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  1. #26
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikinpolitico View Post
    I did not find the Azor, Retrovelos, Pashleys, or Batavus to be on the same planet as the best bike Walmart sells. That's 2-3 more brands than you've indicated.
    His comment is based on what people actually ride. I would expect to have to look long and hard to find a Retrovelo, a german brand, in amsterdam.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    too many to list. buy a gazelle omafiets, or a batavus personal bike.
    From looking at some Dutch craigslist equivalents those Gazelle bikes seem really popular as an everyday bike, and damn cheap. As long as the bearings are round... haha.

    I don't even think that shipping a bicycle via a freight company would be too expensive (compared to their state post services) - it would just take a few months.

  3. #28
    Bicycle Utopian bikinpolitico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
    His comment is based on what people actually ride. I would expect to have to look long and hard to find a Retrovelo, a german brand, in amsterdam.
    Gotcha.
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  4. #29
    . botto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
    His comment is based on what people actually ride. I would expect to have to look long and hard to find a Retrovelo, a german brand, in amsterdam.
    or an azor, or a pashley (whatever they are).

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by botto View Post
    or an azor, or a pashley (whatever they are).
    Azor is, I understand, a major bicycle company in the Netherlands.

    And if you don't know what a Pashley is, and are too lazy to do a simple google search to find out, then I submit that you are too ignorant to make a sensible contribution to this thread.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Azor is, I understand, a major bicycle company in the Netherlands.

    And if you don't know what a Pashley is, and are too lazy to do a simple google search to find out, then I submit that you are too ignorant to make a sensible contribution to this thread.
    Once again, I am so pleased at the level of maturity displayed on these boards.

    I did Google Pashley, and came up with some US distributors, but sometimes it's nice to ask for a personal reference. Pardon me for ruining your day, Elkhound.

  7. #32
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Azor is, I understand, a major bicycle company in the Netherlands.

    And if you don't know what a Pashley is, and are too lazy to do a simple google search to find out, then I submit that you are too ignorant to make a sensible contribution to this thread.

    You're right your internet speculation is a much larger contribution to the thread than that of someone who lives there but isn't aware of a relatively obscure english brand.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
    You're right your internet speculation is a much larger contribution to the thread than that of someone who lives there but isn't aware of a relatively obscure english brand.
    I live in West Virginia, a state which is a byword for poverty, ignorance, and backwardness, where no local bike store carries Pashley, but even I know that is the oldest continuously operative bicycle company in the British Isles and specilizes in transportational, rather than recreational, cycling. If I know that, then anyone who presumes to set himself up as an expert in utility cycling should know it.

    And, by the way, grammar, spelling, and punctuation are our friends.
    Last edited by Elkhound; 09-29-08 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #34
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    As the thread starter I thought I'd update you as to which direction I went. This past Sunday I purchased an Azor Opa from Dutch Bike Co. Chicago at their recently opened store. I was in Chicago through Tuesday and was able to commute into work with it on my first day back today.

    $1500+ is obviously a lot of money to spend on a non-performance oriented bicycle, so I did not plan on purchasing unless I was absolutely blown away by one of the bikes. Upon arriving at the store I was able to take a glimpse at the entire Azor line, a Velorbis Churchill and also the Retrovelo brands.

    The Velorbis Churchill (a Danish designed bike built in Germany) was completely unimpressive. The finishing was half-ass and there were raw screw ends protruding from the frame. The chain guard and rack were flimsy after market pieces and the bike was expensive. Yuck. I would not recommend the Velorbis line.

    The Retrovelo bikes are beautiful and just scream quality throughout. However, the $2100+ price point and the lack of a fully enclosed chain guard were deal breakers for me. If I was in the market for a stunning fair weather bike, I think it would be a great option.

    Ultimately the Azor/Workcycle bikes were the best match for me. The classic Dutch styling was too much to deny. The quality of the lugged frame and its components really are top notch. While not a fast bike, it is super comfortable and stylish. The Secret Service was a bit quicker and nimble (great feeling ride) but I picked the old style Opa for the thicker tires and beefed up frame.

    The bike really turns heads in downtown Minneapolis which is mostly dominated by mountain bikes, road bikes and the brakeless fixie couriers and posers. Fortunately Minneapolis is a fairly flat town. Getting this bike up even a moderate incline is hard and I will have to work on not wanting to get everywhere fast. The upside is that the bike is a great workout and built to last.

    This is truly a dream bike to own.

  10. #35
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    If I lived in a fairly flat part of the world, an Opafeits is probably what I would go for as well.

  11. #36
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    I'm thinking of buying an Azor and am curious on how it handled your Minneapolis winter...since I in Minneapolis, too!

    As for heavy bikes, I ride an old Schwinn 3 speed and have found that the extra weight of the bike has strenghtened my legs to the point that most hills are no problem. I often commute 13 miles with it and it doesn't take that much longer than my sleek Gary Fisher.

    I'll keep an eye out for your Azor, around town.

  12. #37
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeppole View Post
    North Roads Bikes in Raleigh, NC. They do a Roadster Sovereign delivered to a local Amtrak Station for about $1500. Salud!! -- Z.
    For $1500 or less I would recommend taking a flight to Amsterdam or Frankfurt, buy a bike that meets your needs, take a couple day cycling vacation, fly home, and keep the change.

  13. #38
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    I've heard many good things about Koga-Miyata: http://www.koga.com/us/bike.asp?coll...id=&id=9296247

    These guys make glorious handmade frames/bikes in salty, snowy New England http://antbikemike.wordpress.com/boston-roadster/

    Other than those, the european models have already been discussed...........

    By the way, why the hell would you want to ride such a slow, heavy bike?

  14. #39
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsalyards View Post
    As the thread starter I thought I'd update you as to which direction I went. This past Sunday I purchased an Azor Opa from Dutch Bike Co. Chicago at their recently opened store. I was in Chicago through Tuesday and was able to commute into work with it on my first day back today.

    $1500+ is obviously a lot of money to spend on a non-performance oriented bicycle, so I did not plan on purchasing unless I was absolutely blown away by one of the bikes. Upon arriving at the store I was able to take a glimpse at the entire Azor line, a Velorbis Churchill and also the Retrovelo brands.

    The Velorbis Churchill (a Danish designed bike built in Germany) was completely unimpressive. The finishing was half-ass and there were raw screw ends protruding from the frame. The chain guard and rack were flimsy after market pieces and the bike was expensive. Yuck. I would not recommend the Velorbis line.

    The Retrovelo bikes are beautiful and just scream quality throughout. However, the $2100+ price point and the lack of a fully enclosed chain guard were deal breakers for me. If I was in the market for a stunning fair weather bike, I think it would be a great option.

    Ultimately the Azor/Workcycle bikes were the best match for me. The classic Dutch styling was too much to deny. The quality of the lugged frame and its components really are top notch. While not a fast bike, it is super comfortable and stylish. The Secret Service was a bit quicker and nimble (great feeling ride) but I picked the old style Opa for the thicker tires and beefed up frame.

    The bike really turns heads in downtown Minneapolis which is mostly dominated by mountain bikes, road bikes and the brakeless fixie couriers and posers. Fortunately Minneapolis is a fairly flat town. Getting this bike up even a moderate incline is hard and I will have to work on not wanting to get everywhere fast. The upside is that the bike is a great workout and built to last.

    This is truly a dream bike to own.
    Woops, just saw this after I made my post....

    Grats on your new ride!!!!!!

  15. #40
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    For $1500 or less I would recommend taking a flight to Amsterdam or Frankfurt, buy a bike that meets your needs, take a couple day cycling vacation, fly home, and keep the change.
    No you wouldn't... you'd pull another bike out of a dumpster and continue to belittle anyone who chose to spend money on a bike.

  16. #41
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS View Post
    No you wouldn't... you'd pull another bike out of a dumpster and continue to belittle anyone who chose to spend money on a bike.
    Is that a fact, Jack?
    Vaterland 3 speed purchased new in Germany for DM400 (approx $200).
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    Ragazzi 7 speeds purchased 2 new units for DM268 each (man's and womans model).
    Zero Seven 7 speed purchased new for 560 Euro (approx $500).

    I laff at Internet "experts" quoting the Conventional Wisdom .
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  17. #42
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    "I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou."

    I-L-T-B -- 560 Euro for the Zero Seven is closer to $775 USD. I don't know about the Deutchmark anymore. Isn't Germany on the Euro? Salud!! -- Z.

  18. #43
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeppole View Post
    "I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work, there, Lou."

    I-L-T-B -- 560 Euro for the Zero Seven is closer to $775 USD. I don't know about the Deutchmark anymore. Isn't Germany on the Euro? Salud!! -- Z.
    One Euro cost 92 when I bought the Zero Seven in 2000or 2001. The rest were Deutsche Mark purchases and the exchange rate was about 2DM to a $ or slightly less when I bought the other bikes in 1999 and 2000.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-06-09 at 10:42 PM.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    For $1500 or less I would recommend taking a flight to Amsterdam or Frankfurt, buy a bike that meets your needs, take a couple day cycling vacation, fly home, and keep the change.
    Airfare to Europe, food and lodging there, and the shipping costs to send the bike back would negate any savings.

  20. #45
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Airfare to Europe, food and lodging there, and the shipping costs to send the bike back would negate any savings.
    I think if a traveller did a little shopping for travel bargains and didn't fly in peak season it would be a pretty good chance of breaking even or better. Even at today's exchange rate.

    Plus get some personal enrichment rather than enrich a U.S. LBS or distributor with inflated prices for "Dutch" style bikes.

  21. #46
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    2 grand for a heavy, nice riding cool looking bike?

    Must be nice to have that kinda jack to piss away.

    I suppose if I had ridiculous amounts of throw away income, the need for a short easy commuter in street clothes and I gave two $hits what everyone around me thought about what I was riding, I might buy one of those tanks.

    Actually, I'd probably just ride an old no suspension mtb with fat slicks and put a strap around one leg of my dockers.

    Interesting how I see someone here pointing out the stylishness of these admittedly beautifully made bikes, then refer to others as posers.

    From what I've read here, euros aren't dumb enough to do it because they can purchase similar rides for reasonable amounts.

  22. #47
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    I've got about 20,000 all season miles on a German Kettler Silverstar over eight years. I've replaced the sidewall dynamo with a hub dynamo and the plasstic saddle with a Brooks B67. Other than rust on the rear fender, it's held up quite well.

    Paul

  23. #48
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulH View Post
    I've got about 20,000 all season miles on a German Kettler Silverstar over eight years. I've replaced the sidewall dynamo with a hub dynamo and the plasstic saddle with a Brooks B67. Other than rust on the rear fender, it's held up quite well.

    Paul
    I'm on my 7th year of daily allweather, all-season commuting in Iowa with the 7 speed IGH Ragazzi that I bought for about $135 at Real, a German xmart chain (formerly known as Massa.) I also replaced the saddle with a Brooks B-66 and added additional inexpensive battery powered lights and removed the sidewall dynamo. I have about 35,000 virtually trouble free miles on it so far.
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  24. #49
    Senior Member thdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekker pete View Post
    2 grand for a heavy, nice riding cool looking bike?

    Must be nice to have that kinda jack to piss away.

    I suppose if I had ridiculous amounts of throw away income, the need for a short easy commuter in street clothes and I gave two $hits what everyone around me thought about what I was riding, I might buy one of those tanks.

    Actually, I'd probably just ride an old no suspension mtb with fat slicks and put a strap around one leg of my dockers.

    Interesting how I see someone here pointing out the stylishness of these admittedly beautifully made bikes, then refer to others as posers.

    From what I've read here, euros aren't dumb enough to do it because they can purchase similar rides for reasonable amounts.

    Bitter, huh? To top it off, you're on fashion patrol, and you have inside info on "euros," too.

    The thing that ticks me off is that for commuters, the bike is transportation. Why not get the best piece of transportation one can buy, if you have the cash?
    Cleveland, OH
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  25. #50
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thdave View Post

    The thing that ticks me off is that for commuters, the bike is transportation. Why not get the best piece of transportation one can buy, if you have the cash?
    Why not indeed. A Dutch Gazelle Impala 7 speed with hub dyno lighting is list priced at € 799 in NL including Value Added Tax. See http://www.gazelle.nl/assets/Product...mfort_2009.pdf It is twice the bike being pedaled by the US LBS's as "Dutch Styled Bikes" at far higher prices.

    If you bring the bike back to a non EC country you probably could get the Value Added Tax (approx20%) refunded by doing some paperwork.

    See http://www.gazellebicycles.com.au/pr...ic/impala.html for more info in English.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-07-09 at 09:05 AM.

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