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  1. #1
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    Cyclist killed Today :(

    June 26, 2009 02:29 PM

    A man, believed to be in his 60s, is dead after a bicycle and a sport utility vehicle collided in Vaughan Friday morning.

    Just heard about it on the news. It is always sad when something like this happens

    http://www.yorkregion.com/article/93752


    At about 9:25 a.m., a 2005 Chevrolet Trailblazer was stopped at red light facing southbound on Islington Avenue waiting to make a left to head east on Hwy. 7, according to Const. Marina Orlovski.

    When the light turned green, the Trailblazer pulled out and was struck on the drivers’ side door by a cyclist headed west on Hwy. 7, Const. Orlovski said.

    The bike’s male rider, who was not wearing a helmet, was pronounced dead at the scene.

    Police were working to conclusively identify the man as of 2:30 p.m., Const. Orlovski said.

    Several witnesses remained at the scene to assist police with the investigation, she added.

    If you have any information, call police at 1-866-876-5423, ext. 7703, Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS, leave a tip at www.1800222tips.com or text TIPYORK and your message to CRIMES (274637)
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  2. #2
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    If the driver's story is accurate, it was a simple case of running a red light by a bike.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

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    Helmetless rider blows a red light with predictable consequences.

    Some people die of stupid.

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    Oh, and I think the OP should correct the thread title to:

    Cyclist kills himself today.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwr1961 View Post
    Helmetless rider blows a red light with predictable consequences.
    Not necessarily. We have a number of locations locally where a cyclist can enter the intersection legally and the light cycle is too quick at common cycling speeds to get across before the opposing direction gets a green light. Especially on highways which are wider (take longer to cross) and where the timing may be based on an assumption of higher speed traffic. In the California Vehicle Code (which I think is pretty typical) there is an explicit requirement that drivers proceeding with a green light still yield to pedestrians and any vehicles that are already legally in the intersection.

    Obviously I don't know the details about what happened in this case, but the description doesn't make it clear that the cyclist was at fault.
    Last edited by prathmann; 06-26-09 at 10:06 PM.

  6. #6
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwr1961 View Post
    Helmetless rider blows a red light with predictable consequences.
    Not so predictable as all that. I only drive occasionally in New Orleans. Weekend dates with my wife mostly as we are a one car family. I would say over the past ten years, if I proceeded across a green light without looking for red light runners, I would be dead at least twice. And I would probably have AT LEAST a hundred notches on my steering wheel for idiot cyclists and pedestrians killed by me, although not my fault.

    Rule #1. Look both ways before you cross the street, light colors be damned!

    I run, on average, 16,000 red lights and stop signs combined each year just on my commute! Been doing that for 30 years and not one scratch. Ya know why? Yup. I look both ways, even when crossing one way streets. I look both ways when I have the right of way, and I look both ways when I don't. It is sooo simple.
    Last edited by JoeyBike; 06-26-09 at 10:11 PM.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  7. #7
    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeybike View Post

    rule #1. Look both ways before you cross the street, light colors be damned!
    +100000000000000000

  8. #8
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Not necessarily. We have a number of locations locally where a cyclist can enter the intersection legally and the light cycle is too quick at common cycling speeds to get across before the opposing direction gets a green light. Especially on highways which are wider (take longer to cross) and where the timing may be based on an assumption of higher speed traffic. In the California Vehicle Code (which I think is pretty typical) there is an explicit requirement that drivers proceeding with a green light still yield to pedestrians and any vehicles that are already legally in the intersection.

    Obviously I don't know the details about what happened in this case, but the description doesn't make it clear that the cyclist was at fault.

    I had to do a double take, I though I was in the AnS forum.

    I think the description makes it crystal clear that the cyclist was at fault. Red light, t-bone. Doesn't get much clearer than that.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  9. #9
    Goathead Magnet aley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobber View Post
    I had to do a double take, I though I was in the AnS forum.

    I think the description makes it crystal clear that the cyclist was at fault. Red light, t-bone. Doesn't get much clearer than that.
    Well, let's think about that.

    Looking at the intersection in Google Maps, it appears that it's approximately 80 feet from the second crosswalk line across the westbound lanes of Highway 7 to the eastern side of the left-turn lane on southbound Islington. Let's assume that the rider was moving along at 10 mph - that's around 15 feet per second, so it would take just over five seconds to cross those 80 feet. Now, I don't know the speed limit on Highway 7, but judging from the satellite view let's take a guess that it's about 60 km/h, or roughly 40 mph. An appropriate yellow light time for a stoplight on a 40 mph road is 3.9 seconds. Thus, if we assume that the light changed to yellow as the cyclist entered the intersection (in which case he is legally entitled to finish crossing), he'd still be a second away from crossing in front of the left turn lane when the light went to red. If, during that second, the SUV moved into the intersection, he'd hit it, yet not legally be at fault since he was in the intersection legally.

    Obviously, there are a lot of assumptions here regarding the length of the yellow light, the cyclist's speed, his position in the lane, where he was when the light changed, and whether there was any time period during which all directions of travel had red lights to allow the final cars to clear the intersection before the cross traffic got a green light. The point is, if you don't know all of this information, you can't accurately judge whether the cyclist or the driver was at fault.

    One thing is clear, though: If the driver had followed Joey's rule #1 above, the cyclist would not have hit him.

  10. #10
    Survival of the Fitest TheDL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    If the driver's story is accurate, it was a simple case of running a red light by a bike.
    And sans helmet. It's sad yes...but...
    ...take your protein pills and put your helmet on...
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Commando303's Avatar
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    Wow, how nice of people to label a dead man "stupid." Even if a person did a somewhat thoughtless thing (and I don't know this one did) that led to his or her death, the fact is, I think, sad, not worthy of scorn.

  12. #12
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    It looks like the cyclist was at fault this time ie. if the story is accurate...but it's still very sad news. No need to be mean and critical, because anybody can make a mistake.

  13. #13
    pedalphile
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    Quote Originally Posted by aley View Post
    Well, let's think about that.

    Looking at the intersection in Google Maps, it appears that it's approximately 80 feet from the second crosswalk line across the westbound lanes of Highway 7 to the eastern side of the left-turn lane on southbound Islington. Let's assume that the rider was moving along at 10 mph - that's around 15 feet per second, so it would take just over five seconds to cross those 80 feet. Now, I don't know the speed limit on Highway 7, but judging from the satellite view let's take a guess that it's about 60 km/h, or roughly 40 mph. An appropriate yellow light time for a stoplight on a 40 mph road is 3.9 seconds. Thus, if we assume that the light changed to yellow as the cyclist entered the intersection (in which case he is legally entitled to finish crossing), he'd still be a second away from crossing in front of the left turn lane when the light went to red. If, during that second, the SUV moved into the intersection, he'd hit it, yet not legally be at fault since he was in the intersection legally.

    Obviously, there are a lot of assumptions here regarding the length of the yellow light, the cyclist's speed, his position in the lane, where he was when the light changed, and whether there was any time period during which all directions of travel had red lights to allow the final cars to clear the intersection before the cross traffic got a green light. The point is, if you don't know all of this information, you can't accurately judge whether the cyclist or the driver was at fault.

    One thing is clear, though: If the driver had followed Joey's rule #1 above, the cyclist would not have hit him.
    If he was traveling that slowly, it's unlikely he would have been killed. Also, the point of entering the intersection while the light is still green or perhaps just turning yellow is valid, for a car traveling at the posted speed as he will be through the intersection in time. If you are plodding along slowly on a bike, you had best be glancing up at that light as you pass through and ensure that you don't end up smack in the middle of the intersection while the crossing traffic has the green light.

    I'm really not certain exactly what the law reads in this regard, but, imo, it doesn't really matter. If I put myself in a position where I am counting on crossing traffic to look for me prior to proceeding on a green light, then I am quite simply, easy pickings for chuck darwin.

    Not happy to ever read about a cyclist being taken out, but, when one goes out like this, assuming the account is right, I don't lose any sleep over it.

    Cyclists being mowed down from behind by dooshbags on their cell phones is a different story. That scares the hell out of me.

  14. #14
    pedalphile
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando303 View Post
    Wow, how nice of people to label a dead man "stupid." Even if a person did a somewhat thoughtless thing (and I don't know this one did) that led to his or her death, the fact is, I think, sad, not worthy of scorn.
    No, dead men aren't stupid. They're just dead. If this guy did what is claimed, he sure as hell did something stupid, which, IMO goes way beyond somewhat thoughtless.

    If somewhat thoughtless was likely to get you dead, I think we'd all be done for. I know I would.

    RIP, anyway.

  15. #15
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aley View Post
    An appropriate yellow light time for a stoplight on a 40 mph road is 3.9 seconds.
    Where did you derive this tidbit of information from?

    You leave out the amount of time it takes from a light turning red to the opposing one turning green. Also the amount of reaction time for the driver to realize the light has changed and begin moving. The rate of acceleration, etc, etc, etc.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  16. #16
    Twincities MN kuan's Avatar
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    No timed delay light at this intersection?

  17. #17
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aley View Post
    Well, let's think about that.

    Looking at the intersection in Google Maps, it appears that it's approximately 80 feet from the second crosswalk line across the westbound lanes of Highway 7 to the eastern side of the left-turn lane on southbound Islington. Let's assume that the rider was moving along at 10 mph - that's around 15 feet per second, so it would take just over five seconds to cross those 80 feet. Now, I don't know the speed limit on Highway 7, but judging from the satellite view let's take a guess that it's about 60 km/h, or roughly 40 mph. An appropriate yellow light time for a stoplight on a 40 mph road is 3.9 seconds. Thus, if we assume that the light changed to yellow as the cyclist entered the intersection (in which case he is legally entitled to finish crossing), he'd still be a second away from crossing in front of the left turn lane when the light went to red. If, during that second, the SUV moved into the intersection, he'd hit it, yet not legally be at fault since he was in the intersection legally.

    Obviously, there are a lot of assumptions here regarding the length of the yellow light, the cyclist's speed, his position in the lane, where he was when the light changed, and whether there was any time period during which all directions of travel had red lights to allow the final cars to clear the intersection before the cross traffic got a green light. The point is, if you don't know all of this information, you can't accurately judge whether the cyclist or the driver was at fault.

    One thing is clear, though: If the driver had followed Joey's rule #1 above, the cyclist would not have hit him.
    The cyclist was heading westbound, which is a large downhill into the humber valley. Easy to get up to 60kms/hr on that stretch. Also at 9:25AM there was probably bright sun at his back.

    That said, that intersection sucks. Its super high volume and drivers in that part of town are reliably careless and agressive.

    So, 2 people know what really happened (well, 1 now I suppose), the rest is speculation.

  18. #18
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    All we have is the driver's side of the story. It 'sounds' like the rider is at fault, but for all we know the driver jumped the light and there isn't anyone's story to contradict what he told police.

    He should have been wearing a helmet, but either way it is still unfortunate he had to die.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Not necessarily. We have a number of locations locally where a cyclist can enter the intersection legally and the light cycle is too quick at common cycling speeds to get across before the opposing direction gets a green light. Especially on highways which are wider (take longer to cross) and where the timing may be based on an assumption of higher speed traffic. In the California Vehicle Code (which I think is pretty typical) there is an explicit requirement that drivers proceeding with a green light still yield to pedestrians and any vehicles that are already legally in the intersection.

    Obviously I don't know the details about what happened in this case, but the description doesn't make it clear that the cyclist was at fault.
    My brain tells me that if that were the case he should have been able to stop in time to miss the driver side door of the SUV. I'm not saying this as an absolute, just saying that him running a red sounds a lot more likely.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlester View Post
    All we have is the driver's side of the story. It 'sounds' like the rider is at fault, but for all we know the driver jumped the light and there isn't anyone's story to contradict what he told police.

    He should have been wearing a helmet, but either way it is still unfortunate he had to die.
    This sounds like the most plausible way for the driver to be at fault: He pulled out before he had the green. Lying is always a possibility.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by macteacher View Post
    ...Several witnesses remained at the scene to assist police with the investigation, she added.
    Maybe we'll actually learn the truth... I'll lay odds at this point that the cyclist was at fault based on the preponderance of evidence.

  22. #22
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crhilton View Post
    This sounds like the most plausible way for the driver to be at fault: He pulled out before he had the green. Lying is always a possibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by dwr1961 View Post
    Maybe we'll actually learn the truth... I'll lay odds at this point that the cyclist was at fault based on the preponderance of evidence.
    The truth rarely matters here, the motorist is always at fault.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  23. #23
    Randomhead
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    I have to admit that I'm always suspicious that the motorist might be at fault, and I think past events justify that. At least the motorist didn't say "he swerved" in this case. It does seem to me that stop lights/stop signs at the bottom of hills are approached with an incredibly dangerous mindset by many cyclists. I prefer to lose a lot of kinetic energy rather than lose my life.

  24. #24
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    Something happened - we can't know for sure what. The victim of the occurence is dead and can't defend himself. The only other person who *might* know what happened (or might not - perhaps he was distracted, did not note exactly what colour the lights were, made an honest mistake etc. etc.) has a lot of interest in convincing us that it was the victim's fault. Given such a situation it seems wrong to me to just assign all blame to the victim without any further investigation. I know that's what many cyclists would prefer to do so, since it makes them feel safer ("oh, it won't happen to me if I'm careful and don't blow red lights"), but such wishful thinking, in absence of very solid evidence, merits much disdain.

    It's likely we'll never know for sure what happened, even with eyewitness accounts. One thing we do know though is that the man is now dead. A tragic and sobering fact. My condolences to his friends and family.
    Stomping as lightly as I can...

  25. #25
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlester View Post
    He should have been wearing a helmet
    No such thread is complete without the helmet nannies, sure. Never mind that there is absolutely no reason to believe that a helmet would have made any difference. They'll never miss a chance to preach their favourite mantra.
    Stomping as lightly as I can...

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