving courses also covers such material.

Such information is freely available on pretty much any state's DMV site and often in several languages. For example:

https://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/brochure.htm
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/pubs.htm

So if I understand correctly, you are claiming that ignorance is a legitimate excuse to break the law and be unsafe? Should we really hold people to such low standards?
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Old 08-07-08, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
Unless there is a law against riding on the sidewalk, the cyclist was technically within the law and it was the driver's fault for failing to yield to someone in a crosswalk.... yes, I know... they're only looking for oncoming traffic from the left, but that doesn't excuse the fact that they hit someone who had the right of way. In places where they take cyclists and pedestrians seriously you see drivers stop, look BOTH ways, then proceed cautiously across an intersection with a bike path, lane, or sidewalk...

My wife is more than happy to ride on the sidewalk whichever way she's going... but she DOES double and triple check traffic and make sure she's not going to get hit by some idiot that's not paying attention.
From what I am imagining, the cyclist didn't have the ROW -- he was approaching a red light, so there would be traffic crossing perpendicular to him. The driver was legally turning right on red.
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Old 08-07-08, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thebarerider
From what I am imagining, the cyclist didn't have the ROW -- he was approaching a red light, so there would be traffic crossing perpendicular to him. The driver was legally turning right on red.
That's where I'm a little confused. OP - was the kid crossing with a green light or against a red light.
If he was riding with a green for his direction then the driver was 100% wrong. Right turn on red is only after a full stop and yielding to anything and everything in the intersection. Sounds like the driver proceeded without making sure the intersection was clear, which would make their actions illegal.

Was anybody ticketed?

btw - there is no "wrong" way on a sidewalk. Sidewalks are, by nature, bi-directional.
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Old 08-07-08, 12:11 PM
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Was the teenager old enough or near old enough to drive? Pehaps they are trying to get that maternal instinct to buy them a car so they can be safe on the road.

And wow bicycle ed in elementary? Bicycle ed in drivers ed? I am pretty sure I had neither. There may have been a page or two in the drivers handbook about bicycles but we weren't tested on it. There was a real push on not drinking and no drugs that they spent pretty much the whole class and the test hammering into your head. Perhaps we all looked like stoners or something
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Old 08-07-08, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by corripio
In elementary school, bike safety was a part of my gym classes; for like 7 years we were constantly told you should ride with traffic, walk against it.
I attended at least five different schools between 1st grade and 9th; bike safety was never mentioned in any of them, as far as I can remember. I wouldn't assume nearly as many people grew up learning this stuff as you did.

So if I understand correctly, you are claiming that ignorance is a legitimate excuse to break the law and be unsafe?
Nope, not at all. What I'm saying is that if you don't know something is illegal, the fact that it's illegal isn't going to stop you from doing it. This has nothing to do with excuses or legitimacy, and everything to do with human behavior. :O)
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Old 08-07-08, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sawtooth
I was at a stop light with feet down and a teenager approaching from my right on the sidewalk riding against traffic shot across right in front of me just as a car to my right was talking a right. The car hit him and he went sliding into the intersection.

He was bloody and angry but seemed alright. I helped him fix his bike while he called and waited for his mom to pick him up. The driver also stopped and gave him her information.

I was impressed by the number of people who offered assistance.

I told him about BF Commuting forum and how we discuss safety strategies all the time on here but he did not seem interested. His mom said this was the 2nd time he had been hit in as many months.

I tried to emphasize without blaming that he would be much safer riding with traffic....but I am not sure he cared.

Hopefully there won't be a 3rd incident.
Indication of a learning disability, perhaps.
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Old 08-07-08, 12:48 PM
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My $0.02...I clearly recall having bike safety demos from the police at my elementary school (probably for 4th or 5th graders) as a child, and being told to walk facing traffic, ride with traffic. I think they called them "Bike Rodeos" but maybe I'm remembering reading that term somewhere else and applying it to them.

Several of my friends/coworkers have kids in elementary school now. I'm going to ask them if their kids have had such a thing at their schools.

FWIW, I've been pondering doing a "Kid-ical Mass" near the Duke Campus in Durham and having a bike-safety demo afterwards. I have a plan for it, have sponsors in mind, I just need to figure out the legal requirements (police and other contacts so we can get an escort, etc.).
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