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Old 06-26-09, 07:54 PM   #1
ellerbro
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Joggers in Bike Lane, Why?

I saw some posts about various vehicles in bike lanes so I thought I'd continue the trend. I see lots of people jogging in the bike lane. They obviously prefer it to the sidewalk, why? A more even surface than the sidewalk?
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Old 06-26-09, 08:11 PM   #2
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Asphalt is actually a better surface to run on than concrete - it's more absorbent and therefore won't be as hard on the knees and ankles. But it's annoying, yes.
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Old 06-26-09, 08:15 PM   #3
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Plus a lot of joggers just like to run where it's inconvenient for everyone else. I had to "dance" with a jogger this morning who was running right up the middle of the car lane towards me this morning. I didn't want to go to the right of her, but as I moved left, she moved left (her right). I moved farther left and she moved farther left. She didn't see the car coming up behind her (fortunately very slowly)and it ended up mounting the curb to avoid her and I juked to my right as she moved into the other lane to keep me from going to the left (her right) of her......weird......
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Old 06-26-09, 08:25 PM   #4
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Before I became a daily bicycle commuter, I used to go jogging several mornings a week. I would occasionally use the bike lane as an asphalt running surface instead of running on the concrete sidewalk. I would run against traffic and stay close to the curb. If I saw a cyclist coming towards me in the bike lane, I would get back onto the sidewalk until the cyclist went by before going back into the bike lane. I did not want the cyclist to have to "play chicken" and guess the safest way to get around me in the bike lane, so I would get back onto the sidewalk. I wish more joggers would do that to avoid bike-jogger collisions. An on-street bike lane is not the same as a MUP separated from car traffic which is shared by bikes and pedestrians.
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Old 06-26-09, 08:36 PM   #5
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I have more problems with people going the wrong way in the bike lane.
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Old 06-26-09, 08:41 PM   #6
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Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".
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Old 06-26-09, 08:46 PM   #7
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A bicycle is a vehicle and belongs on the road.
A MUP is for little kidz on bikes, joggers, rollerbladers, walkers, etc.
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Old 06-26-09, 09:02 PM   #8
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A bicycle is a vehicle and belongs on the road.
A MUP is for little kidz on bikes, joggers, rollerbladers, walkers, etc.
Your MUPs are obviously not like our MUPs - if you had my route to work, you'd be singing a different tune.

As far as joggers in the bike lane, I understand why they want to run on asphalt instead of concrete, and I can respect that. I do appreciate it when joggers get on the sidewalk when I'm coming - it's much easier to hop the curb on foot than on a bike.

What I don't get are the joggers who run in the street or bike lane, but so close to the curb that they're running in the concrete gutter. WTF? Is the concrete in the gutter softer than the concrete on the sidewalk, or do they just know that "real" runners run in the street buy they don't know why?
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Old 06-26-09, 09:06 PM   #9
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Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".
+1 Amen!
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Old 06-26-09, 10:10 PM   #10
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I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken
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Old 06-26-09, 10:17 PM   #11
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i just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" he just smiled at me. I think i am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken
bici jousting!
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Old 06-26-09, 10:27 PM   #12
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I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken
Good call hahah. Teach people some lessons! Hahah.
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Old 06-26-09, 11:07 PM   #13
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Some people just seem so out of it. Plus they seem to even go there when the bike lane is active like during rush hour where I used to live there would actually be like 4-5 bikes per direction waiting at the light. Joggers shouldn't be in the lane period at that time. It's like the bikers going the wrong direction in the bike lanes. I have done more than my fair share of yelling at them too.

Plus on the Bike paths walkers/joggers think they own the whole thing and wont stay to the right. If I yell they really get startled and they do even when I just ring my bell and it would be nice if they actually would move instead of jumping and getting in my way. I feel bad for startling them but when they are in the way and can't here me approaching there is something going on. I know my pannier is loud since it rattles. I scared the snot out of a dog tonight when I took off to get around some people and made 3-4 jump. I make sure there is enough room to stop prior to getting to them though if they stay in the way.
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Old 06-26-09, 11:11 PM   #14
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I hate obstructions in the bike lane. Joggers, garbage cans, bike forking salmon
riding the wrong way. Get the h*ll out of my way.
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Old 06-26-09, 11:17 PM   #15
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I have more problems with people going the wrong way in the bike lane.
I've had runners tell me they find it safer to run against the traffic flow than with it. However, runners in the bike lane drives me nuts especially when they wont jump the curb and run in the grass for a couple of seconds if the road I am riding on is super busy with auto traffic.
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Old 06-26-09, 11:30 PM   #16
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I've had runners tell me they find it safer to run against the traffic flow than with it.
What is the logic behind this? Google seems to suggest that they feel safer being able to see the cars coming at them...
On a bike I certainly wouldn't feel safer facing traffic, so what is so different about jogging that flips this around?
I ride a bike with traffic, and trust that cars aren't interested in hitting me, so why don't joggers follow the same philosophy?

...I wonder if it has to do with the same reason joggers don't have reflectors or lights...

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Old 06-26-09, 11:40 PM   #17
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I just witnessed this tonight, and the first words out of my mouth were "nice bike!" He just smiled at me. I think I am going to hop on the old junker mountain bike, throw on some motocross padding, and hit that bike lane tomorrow, see if he wants to play chicken
Do it!

While I'm healing up from my accident I've noticed more and more pedestrians in bike lines in my motoring arounds. It gets my blood flowin'. I've often dreamed of what I'd say the the first jogger(s) I come across running in the opposite direction in the bike lane. I'd love to say this:

"Excuse me? Hi. Excuse me? Yeah, hi. Can I talk to you for a minute? Great. Yeah...I just wanted to let you know that I've survived being hit by negligent motorists twice now. And with all the drivers I gotta watch out for I don't need incompetent pedestriants endangering my life is well. This is a bike lane. Your sidewalk is right there."
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Old 06-27-09, 10:53 AM   #18
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Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".
I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock to you, but you're not a bike, either.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:18 AM   #19
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I saw some posts about various vehicles in bike lanes so I thought I'd continue the trend. I see lots of people jogging in the bike lane. They obviously prefer it to the sidewalk, why? A more even surface than the sidewalk?
Much, much more even: no driveway cutouts, tree roots, etc.
Much, much more compliant: go run 10 km on asphalt, then 10 km on concrete and your knees and ankles will tell you the difference.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:29 AM   #20
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Lookem right in the eyes and say, "you're not a bike".
Yeah. Don't forget to add "get on the sidewalk"! Got chewed out by an ignorant driver the other day? Pay it forward! When that jogger gets into his car and runs you off the road (nothing personal, but bikes shouldn't use "car lanes", you know) the cycle will be complete.

How is this different from the behaviour of drivers who are inconvenienced by your presence in "their" lane and want you to get into... say, the door zone bike lane to the right? Or onto a parallel "glorified sidewalk" MUP with broken glass and dangers at every intersection? In both cases, the slower, more vulnerable road user finds the alternative provided unsuitable and uncomfortable for his or her purpose. In both cases he or she uses a more suitable space that faster road users feel they "own".

There is lots of stink raised on these boards about laws on mandatory use of cycling facilities where available (and rightly so). Then why change the stance so dramatically when it comes to mandatory use of pedestrian facilities, even if a pedestrian believes it's an inferior and/or unsafe facility? Are there even any laws in your area that enforce mandatory use of sidewalks? I know some areas have that, but do they all? And a better question is should they have that law, if a sizeable proportion of pedestrians find sidewalks inconvenient enough to use the adjacent roadway instead? Nobody really WANTS to run closer to exhaust and moving traffic, so just like cyclists who avoid sidewalks, joggers must have a good reason to do that.

I'm not a jogger, by the way, and have never been, but come on, people, there are obvious parallels here. Moreover, even as a non-jogging pedestrian I'm often unhappy about the sidewalks here: they are narrow and they are made of concrete that must be pretty annoying for anyone on wheels (wheelchairs, strollers). Why is it standard practice in North America to have concrete sidewalks anyhow? It's not like that everywhere in the world; asphalt works just fine, and most pedestrians (of the ones who give a hoot one way or the other anyway) would probably prefer it, since it's smoother and softer (hence easier on knees).

Before you say that jogging is just purely recreational, btw: I know people who use jogging for transportation (walking is too slow, but jogging is just right). Again, can't help but think of the drivers who say that bikes are all toys and used for recreation and hence shouldn't be allowed on the road....

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Old 06-27-09, 11:38 AM   #21
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I hope this doesn't come as too much of a shock to you, but you're not a bike, either.
Good, cause I already knew I wasnt a car.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:40 AM   #22
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chephy, I have to agree with you, this is what I think when I read these threads. When I used to jog, I did it on the roads with few exceptions. If there had been a bike path, I would have run on that. Sure, I wish joggers and pedestrians would be a little more considerate. Considering the idea that there might be a cyclist on a bike path would be a good start. But I'm not going to begrudge them the use of public infrastructure. Particularly since there is no harm to me.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:45 AM   #23
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If we can complain about anything, it would be those ****ing in-line skaters that take up both lanes. I never see them on my runs in the forest, though.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:45 AM   #24
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Yeah. Don't forget to add "get on the sidewalk"! Got chewed out by an ignorant driver the other day? Pay it forward! When that jogger gets into his car and runs you off the road (nothing personal, but bikes shouldn't use "car lanes", you know) the cycle will be complete.

How is this different from the behaviour of drivers who are inconvenienced by your presence in "their" lane and want you to get into... say, the door zone bike lane to the right? Or onto a parallel "glorified sidewalk" MUP with broken glass and dangers at every intersection? In both cases, the slower, more vulnerable road user finds the alternative provided unsuitable and uncomfortable for his or her purpose. In both cases he or she uses a more suitable space that faster road users feel they "own".

There is lots of stink raised on these boards about laws on mandatory use of cycling facilities where available (and rightly so). Then why change the stance so dramatically when it comes to mandatory use of pedestrian facilities, even if a pedestrian believes it's an inferior and/or unsafe facility? Are there even any laws in your area that enforce mandatory use of sidewalks? I know some areas have that, but do they all? And a better question is should they have that law, if a sizeable proportion of pedestrians find sidewalks inconvenient enough to use the adjacent roadway instead? Nobody really WANTS to run closer to exhaust and moving traffic, so just like cyclists who avoid sidewalks, joggers must have a good reason to do that.

I'm not a jogger, by the way, and have never been, but come on, people, there are obvious parallels here. Moreover, even as a non-jogging pedestrian I'm often unhappy about the sidewalks here: they are narrow and they are made of concrete that must be pretty annoying for anyone on wheels (wheelchairs, strollers). Why is it standard practice in North America to have concrete sidewalks anyhow? It's not like that everywhere in the world; asphalt works just fine, and most pedestrians (of the ones who give a hoot one way or the other anyway) would probably prefer it, since it's smoother and softer (hence easier on knees).

Before you say that jogging is just purely recreational, btw: I know people who use jogging for transportation (walking is too slow, but jogging is just right). Again, can't help but think of the drivers who say that bikes are all toys and used for recreation and hence shouldn't be allowed on the road....

Lighten up Francis, I was trying to point out we get upset by drivers not thinking we should be in their lanes so we shoudl be a bit more tolerant of joggers. I have commuted in the big city for years. I have heard all the youre not a car, get on the side walk....and on andd on. Ususally joggers run toward traffic so they can get out of the way when they need to. Sorry if I was not clear.
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Old 06-27-09, 11:49 AM   #25
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Sure, I wish joggers and pedestrians would be a little more considerate. Considering the idea that there might be a cyclist on a bike path would be a good start.
I absolutely agree. I have a rather unfavourable opinion (to put it mildly) of inconsiderate walkers and joggers who crowd the whole path, or step onto the road right in front of you without looking. Respect, courtesy and a common sense are important no matter what vehicle you're using, shank's mare included.
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