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Old 02-27-09, 05:56 PM   #1
leejb2
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Locking up

Can you folks rate my lockup job? I was taught the best way was to put a U-lock through the rear wheel and frame, and secure the front wheel with a cable. My frame has long chainstays, fat tires, and as a result, I can't fit my U-Lock around both the frame and the rear wheel.

A longer shackle would go through both the frame and wheel, but it would need to be wider to too, to get around a post or bike rack.

What do you guys think of running a cable around both wheels and looping the ends through the shank of the U-lock? I've attached a pic to demonstrate.
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Old 02-27-09, 06:25 PM   #2
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Depends on where you live and what the chances are of getting your bike stolen. However, unless I'm interpretting your picture incorrectly, your cable lock is doing nothing for you. If they manage to get the U-lock off, the cable slips right off? You should use a separate lock for the cable.
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Old 02-27-09, 06:32 PM   #3
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The cable lock is protecting the front and rear wheels. If the thief cuts the u-lock, he/she will get the whole bike. But, if the OP didn't have the cable lock, any thief could take both wheels without breaking any lock.

I'd recommend using the u-lock to lock the rear wheel inside the rear-triangle. That way, both your rear wheel and frame are safe unless they cut your lock/wheel in half.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html
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Old 02-27-09, 06:44 PM   #4
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Depends on where you live and what the chances are of getting your bike stolen. However, unless I'm interpretting your picture incorrectly, your cable lock is doing nothing for you. If they manage to get the U-lock off, the cable slips right off? You should use a separate lock for the cable.
Unfortunately, it's NYC.

Fortunately, I don't have to leave the bike locked up for a day or days at a time, just an hour or two.

The idea with using the cable is to secure the bits (wheels) the U-lock can't. I hadn't thought of getting another lock for the cable. That's quite a bit of weight to haul around, though.

Another idea I had was to loop the cable through itself around the front wheel and frame. Probably not any better other than being easier to put on.
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Old 02-27-09, 06:46 PM   #5
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I'd recommend using the u-lock to lock the rear wheel inside the rear-triangle. That way, both your rear wheel and frame are safe unless they cut your lock/wheel in half.
Yes, this is the method I understood to be the best. Unfortunately, the shackle of my u-lock isn't long enough nor wide enough to go through the rear triangle, rear wheel, and a post.
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Old 02-27-09, 07:00 PM   #6
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I think if a thief is able to get the NYC Fahghettaboudit lock off then there's really nothing else you can do.
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Old 02-27-09, 07:04 PM   #7
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Still trying to get my head around Sheldon Brown's strategy of just locking the rear wheel to the post, but I do think it'd work, it's just not necessarily confidence inspiring.
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Old 02-27-09, 07:36 PM   #8
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Just an idea:
Can u fit your u-lock through the rear wheel and around a seatstay or chainstay instead of the seattube?
Would this make any difference?
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Old 02-27-09, 07:41 PM   #9
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Just an idea:
Can u fit your u-lock through the rear wheel and around a seatstay or chainstay instead of the seattube?
Would this make any difference?
Possibly. I'll have to try it on a real structure instead of my kitchen island. It's not very promising, though. A fat 700x35c tire along with a fender and a post aren't too easy to lock around to begin with.
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Old 02-27-09, 10:18 PM   #10
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Still trying to get my head around Sheldon Brown's strategy of just locking the rear wheel to the post, but I do think it'd work, it's just not necessarily confidence inspiring.
It seems weird at first, but the idea is that if you lockup the rear wheel through the rear triangle the only way to get the wheel out is through the rear triangle. The wheel doesn't fit through the triangle. It works just the same as going through the seat post. It may be incentive for would-be-theives to discover that they really can't get the bike freed, and cause extra damage though but that's just speculation.
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Old 02-27-09, 10:34 PM   #11
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Yes, this is the method I understood to be the best. Unfortunately, the shackle of my u-lock isn't long enough nor wide enough to go through the rear triangle, rear wheel, and a post.
You don't have to put the lock through the rear wheel and the rear triangle, just through the rear wheel at a point where the rear wheel is in the triangle. In other words, the only thing that needs to be inside the u-lock is the wheel itself, not any part of the frame.




Notice that no part of the frame is actually inside the u-lock.
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Old 02-27-09, 10:59 PM   #12
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The best way is to remove the front wheel and place it along side the rear wheel, THEN lock the U-bolt around both wheels AND the rear stays then to a post. Yes, I know, you might have to buy another U-bolt that has a longer U then yours if you can't get it to fit; but this will give you an excuse to get the NY 3000 U-Bolt from Kryptonite.

Then use the thickest cable you can find as a secondary hassle. Personally I don't cable locks because their too easy to cut, but OnGuard makes a really tough armored cable lock called the Rottweiler 5023 (L at end if you need a longer cable) that is 1.2 inches thick with a steel armored plating covering the cable.

The Krypt Fahgettaboudit Chain is even better but the dang thing weighs a ton! OK, not a ton just 5 pounds.

Actually the best way to lock a good bike is to lock it in your house and take a Goodwill or garage sale cheap beater out in the public parking areas.
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Old 02-27-09, 11:16 PM   #13
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Just an idea:
Can u fit your u-lock through the rear wheel and around a seatstay or chainstay instead of the seattube?
Would this make any difference?
It's what I do. If I were locking up in a higher crime area, I'd run a cable through the u-lock, wrap it through the frame and through the front wheel as well.

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Old 02-27-09, 11:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by leejb2 View Post
Possibly. I'll have to try it on a real structure instead of my kitchen island. It's not very promising, though. A fat 700x35c tire along with a fender and a post aren't too easy to lock around to begin with.
Take a look at my pictures that I posted above. Neither fenders nor tires come into play here.
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Old 02-27-09, 11:34 PM   #15
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Actually the best way to lock a good bike is to lock it in your house and take a Goodwill or garage sale cheap beater out in the public parking areas.
If you're so afraid of having your bike stolen that you won't use it, why bother? I ride the same nice bike everywhere I go, have a good u-lock, sometimes use cables to semi-protect the wheels, and don't let fear rule the day. I also have insurance.
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Old 02-28-09, 12:01 AM   #16
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if you're parking at the same place every day can you leave an extra u-lock at your destination? It would give you more options.
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Old 02-28-09, 08:14 AM   #17
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Take a look at my pictures that I posted above. Neither fenders nor tires come into play here.
Ah, I see. Sheldon Brown's picture has the shackle around the rim, and that's what I had stuck in my head. Thanks!
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Old 02-28-09, 08:15 AM   #18
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if you're parking at the same place every day can you leave an extra u-lock at your destination? It would give you more options.
It's actually not the everyday locations I'm worried about. My work lets me bring my bike inside. It's the grocery trips, visiting friends, and other errands that I need to lock my bike up for.

Otherwise, yeah, leaving extra locking stuff at the destination would be the way to go.
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Old 02-28-09, 08:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by leejb2 View Post
I hadn't thought of getting another lock for the cable. That's quite a bit of weight to haul around, though.
It's just the addition of another padlock. Perhaps the best reason is to discourage a potential thief: to two different, independent security techniques, hmm, surely an easier target nearby.

Or if the weight is a real concern, dispense with the cable, lock the frame/rear wheel with the u-lock and secure the front wheel and seatpost with Pitlocks.

HTH,
tcs

PS - Concerning weight; remember the old "40 pound" rule: 40 pounds of bike and lock have about the same chance of still being there when you return. So you can ride a 38 pound Varsity and carry a two pound lock & cable, or ride a 16 pound Cervelo and carry 24 pounds of u-locks and chains!
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Old 02-28-09, 02:19 PM   #20
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If you're so afraid of having your bike stolen that you won't use it, why bother? I ride the same nice bike everywhere I go, have a good u-lock, sometimes use cables to semi-protect the wheels, and don't let fear rule the day. I also have insurance.
Insurance is always a good idea, but a deductable will cost you $500 to $1000 to get the bike replaced.

In high crime areas like large cities and at schools your bike can be stolen very quickly without passerbys even caring! If you don't believe that then you need to see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbklkFuFk-4

The average bike today is valued new at $2500 to $3000, and if you can't afford to be replacing that bike and park it in high risk areas then it only makes sense to buy a cheap used bike or a WallyWorld bike, then take that to those high risk areas and use the good bike for other riding.

But Sheldons locking method is good but lacking putting the front wheel along side the rear and locking both wheels to the rear stays to a post. Then use a good armored cable like I mentioned before as a secondary hassle and lock the the wheels and frame again to the post using a seperate lock.
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Old 02-28-09, 03:42 PM   #21
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Ah, I see. Sheldon Brown's picture has the shackle around the rim, and that's what I had stuck in my head. Thanks!

No problem at all. That's how I like to do it rather than around the seat tube. It allows enough extra room in the shackle to get it around thicker posts, still secures the rear wheel and rear triangle of the frame, and there is way too much stuff in the shackle to give any room for tools to be used in a leverage attack.
It's really a winner all the way around.
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Old 02-28-09, 03:49 PM   #22
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If you're so afraid of having your bike stolen that you won't use it, why bother? I ride the same nice bike everywhere I go, have a good u-lock, sometimes use cables to semi-protect the wheels, and don't let fear rule the day. I also have insurance.
I will lock either one of my sub-$100 investment, dumpstered beaters and not worry about them anywhere.

I will stop at the bike shop or the grocery here on the eastside and not be concerned about locking my good bike (at most places. There are some where I lock up, though.) I usually just bring it inside and prop it against the wall near the checkstands. No one has ever complained about it, or messed with it.
You will not ever see my brevet bike locked up out of my sight for even 5 minutes anywhere downtown for two reasons:
1) I do not want the bike, or even any small part on the bike stolen.
2) I do not want someone pranging it up by locking one oftheir dumpster bikes leaned against it.
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Old 02-28-09, 04:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by leejb2 View Post
Unfortunately, it's NYC.

Fortunately, I don't have to leave the bike locked up for a day or days at a time, just an hour or two.

The idea with using the cable is to secure the bits (wheels) the U-lock can't. I hadn't thought of getting another lock for the cable. That's quite a bit of weight to haul around, though.

Another idea I had was to loop the cable through itself around the front wheel and frame. Probably not any better other than being easier to put on.
I guess I'm just a bit more paranoid. I would rather the thief to have to get thru 2 separate locks to steel my bike.
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Old 02-28-09, 07:15 PM   #24
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The average bike today is valued new at $2500 to $3000, and if you can't afford to be replacing that bike and park it in high risk areas then it only makes sense to buy a cheap used bike or a WallyWorld bike, then take that to those high risk areas and use the good bike for other riding.
That's one hell of an average bike value!

I lock my bike just around the rear rim through the rear triangle just like SB suggests. Locking it to the frame can result in a bent frame if a thief tries to use your bike as a lever to pull the lock open. If they try that with just the wheel locked all they'll do is spin the bike haha.
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Old 02-28-09, 09:14 PM   #25
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Hmmm... Have you ever thought of trading out that one Krypto NYFU lock and instead using two Krypto Evo Mini locks? It would actually come out to weiging a little less and protecting more of the bike!

If that's not an option then your first course of action is removing all QR items and replacing it with bolts or pit locks. Then you'll only really have to worry about actually securing the bike frame.

Personally, I use a Krypto Evolution Mini. I have bolts on both wheels (no QR) and only a QR seatpost (for folding purposes). Also, I normally use a Krypto Kryptoflex 4' cable to secure the seatpost/seat with the Evo Mini u-lock which is then locked to the bike rack.
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