mrbubbles

Assuming you are talking about China. The government there is non-interventionist, there's more free market activity in that country that almost anywhere else in the world (besides Singapore).

Cheap labour force is the result of massive supply of labour and the demand isn't as high, it's not due to exploitation, a price ceiling on wages, or some government clamp down on labour force and this so-called slave labour. 900 million people and ~300-400 million low paying jobs to go around, how in the world do expect higher wages unless they are more jobs for these people? Implementing a minimum wage is detrimental on the long run, that is why the government isn't doing that either, they want to get these people out of poverty ASAP.

Exploitation.

Argon

I'm loving the info on all the lighting but it's getting tedious sifting through all the political side discussions.

daredevil

uh huh! I'll transition with a post off topic but steered toward the proper one.

I just used the Dinotte tail light I got for $100 for the first time today. Love it!

ItsJustMe

Uh, you really should check out something like the Dinotte 200L. Significantly more light than a 10W halogen, and just over $100 when they're on sale (which they are, fairly often) and lighter and better battery life and the light never burns out and they have more modes and flashing modes.

Admittedly, that $100 doesn't buy battery or charger, so in the end they are more, but many people already have a pile of AA NiMHs and a charger (I do, so I went this way).

I had a halogen for several years, and was pretty happy with it, but I'm much more happy with the Dinotte.

As far as LED versus halogen, if you're talking a 10W halogen then the ONLY advantage halogen has is it's cheap. LEDs have definitely surpassed 10W halogens. Some have surpassed 20W overvoltaged halogens.

Santaria

On point one - https://www.ar15armory.com/forums/200...GHT-t6827.html

2000 lumens of badboy power (for 5 minutes). After that, you'll be blind anyways so the remaining 55 minutes of darkness will feel cool on your retinas. I gotta say I'm buying two p7s though if that gives you any idea of how great a deal I personally think they are.


On the politics - If you seriously tried to limit your purchases to things made in America, you'd find you couldn't live. Welcome to the year 2009, where global economy exists. Perhaps you'd care for a return trip to Isolationist America, circa 1913?

Santaria

I recant:

https://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/W...ghts-74-0.html will be my next light.

Means I can stop carrying mace for the hobos...light can cook eggs....burn paper...smiting hobos since 2009...

tarwheel 

I'm very familiar with inexpensive bike lights. I started out with a CygoLite Nite Rover (NiCad version that cost about $60 on sale at the time) and then switched to a Fenix L2D flashlight ($62). I also use a Dinotte 140 tail-light ($103).

The Fenix is much brighter, smaller, lighter than the CygoLite with comparable run times. It uses inexpensive AA batteries that are simple to recharge. Although my Dinotte is a tail-light, they sell a headlight version for the same price (without the charger). I don't think the Dinotte is much if any brighter than the Fenix, but it has more beam patterns and a low-battery indicator. It's probably worth the extra money, although it weighs more with the battery pack.

Chiricocycle

The P7 sounds like a good light. I would like to order one.

Can you recommend a source(s)?

(If there is anyone else with recommendations, please also feel free to post.)

Throwmeabone

My recommendation (the same setup I have):

5-Mode P7 or 8-Mode P7 (this one has the slight advantage of having a copper heatsink versus brass)
Batteries
Charger (this is better than the gray one often recommended because it charges faster)
Handlebar mount

bmike

fan of the ixon iq for about town.
my rando rig is awaiting an upgrade from dual e6 lights powered by a SON to an eDelux - but that will set you back.

seeker333

I have these too and agree with your charger and battery recommendation. I wonder if there are better flashlights at DX than these two models - either p7 or mc-e.

Neither of these flashlights are regulated at constant current. The 16092 is clearly not pulling 2.8A, and output is far less than the claimed 900 lumens. They both run about 80-90 minutes before getting too dim to use for biking. Probably using 1.5A-hr of battery capacity in this 1.5 hours, so an average pull of 1A in my estimation. It's probably 2A for the first 5-10 minutes, gradually tapering to 0.5A after an hour. My 13060 does burn a little longer, pulls a little less current than 16092.

My 16092 is significantly brighter than 13060. I noticed it right away, even before comparing beamshots on the wall. It's a compelling reason to get the 16092 for $5 more.

16092 has mode memory, 13060 doesn't - this alone is a big advantage, especially when the no memory model has only 2 useful modes and 6 useless modes to cycle thru to get to them.

Batteries rattle in both lights. Add tape to improve fit / reduce rattle. Also, good idea to try and isolate flashlight from shock / vibration, which could break the circuit. I'm using a piece of ensolite foam and plastic tie straps - not pretty but works.

Finally, my 13060 intermittently flickers/dims/changes modes/shuts off - even sitting on a countertop untouched. I returned it, going to get a second 16092. I'm not the only one who's had this problem - maybe just my bad luck - maybe a problem with that model - I can't say for sure.

A 16092, 6105 and 2x2500 18650 cost $67 from DX - leaves the OP with $33 (that's 3 trips to the buffet restaurant here).

Maximus_XXIV

Any thoughts on this one for about $60 shipped from ebay? AA batteries and a claimed 200 lumens with a bike specific mount. I am thinking of getting one because I am tired of proprietary replacement batteries costing about $30 less than a whole lighting system.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=380093513429

Item no. Z200


New !! SpiderFire CREE Q5 LED Bike Bicycle Light #Z200

Zoom in / Zoom out for Spot or Flood Beam !!!

*

Extremely Bright CREE Q5 LED with 200 Lumens white light output
*

Light Head can Step less Zoom in / Zoom out for Spot or Flood Beam
*

3 Mode : Low, High, Slow Flash
*

Small Size, Light Weight & Long Lasting
*

Smart IC Inside ! using 4.5V input with 200 Lumens output !!
*

Waterproof
*

Operates on 3x 2AA Alkaline or Rechargeable NiMH Batteries
*

Run Time : 4hrs - Alkaline Batteries / 6hrs - 2700mah
*

Rechargeable NiMH Batteries

*Remark : Battery not included

More information for CREE : https://www.cree.com

Throwmeabone

Thanks for that comparison. I'm happy I got the 16092 then. I was actually going to get the 13060 but it was out of stock at the time.

annc

Make sure your the mount will fit your handlebar; handlebars with larger diameters will not work.

seeker333

That's interesting, hadn't seen that before now - not in that form. Zoom feature should make the Q5 more usable for biking.

I have several P4 and Q5 lights; the best ones pale in comparison to a P7 light (even the half-ass attempts coming from DX, kaidomain, etc). P7 produces a wide angle, flood light; Q5 in contrast produces a narrower spot light. The beam can be changed with optics somewhat but not enough to overcome the basic output characteristics of the emitter. P7 is rated to 900 lumens (although most lights using this emitter produce far less due to lack of proper regulating driver), Q5 is less than 1/3 this amount. If you had them in your hands to compare outdoors, I believe you'd pick the P7 - in about 3 seconds.

I like AAs too. I have $70 in AA and AAA sanyo eneloops - they're simply the best you can buy due to their very low rate of self-discharge. Full charge them to 1.6v, 18 months later down to only 1.3v. A normal NiMH would self-discharge the same amount in a matter of days.

The 18650 (18mm diameter, 650mm length, nominal) used for laptops and most P7 flashlights is a great cell. They weigh ~47g and store a charge of 3.7v x 2000ma. A AA cell weighs ~28g and holds 1.2v x 2000ma. The 18650 is Li chemistry and has nearly no self-discharge. It would take 3 AAs to match the charge of an 18650, at 175% of a 18650's mass, and the AAs would have to be recharged immediately before use to get this performance. The 18650s are easier to live with due to lack of self discharge - unless you use eneloops. 3 eneloops cost $10, 1 18650 from DX costs $5. So, I think you can see how advantageous it is to use 18650 cell for your application. Given that most P7 flashlights use this cell, you don't really have much choice.

Chiricocycle

Rechargeable lithium batteries have a drawback that causes some concern. Apparently many of them have a short shelf life -- not due to self-discharge, but due to irreversible aging from internal oxidation.

Isador Buchmann (Battery University, Cadex, online battery book) discusses this in some of his writings.

Some lithium batteries may be better than others. Toshiba is among the companies that seem to be working on improved designs. Someone said that Toshiba (and possibly others) have some lithium batteries now that have much longer useful lifespans.

Does anyone know where these or other longer-lifespan lithium rechargeables can be purchased?

pacificaslim

I know nothing about rechargeable batteries so can I ask a quick question? I see the NiMH batteries like the eneloops listed as "1.2v" batteries, but above you say they charge to 1.6v. I just want to verify that these batteries when fully charged will power a flashlight (I have a Romisen RC-N3 Q5) as brightly as regular 1.5v AA alkalines. Also, anyone have an idea on what the run time would be like with these rechargable NiMH batteries?

mrbubbles

Runtime on NiMH is dependent on capacity measured in milliamps/amps (mAH/A) and the current draw of the electronic.

Eneloops are 2000mAH (or 2A), if the flashlight draws 1A, a pair of Eneloop should theoretically run for 2 hours max.

seeker333

Eneloops charge to about 1.45v fresh on their official charger. I may have been thinking about li primaries (which have a new v of ~1.7) when i wrote that, I've been using them a lot lately in combination with eneloops to increase voltage slightly, my mistake.

I have 4 rc-n3 from sb. Good inexpensive light. It can handle a little over 4v total. I usually run 16340s in mine that are 4.15v fresh off charger. So, you could run 1.75v AA lithium primaries, std alkaline AA 1.5v nominal (which are usually closer to 1.6v fresh), 1.2v nominal AA NiMH (which again are 1.2-1.4v) and even my previously-mentioned fictional 1.6v eneloops.

BTW AA eneloops won't be quite as bright as fresh alkaline AAs in the rc-n3 since its a direct driven cree q5 emitter; however its unlikely you'll be able to discern the difference with your own eyes. After some burning time the eneloops should be as bright or brighter than the alkalines due to the flatter discharge curve of eneloops and other NiMH batteries - again a minor difference. If you're that hard up for lumens you should ditch the Q5 lights and move to P7 based lights. Once you get a P7, your Q5s and less will be relegated to home/work/hobby duty, since you'll then consider them pretty puny for a bike light.

I haven't checked run time with eneloops on rc-n3, however mrbubbles estimate is correct.

ItsJustMe

The 1.2 volts is a nominal voltage. All batteries put out more than their nominal voltage at first. I was bitten by this a few years ago - I bought a 14.4v battery pack and a TrailTech HID light which said it had a maximum input voltage of 14.8v. Sounds great, I thought. The battery pack fried the HID within 3 hours. I later tested it and found that the initial output of this pack was about 16.6v, which is 1.4 volts per cell - it didn't drop down to nominal 14.4v until almost an hour into its runtime (at about 1/4C draw). Once it hit nominal, it plateaued there, dropping just a couple of tenths of a volt over the next 2 hours, then started nosediving. At the end it dropped 4 volts in 30 seconds before I shut it off.

A proper charger doesn't go by absolute voltage, it uses what's called "negative delta V" - they charge for a second, then remove power from the cell for a fraction of a second and measure the voltage, then go back to charging. They keep charging as long as the measured voltage keeps going up or staying steady. At the instant that the cell is fully charged, the voltage will drop just a fraction, then the charger stops and drops into maintenance mode.

A good light will have a voltage regulator in it which will allow the light to keep running at full output as long as the battery voltage is within its range. If your light runs brighter on 1.5V batteries than 1.2V, it doesn't have a voltage regulator in it.

It's hard to calculate run time. To some extent it's amp-hours divided by amps drawn. But batteries are funny - if you draw enough current to make them start heating up, they start losing power faster (I guess it's lost as heat). So you might be able to draw 1/2 amp for 4 hours, but a full amp for maybe only 1.5 hours.

Also it depends on the circuitry in your light and if it was designed to work with NiMH cells. Some lights will see the cells at 1.15 volts and decide they're dead and shut off, when in reality they still have half their life left in them. Most devices these days though can work just fine on 1.2v cells.

Sawtooth

MAN!!!! This thread is good shiz! Thanks guys.

Chiricocycle

Duracell has NiMH rechargeables that are very similar to the Eneloops. According to some people, they are manufactured by the same company (Sanyo), and are virtually identical.

These and other Duracell rechargeables are sold with a good promotional deal at Amazon.com. The promotion happens periodically, and it can give you some very good prices on these batteries -- ten dollars off if you buy twenty-five dollars or more of the batteries that are included in the promotion.

The 2650 mAh Duracells are great batteries. You can buy sixteen of them for less than twenty dollars with the promotion. There is free shipping from Amazon on orders over twenty-five dollars.

I just bought some of these a few weeks ago and am very pleased with their performance. The extra power (2650 mAh vs 2000 mAh) was the deciding factor in choosing them over the Eneloops or the similar/identical Duracell batteries.

For some applications, the self-discharge issue is less important than the runtime issue. Also, the 2650 mAh Duracells apparently do not self-discharge as quickly as most other NiMH rechargeables.

There is another possible advantage to the low-self-discharge batteries, though. They seem to have (at least they are claimed to have -- I haven't yet seen third-party objective tests that confirm this) a longer cycle life. They are good for more charge-discharge cycles.

I decided that, for my usage patterns, this was not so important. The 2650 mAh Duracells would be good for maybe 400 cycles; the 2000 mAh Duracells (and Eneloops) might be good for up to 1000 cycles. But then there is the aging issue. If you charge and discharge once a week on average, 400 cycles is something like seven or eight years. That is beyond the self life, so it doesn't really matter so much.

However, it is possible that the pre-charged batteries also have longer shelf lives. Haven't seen good data on this yet, though.

ItsJustMe

BTW, yeah, eneloops are pretty nice. I can put them in my digicam and a month and a few dozen pics later they're still in great shape. With regular NiMHs I have to rotate all my batteries out every 2 weeks or so.

If I ever find a deal on Eneloops I'll probably buy a dozen or so.

Chiricocycle

The self-discharge rate for quality NiMHs should not be nearly that bad.

Some Chinese-made NiMHs are not very well made. The Japanese ones (Sanyo, and Japanese-made Duracells for example) are much higher quality than average.

I'll look up the monthly self-discharge rates and post.

They should be fine for a month or two, if the batteries are good ones.

ItsJustMe

I'm not saying they're dead in 2 weeks just sitting, I'm saying that the combination of me using the camera and self-discharge means that if I need to grab the camera and take 50 shots after 2 weeks, I'll probably run pretty low on battery power before I'm done.

In my case it's exacerbated by the fact that my camera got wet in my panniers a few months back, and it tends to drain batteries when it's off. It doesn't seem to bother the Sanyos quite as badly.