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first commuting experiences and questions

Old 04-03-09, 09:01 PM
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first commuting experiences and questions

Ive had my trek 4300 mountain bike for about a month now. Ive been using it to get to/from class and my job on campus, as well as getting around town. My daily commute is generally trouble-free. I was, however, getting pulled over by police twice in the first week of having my bike for headphones/no bike light. I asked my LBS what else I needed to do to stay out of trouble. I was told that riding on sidewalks is illegal, so I have been riding on the road as close to the sidewalk/parked cars as possible.

I recently went on a ride via a major street. The traffic was fairly heavy/fast and the road had a ton of potholes. The combination of the traffic and poor road conditions made the ride somewhat scary. Some potholes/large cracks seemed unavoidable. My friend was riding behind me so I was afraid to break hard. I didn't want to swerve to the left further into the lane because of cars and I didn't want to hit the hole/crack head on because it might damage the wheels of the bike.

As I typed this up I realized going slow would probably be the easiest solution, but I'm curious as to how more experienced riders deal with traffic/road conditions in more urban areas. Does anyone have pointers to riding in city conditions?

I had also considered putting thinner tires on my bike, but now that seems like such a bad idea with the road conditions in certain areas. Im curious, how do road bikes with skinny tires/no suspension deal with rougher conditions?
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Old 04-03-09, 09:11 PM
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* Don't ride with headphones, hearing is important for your safety.
* Buy lights if you ride at night, it's the law in most places.
* Adults cannot ride on the sidewalk in most places.
* Riding in the street is safer than riding on the sidewalk, because turning cars will not fail to see you.
* Ride further out into the lane when the shoulders are poor. The cars won't hit you and you don't have to ride slow. You're worrying about nothing.
* Follow the laws of the road.
* Keep the tires you have and replace them with slicks when they wear out.
* Unweigh your saddle when you hit bad road. Keeps your knees and elbows bent so they can absorb the bumps.
* Road bikes with skinny tires don't work very well in rough conditions. There isn't much a rider can do apart from the point above.

Read this page. It will teach you important traffic riding skills: https://bicyclesafe.com/
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Old 04-03-09, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dizon510
I was told that riding on sidewalks is illegal, so I have been riding on the road as close to the sidewalk/parked cars as possible.
There's not really a 100% safe way of riding your bike on the road, but what you're doing now is how you get a door opened up on you.
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Old 04-04-09, 09:17 AM
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Watch out for car doors when you are riding next to parked cars. Try to give them enough room so that you don't have to swerve if they get flung open.

Ride assertively and predictably.
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Old 04-04-09, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tdreyer1
Watch out for car doors when you are riding next to parked cars. Try to give them enough room so that you don't have to swerve if they get flung open.

Ride assertively and predictably.
Ride a consistent line in the middle of the right hand lane. Don't weave in and out around parked cars as you will find yourself boxed in and in a very unsafe situation when trying to move back left into traffic. Make eye contact with motorists but never trust that just because they see you they won't hit you. Wear a helmet and gloves in case you take a spill(helmet for brains, gloves for hand meat). A healthy fear of autos is good, but don't let it get out of hand. Try different routes until you find the one you feel most comfortable on. Don't let the rider behind you dictate what you do, they need to be aware of the surroundings for themselves, not just looking at your rear end and following. Try slick tires on your MTB instead of skinnies and keep them pumped up properly. Enjoy your commute and develop a thick skin for when you get heckled by the cagers. If you want music they sell several handlebar bags with built in speakers for IPods and such. I personally don't agree that headphones(at a reasonable volume) are any different that riding in a car with the windows up and radio on.
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Old 04-04-09, 09:51 AM
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https://massbike.org/skills/traffic.htm
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Old 04-04-09, 10:27 AM
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Welcome to bicycle commuting! Sorry to hear about the issues with the police, but it was a good thing for your safety. In most states, headphones are not legal while operating ANY vehicle, which includes bicycles. Invest in a good headlight and taillight, and keep them on - even during the day. "Flash mode" saves battery life and catches the eye. If you're riding in total darkness, a headlight in flash mode causes a strobe-light effect, so use your best judgment.

Cracks, seams, and potholes are a constant challenge. Depending on your size, weight, and road conditions, a "skinny tired" road bike may not be your best choice as a commuter. True, they're almost always a faster ride, but if conditions aren't optimal they can be uncomfortable and/or downright dangerous. In general, MTBs can handle rougher terrain, and when fitted with fast riding street tread ("slicks", or "semi-slicks") they make fine commuters. As a rule, wider, lower inflated tires ride better (but slower) than thinner, higher inflated tires. A little research and some trial & error, and you should be able to find a tire and inflation pressure that gives you a smooth enough and fast enough ride for whatever type of bike you ride.

Riding too close to parked cars will earn you a nice "door prize." You should be riding far enough away that if someone unexpectedly throws their door open, you won't get taken out. You have a right to use the lane when necessary, so don't be afraid to use it. Look ahead, pick a predictable line, and stick with it as best you can. Weaving around and riding like you're drunk in an effort to avoid every pavement flaw will get you in trouble. Predictable riding is safe riding. And tell your friends to back off if they're riding so close that you fear being run over.

A combination of guts, brains, and resolve is what empowers most city commuters. Look around, and you'll see just about every type of bike and rider imaginable. People tend to figure out what works best for them, and go with it. As a beginner, my best advice for you is to invest in more thinking and less spending. Be realistic about your expectations. Use Craigslist for bargain shopping. And buy a quality, comfortable helmet.

Good luck.
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Old 04-04-09, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dizon510
I was told that riding on sidewalks is illegal, so I have been riding on the road as close to the sidewalk/parked cars as possible.
That's asking for trouble, big time. Especially when it comes to parked cars and their doors opening. Check this out: https://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm .

I recently went on a ride via a major street. The traffic was fairly heavy/fast and the road had a ton of potholes. The combination of the traffic and poor road conditions made the ride somewhat scary. Some potholes/large cracks seemed unavoidable. My friend was riding behind me so I was afraid to break hard. I didn't want to swerve to the left further into the lane because of cars and I didn't want to hit the hole/crack head on because it might damage the wheels of the bike.

As I typed this up I realized going slow would probably be the easiest solution, but I'm curious as to how more experienced riders deal with traffic/road conditions in more urban areas.
The key is to give yourself enough space to avoid potholes and to give yourself some breathing room. This means moving further left into the lane. And I don't mean swerving, I mean moving out there and maintaining this position, riding in a straight line. This way you're safe and predictable. Different riders have different preferences (e.g., right tire track or centre of the lane), and it's situation-dependent, but that's the general idea.

Another good idea is to study the maps and explore the roads in your area: you might find smoother and quieter alternatives that make for a more relaxing ride, especially for someone who's just getting accustomed to riding in traffic.

I had also considered putting thinner tires on my bike, but now that seems like such a bad idea with the road conditions in certain areas. Im curious, how do road bikes with skinny tires/no suspension deal with rougher conditions?
Most experienced urban riders who value speed (e.g. couriers) tend to prefer somewhat skinny tires and no suspension in urban conditions. A little bit of skill will keep you straight and rubber side down even through the roughest potholes, and good bikes, with properly tuned wheels, aren't at all fragile. Now, this is coming from a 120-pound rider. If you're a bit heavier, you might be interested in checking out the Clydesdales board, with lots of useful info on sturdy bikes and bike components.
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Old 04-04-09, 11:19 AM
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Well i'm 6'1 and about 180 pounds and ride on 23s pumped to 130-140 PSI, and even riding on ****ty roads is no problem, although not too much fun. I don't sit down though i stand up and ride, absorbing the shocks with your butt is no good.
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Old 04-04-09, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jtarver
Make eye contact with motorists but never trust that just because they see you they won't hit you.
I stopped trying to make eye-contact with people years ago, after a few looked right at me, and pulled out anyway. Now, I look at their front wheels, and watch how they're rolling. That is a much more accurate indication if they are going to pull out or not, and the fact that you are _not_ looking at them doesn't let them assume you see them, and will stop when they _do_ pull out. In other words, make _them_ doubt and stop. When I started doing this, needing to hit the brakes hard just about stopped. Much safer, IMO.

-Jon
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Old 04-04-09, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joninkrakow
I stopped trying to make eye-contact with people years ago, after a few looked right at me, and pulled out anyway. Now, I look at their front wheels, and watch how they're rolling. That is a much more accurate indication if they are going to pull out or not, and the fact that you are _not_ looking at them doesn't let them assume you see them, and will stop when they _do_ pull out. In other words, make _them_ doubt and stop. When I started doing this, needing to hit the brakes hard just about stopped. Much safer, IMO.

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If _you_ say _so_
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Old 04-04-09, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by joninkrakow
I stopped trying to make eye-contact with people years ago, after a few looked right at me, and pulled out anyway. Now, I look at their front wheels, and watch how they're rolling. That is a much more accurate indication if they are going to pull out or not
Actually, up to this point, he was correct. After that, things got pretty sketchy, but this much was good advice.
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Old 04-05-09, 05:08 AM
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The only answer I have is that you just deal with whatever comes along.

I like fatter tires for cushioning the bumps in the road. When I wear out the tires on my bent, I'm going to get the fattest thing those rims will hold. I don't care about it slowing me down a little. It's not like I'm racing Lance Armstrong or anything.

Sidewalk riding is illegal in most places, but it seems to be accepted in my area. I will ride sidewalks if the road seems too crazy for me. (I live very close to the intersection of 2 major highways which happen to have sidewalks.) I prefer to ride the road because it is generally smoother and faster, but I'm willing to take the sidewalk if it serves me well.

As for the choice between potholes and traffic, it all depends on the size of the potholes and the speed of traffic. You can slow down on the side and let traffic pass before taking the middle of the road. You can slow down and take the potholes. You can take the sidewalk in a bumpy area while knowing that you risk being ticketed. You have to decide what feels safe and good for you.

I'm happy for you beginning the commuter life. I hope you stay in it. Bicycle commuting is one of the best decisions I've ever made.
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Old 04-05-09, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by recumelectric
Sidewalk riding is illegal in most places, but it seems to be accepted in my area. I will ride sidewalks if the road seems too crazy for me. (I live very close to the intersection of 2 major highways which happen to have sidewalks.) I prefer to ride the road because it is generally smoother and faster, but I'm willing to take the sidewalk if it serves me well.
If I find myself needing to hit the sidewalk, I start wondering what I am doing in that part of town on this road... There must be another route.

On the sidewalk, I keep reminding myself :1) this is dangerous 2) every driveway is an intersection 3) dismount and walk around every pedestrian.

Just as I do all that, I hit a low-lying tree branch.

[No wonder so many wannabe commuters give up.... ]
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Old 04-05-09, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gerv
On the sidewalk, I keep reminding myself :1) this is dangerous 2) every driveway is an intersection 3) dismount and walk around every pedestrian.
The first two sound okay, but the third is a real overkill, and not necessary for safety or even courtesy. It seems to me that you just feel guilty for riding on the sidewalk, and this is a way to "punish" yourself for doing so and to "apologize" to the pedestrians for daring to lay a wheel upon their sacred domain.
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Old 04-05-09, 03:06 PM
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Lots of great responses here.

I just want to emphasize the point that you are fully and legally entitled to occupy whatever part of the road you must in order to ride safely. Weaving in and out of the parking lane or riding in the "door zone" is not safe. It takes a little getting used to, and a modicum of nerve, but taking the lane assertively and riding predictably is the safest and best way to go. The important part is to ride far out enough in the lane that a) you avoid doors from the parking lane and b) don't leave enough space to your right/left that motorists think they can "squeeze by" without changing lanes. That's a sure recipe for getting sideswiped.

Once you start doing that, you will be surprised--cars will begin to see you as more of a co-equal and give you wider berth. Now none of this is to say that you should just mosey along and block traffic unduly--you have to of course be alert at all times and use situational judgment.
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Old 04-05-09, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jtarver
If _you_ say _so_
I find myself going like _this_ and *this* to represent italics and bold respectively, because that's how it works in google talk.
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Old 04-05-09, 06:34 PM
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I was riding close to the curb/parked cars because I had read @ https://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm that this was the policy in California.

"Duty of Bicycle Operator: Operation On Roadway. VC 21202
a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
  1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
  2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
  3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane."
The last section seems to imply that it is fine for vehicles to pass you in the same lane, rather than have to switch lanes to pass.

Has anyone ever been pulled over in California, especially Southern California, for riding in the middle of the lane (closest to the curb)? The major street I was referring to initially was Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Santa Monica. I'm pretty sure I would piss off quite a few drivers if I occupied the entire rightmost lane.
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Old 04-05-09, 06:45 PM
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Headphones and Sidewalks in Illinois

In Illinois, neither headphones nor riding on sidewalks is illegal. Local municipalities (I think) may trump state law, but a number of communities (like mine) simply do whatever state law states.

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...ehicle+Code%2E

I had checked with my local police department before starting my commute and they confirmed that they do not consider headphones while riding a bicycle to be illegal, although there are obvious safety concerns that you need to be aware of.

Just one more data point from the NW suburbs of Chicago...
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Old 04-05-09, 06:48 PM
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Lots of great responses above; fwiw -- on the 'thinner tires' issue, remember: putting a set of lightish 1.5 or 1.75" slicks on your Trek will improve your efficiency (not just speed) no end, WITHOUT doing away with the advantage a lightish mtb offers in your kinds of road/traffic conditions. Just sayin'
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Old 04-05-09, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dizon510
I was riding close to the curb/parked cars because I had read @ https://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm that this was the policy in California.

"Duty of Bicycle Operator: Operation On Roadway. VC 21202
a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
  1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
  2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
  3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane."
The last section seems to imply that it is fine for vehicles to pass you in the same lane, rather than have to switch lanes to pass.

Has anyone ever been pulled over in California, especially Southern California, for riding in the middle of the lane (closest to the curb)? The major street I was referring to initially was Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Santa Monica. I'm pretty sure I would piss off quite a few drivers if I occupied the entire rightmost lane.
Óh oh, wilshire is *horrible*. I don't ride there because of impatient drivers, high traffic, and high speed limit--and people speed!!! I ride that stretch too sometimes when coming home from ucla, but I usually just go on the sidewalk, as there are hardly any pedestrians and as long as you are careful about cars coming out of the driveway it can be less stressful than dealing wilshire blvd drivers.
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Old 04-05-09, 06:57 PM
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Good advice here. I would reiterate, DO NOT weave around. Pick a line that's to the left of potholes, broken glass, doors that could open, or any other hazard, and ride there. Don't go weave back and forth; this will get you hit.

Remember, you're entitled to take the entire lane if it's required for your safety. People may get mad; let them get mad, as long as they're not hitting you.
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Old 04-05-09, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dizon510
The last section seems to imply that it is fine for vehicles to pass you in the same lane, rather than have to switch lanes to pass.
Yes, it is legal for them to do so, as long as it's done "safely" (some places specify a minimum lateral distance between cyclist and passing car, but most don't). It's also legal for you to prevent them from doing so, if the lane is too narrow.

Has anyone ever been pulled over in California, especially Southern California, for riding in the middle of the lane (closest to the curb)? The major street I was referring to initially was Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Santa Monica. I'm pretty sure I would piss off quite a few drivers if I occupied the entire rightmost lane.
I would say getting pulled over is not a big concern: in the unlikely event that it happens you'll just get a lecture from some ignorant cop. Listen and nod, ask for a badge number, report him later if you feel like it. If he goes so far as to write you a ticket (unlikely, in my opinion), just point out the relevant traffic laws, and it should be fine. Because you'll be basically and undeniably in the right. (Sometimes even being obviously in the right is not enough, but I think we're getting into real unlikely events territory already.)

Your concern should not be the cops; it should be your comfort and safety. Do what works for you. You don't have to ride in the middle of the way - just far enough out to avoid potholes, have some escape room, and force drivers to slow down and change lanes at least partially in order to pass you. Pedal with a fast, constant cadence (75+ pedal revolutions per minute), go in an unwavering straight line, and look like you know what you're doing. Or - look around for a more relaxed route. Looking at Google maps, I see a lot of sideroads - the only stretch where there are no alternatives is the one that goes through Los Angelos Country Club: and it really is quite a short stretch. It would also be quite safe to ride on the sidewalk for that stretch, if there is a sidewalk, because there are no driveways and probably very few peds.
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Old 04-05-09, 10:54 PM
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Lots of good advice here. I ride in LA, and read recently that it is legal to ride with one headphone (in my case, earbud) so I often do that.

The great thing about riding clear of the door zone is that you no longer have to scrutinize every parked car to see whether there is anyone in it--just stay where the door can't hit you if it opens and concentrate on cars that are actually moving. Lots of streets in Los Angeles are wide enough for bikes to ride out of the door zone and still leave room for cars to pass in the same lane, but if the lane you are in is not that wide then you need to ride far enough to the left that drivers can't think there is enough room to pass you.

Remember, if drivers get mad at you and honk and shout you know for sure they see you. If Angelenos see you they won't hit you--it messes up their cars and makes them late for Pilates.
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Old 04-05-09, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dizon510
I was riding close to the curb/parked cars because I had read @ https://www.bikelink.com/law_safety.htm that this was the policy in California.

"Duty of Bicycle Operator: Operation On Roadway. VC 21202
a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
  1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle or motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
  2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
  3. When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane."
The last section seems to imply that it is fine for vehicles to pass you in the same lane, rather than have to switch lanes to pass.

Has anyone ever been pulled over in California, especially Southern California, for riding in the middle of the lane (closest to the curb)? The major street I was referring to initially was Wilshire Blvd from Westwood to Santa Monica. I'm pretty sure I would piss off quite a few drivers if I occupied the entire rightmost lane.
What we have been discussing here falls solidly under the "reasonably necessary to avoid conditions that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge." Riding in the door zone is unsafe. The list of example conditions in that statute is not all-inclusive, and failing to maintain a straight, predictable path so the rest of traffic knows where you are is also unsafe.

I also wonder if there is any such thing as a "standard width lane" according to that. Let's do the math: the average car is six feet wide but SUV's boost that to 6' 6" or more. I don't think as a cyclist, you should reasonably expect a car to safely ride any closer to the left edge of its lane than 18". A bike needs five feet at a bare minimum to allow for minor swerving to avoid glass or other road debris, besides, any less than that and traffic is closer than 18" from your handlebars. So adding that all up it's 1.5 + 6.5 + 5 equals 13 feet, and I consider all of those measurements on the conservative side. A little quick googling tells me that highway lanes are built to a standard 12 feet width, but streets in many cities have 11 or even 10 foot wide lanes.

Now consider your situation on an 11-foot wide urban lane. A reasonable person should assume the car coming behind him/her is 6.5 feet wide, and can safely ride no closer to the edge of the lane than 18". That leaves three feet of lane for you. Assuming your handlebars are two feet wide, now there's only six inches of clearance on either side. And that's very, very unsafe.

Last edited by threephi; 04-05-09 at 11:19 PM.
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