inunnguaq

Folks,

I figured this forum might be the best spot to air this to get reasonable opinions, rather than the extremist views often aired in the A&S forum. I wasn't on a commute when this happened but I do commute about three days a week.

I'm a grad student in central PA. I was on a ride earlier today (and considering going into the lab, so I suppose it could qualify as a potential commute) and on my way home, came to an intersection that crossed the bike path. This is a T-junction where the bike path parallels the road going straight and people are turning on the other side. The bike path is offset a couple of feet off the road and has stop signs posted at intersections, and you're facing traffic when biking north on it, like I was doing. I was coming down a hill and the light had turned green. Everyone was going forward so I didn't stop, then someone decided to turn right, which I wasn't expecting. I jammed on the brakes, he slowed down, we looked at each other, and I said as I started cycling off "Do you mind signalling, buddy?" This appeared to cause the guy to get unhinged. He started screaming all sorts of expletives at me as he drove off. Whatever, I thought - I wasn't in the right since I should have stopped at the sign, but had he signalled he was turning right, I would have stopped. I was a little rattled since I rarely have road rage issues to worry about here, but that was fine.

As I continued cycling, the guy must have turned around and decided to drive after me, so he turned into a lot ahead of me to block me path. As he saw me coming, he said, somewhat menacingly, "Do you need me to teach you to ride?" He looked ready to burst a blood vessel. I verred around him and sped up, and he unleashed a torrent of abuse at me that quickly got into telling me I should go back to where I came from (I'm not white, and I'm sporting a bit of facial hair right now).

The fact that he came back after me was unsettling. The racism was a bit surreal too - it's been years since I've been subject to racist attacks. I lived in New Jersey just outside of NYC when 9/11 happened, and I spent some time in northern New England shortly after that (to my mom's chagrin, she was afraid that people might take out their anger on me). I've never had any problems until today. Now I'm a little nervous that if he recognizes me on the road, he might try to take me out.

I'll send out a question to the forum here: what would you have done in this situation? I think avoiding anything was probably best, though I wish I had gotten his license. I wonder if asking him what his deal was would have been worth asking him, or if I would have been asking for trouble (he was a young guy, pretty big looking, buzz cut - I wonder if he was a military guy with lingering issues). Have any of you had to deal with this sort of thing on a solo commute or solo ride? How have you done so?

Thanks for your responses and the opportunity to vent a bit.

uke

Avoid, do not engage. If you see him (or anyone) again and feel threatened, ride away. Take down plates, take pictures if possible. If actively threatened, call the police, and make it obvious. Your goals are to avoid confrontation and contact law enforcement. Remember this for next time.

taliesin

+1

I would not engage a person behaving like this. Take down their plates, get safely away from them, and call the police. I'm not sure of the laws in PA, but if the person threatened you and targeted you because of your race or religion it would likely qualify as hate speech and be regarded as a serious crime.

No one should have to endure this kind of treatment, but some people are tremendously ignorant and have a propensity for violence: for your own safety get away from these types as quickly as possible, and then alert local and/or state authorities.

JeffS

Moral of the story... keep your mouth shut if you're not ready to fight.

chephy

You better always expect it in a situation you describe. You can't rely on drivers to signal their turns or to see you.

Others already gave good advice about what to do re the actual confrontation. Avoid the lunatic, jot down the plates if you wish and report him just in case. And don't let the racist part bother you much. When in a fit of road rage, people like that will say absolutely anything that they think is going to rattle and offend you in some way. And they usually don't have very good imagination. So if you fit some widely known stereotype, they will immediately jump on the opportunity to incorporate it into their wild screaming. Ignore. Move on.

recumelectric

You did the right thing to keep yourself safe in the situation.

Who knows what that guy's problem is, but I bet he's got issues with everyone, including white folks. He just drew on his bank of racial hostility in your case. I'm sure he's got other sources of hostility. I agree with those who are saying to get plate #'s and a description if you see him again. You'll probably be doing someone else a favor, as well.

BTW, I'm "white" (if there is such a thing) and lived on a reservation at one point. The Native Americans used to tell me to go back where I came from. Kind of puts his stupid comment into perspective.

Marrock

I'll bet you real money he drove home and took it out on his wife.

timmhaan

when the anger is turned on, the true colors come out.

this guy has problems and you were obviously at the wrong place at the wrong time. he probably would have thrown a hissy fit if some car had cut him off instead, or some elderly person was walking slowly in the crosswalk. eff him and don't let that idiot get inside your head.

Little Darwin

While I don't condone the racism, and with the recent beaating death in PA of an immigrant I would hope everyone here would be very sensitive to racial issues, apparently it is not the case.

I think in most cases, people that spout racist remarks would find some other stupid remark to shout if they didn't find a racial reason to get all hot. Not that it excuses the action, but more so I think it paints this person as someone that we should all avoid. He would have probably called me a fatty or something else. It is all about him proclaiming his superiority... even if it is false.

I think you are doing what you can, learning from your mistake. Next time, do the right thing, and try not to escalate a confrontation... but these are hard to do, since I know you didn't intend either one, just as I wouldn't have.

keiththesnake

I got called a cracker about a week ago, when some lady almost plowed into me when she was blowing through a flashing red and talking on her cell while I had the right of way. The lesson I learned is to be more aware to avoid even those people who aren't paying attention.

I've experienced road rage while driving a car. I think there's something about the feeling of security a guy has while he's embedded in a ton of metal and plastic that serves to embolden him. I've never had road rage while riding a bike.

I'd change my route for a while. That way you can feel more comfortable going back where you came from (like your apartment) safely.

Oh, and I don't think I'd make remarks to drivers. It just doesn't seem safe. I know it's easy to do when there's a near miss. In my incident, I hollered, "Hey." What can I say, it was in the heat of the moment.

AdamD

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I agree with everyone above saying to avoid direct confrontation at all costs, but the fact of the matter is you can't avoid it 100% of the time. I had a similar situation that I couldn't escape other than to bluff the guy into thinking I was going to hop off my bike and beat the snot out of him. His wife was in their car bought my crazy antics and convinced him to get back in his car and leave, but if he hadn't I don't know what would have happened. I now ride with pepper spray should I not be able to escape the situation and someone needs an attitude adjustment. I haven't had to use it and I hope I never have to (on a person or an animal)

macteacher

As others said..avoid confrontation and keep your mouth closed. I got yelled at last week and i responded in kind... only afterwards did i notice the car was full of 5 big angry, white guys smoking.. they all looked like hoodlums. From now on, im just going to ignore what people say to me.

DoB

Wow, most of the racists have had to crawl back under the rock that they came from due to growing societal intolerance of bigots, but you seem to have found one out and about in daylight. It's like spotting a bat or owl at midday.....sort of strange.

Anyway, you did the right thing. What are you going to do? Fight this moron? It's never a good idea to get in a fight with mentally disabled people.

Big M

I agree that the racist part was probably because he wanted to really give it to you good, and that was all that he could come up with. Not to minimize it, because that is still disgusting and oppressive, but I'm just saying it's unlikely he goes out to target people of your ethnicity for confrontations.

I guess just be vigilant. The odds of you crossing paths again are low. Even then he might not recognize you. And even if he does, do you think he'd risk going to jail for mowing you down? You're more likely to have a random accident than to have one with him again. (If that even makes you feel better )

BBnet3000

a little girl called me and my friend "snowball" when we were riding here in lovely albany.... oddly enough, her mother said "what did i tell you to say?" to prompt her right as we were starting to pass.

great town this is, oh yeah....

yeah im guessing this is the case. he didnt actually use any slurs or anything, right? basically just let this one glance off of your shoulder and hopefully you will never see them again. as someone else said, be vigilant, but some mix up "vigilant" with "vigilante" like some people do.....

nemo

+1 I always expect the worst when on my bike and at work i drive a 5 ton box truck most of the time. when i am on the truck in town i drive with one foot on the clutch and one hand on the shifter. people will cut me off in that all the time, if i am not expecting it am unprepared, someone will at the least be seriously injured.

leooooo

Racism and road rage are two different animals. The nicest person can be driven to the edge of road rage but a racist will always be a racist.
I have no advice for you, but to only let you know that your venting has not fallen on deaf ears.
Stay safe and keep on cycling.

Tom Stormcrowe

I agree with the advice posted here in the thread as well. An enraged person's judgment is questionable at best, so don't engage. Recently, there have been too many incidences of someone escalating to deadly force over what is really a small thing, and if you add racism to the mix, the risk increases exponentially. My rule of thumb has always been to never expect rationality out of a person overwhelmed with emotion.

Schwinnrider

Correct.

mandovoodoo

They are indeed all over. I'll admit to being somewhat confrontational at the idiots who run stop signs. I got called a "yankee" last year! Given the age of the moron, I imagine I've spent more time living in the south than he's been alive. I just haven't mastered the art of talking like a drunk hick. I've certainly never lived in yankee land!

So they're probably just grasping at straws.

I'm glad I don't have to drive where there are lots of people. My tendency is to not bare the other cheek. I'm polite, firm, and can generally take care of myself. I'm rather amazed at how nasty people in automobiles can become. Quite bizarre. Were I constantly exposed to large quantities of them I suspect I'd end up fairly upset fairly often, which I wouldn't like. I'd probably need to go armed with mace or something. Although I maced a fellow once and I didn't like it.

I suspect, as mentioned in another thread, this is a social responsibility thing with the culture, not confined to motorists. Ties into that power, this is my space get out attitude.

CB HI

OK, you (OP) had a confrontation with a motorist and decided to advise him how to drive. He then decided he wanted to give you some advice on how to ride including throwing in a racist remark.
He was wrong for that.
But you are also wrong in coming on this forum and tending to stereotyping him as a “military guy with lingering issues” simply because he had a short haircut. I have to wonder if you have even gotten to know any military guys, before you make such a statement.

I have seen and had both racist attitudes and anti-military attitudes directed towards me. Both are equally uncalled for.

A story:
My company was doing environmental inspections on a military base of the base family housing. During the inspections, it became clear to one of our liberal co-workers that many of the married couples were of mixed race. One day he asked me, “ I thought military people tended to be conservative”? I responded that military member tend to be more conservative than the general public. He then said “But there are an awful lot of mixed race couples”? My response was “Yes the military is more conservative, not racist. The two are not the same. Military members tend to be far less racist than the general public.”

Hydrated

+1

I have a permit to carry a concealed firearm in my state, and I must say that it is a huge responsibility. I have a basic rule of thumb that percolates down to your situation:

Know what situations will demand that you take action. Furthermore, know what lengths that you're prepared to go to. Above all... ALWAYS choose to defuse the situation instead of escalating it. Only take action if you are forced to do so. Never ever pull a weapon only to frighten or threaten another person... scared people do stupid things, and a scared bad guy may attack you when he otherwise may not have. More often than not, bad guys will back off rather than attack a person who seems to be confident and unfrightened.

I can't tell you how many times that being armed has made me walk away from a situation precisely because I know that escalation isn't the wise path to follow. You did the right thing, and you should continue to stay safe by staying disengaged. I would bet that if this guy sees you next week, he won't think a thing about you at all unless you give him further reason to remember you.

Oh Yeah... you may want to examine your own behavior to ensure that you're not making things worse, too. I work with military people every day, and as a group they are perhaps the most un-racist people you'll ever meet. Your apparent predisposition against folks who even appear to be military makes me wonder.

Tapeworm21

That's why the sign says stop.

cmanbrazil

Good point on concealed carry, I think most with the license have the same approach, which is why you don't see concealed carry guys up for murder.

My view is that if i would said anything, it would have been more like "man, Im glad I didn't run into your car, I think I would have lost that battle" if he doesn't seem defensive, then I would tell him how hard it is for bikers when drivers don't signal.

I don't understand why people think they can make smart comments to anyone, and don't think that some people -regardless of who is right or wrong- are not going to go off. In my view, you seem pretty sheltered by class.

azukisingle

Exactly. Should have kept your mouth shut. You were both wrong now move on to dwelling on more important things.