luderart

Insufficient background research to understand what: placebo effects or surgical mask performance?

When I experience benefits from something, what added benefit would there be in understanding its effects through research? I doubt there would be much except to satisfy the mind. When I experience benefits which research may tell me do not exist, am I to believe research or my own experience? You are totally discounting first-hand experience in favour of research. I think this in itself constitutes a kind of placebo-like neutralization of any benefits which we experience from any action pending the outcome of research studies into the matter. I think experience is the basis of theory which in turn is the basis of any useful research. Before telling me surgical masks are no use and any effect they have is due to the placebo effect, go and try them on in traffic; or suffer the consequences in venturing out into smoke without one while all the while reasoning that no such benefit exists because you haven't done sufficient research in order to back what you experience!

CCrew

Ya know something? I'm 53 years old, have been riding for years without a mask... and i'm still ALIVE! (and healthy to boot)

HTFU and ride already.

Eclectus

Ride slow. Breath through your nose. It's a filter. Blow the snot out when you get home. If you have a microscope, you could check to see if there are any black particles.

luderart

Well, maybe I am more sensitive to these toxins than you are!

CCrew

Maybe you're just overthinking it

daven1986

I read somewhere that people at risk of pollution on the roads goes like this:

Worst: people in cars / buses
Then bicyclists
Then Pedestrians

I once worried about it, but then after some reading I realised a mask will cause a lot of bother - spots due to bacterial build up, harder to breathe etc.

I figured that exercising will do me more good than the bit of pollution I breathe in!

travelmama

+1
OP- Since you feel the need to argue every point made, why did you bother posting? It makes no sense. Just tape a maxi-pad with wings around a bandana and cover your mouth so that you are really protected and be done with it.

Alfster 

Anytime you put a filter between yourself and pollution you're getting some filtration benefits. If you're noticing a difference, and you're not restricting your air intake too much, I would continue wearing a mask. The good news is that you're stopping most of the larger particles in the air, however the mask is likely only stopping a small percentage of the smaller particulates found in car exhaust. A chemical filtration mask may suit your application a bit better than a plain surgical mask.

Out of curiousity, how bad is the pollution in Lebanon? I'm lucky enough to be able to commute on a bike path system along our river for 1/2 my ride. Once I hit the roads I try to stay on less travelled, less polluted, streets.

Alfster 

Nothing wrong with arguing a point. Do you want everyone to agree with your opinion? These threads would be quite short if we all agreed about everything.

luderart

Well, I would say pretty bad. There are lots of cars in Lebanon. And the roads are filled with many motorcycles which give out filthy white or black or grey smoke. Someone told me it's because they mix oil with the fuel. There are also the diesel powered vans which give out black smoke. And there are often cars with faulty motors that emanate toxic white smoke!

By the way, Happy New Year everyone. Let's hope the smoke will be less this year!

Alfster 

Sounds nasty. Stay healthy out there. Definitely try to take the path less travelled to avoid as much polution as possible.

Happy New Year!!!

pharasz

OK here is a point nobody has made yet:

About ten years ago I read of a study that was done to determine if joggers in large air polluted cities were endangering their lungs by running in polluted air. They examined the lungs of joggers (I don't recall how, maybe CAT scans?) in a particular city and compared them to their sedentary neighbors (all were non-smokers). What they found was the joggers, in general, had cleaner lungs than the sedentary types. You would think that all that heavy breathing in polluted air would make the joggers' lungs worse, not better. But what the researchers determined is that when breathing heavily, you exhale with more force than you inhale, thereby ELIMINATING pollutants from your lungs, and doing a much better job of it than a sedentary person who is, say, riding in a car. In essence, when you relax your lungs inflate - you breathe by forcing the air out of them, not by sucking the air in. When breathing heavily, you are actively pulling in and pushing out, but the body does a much better job pushing the air out than pulling it in.

Conclusion: Don't worry about it. By exercising, you are doing more good to clean your lungs than wearing a mask.

MilitantPotato

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post2142830
That thread should cover any questions you might have. All of that guy's posts are very detailed.
Full thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ollution-masks

ItsJustMe

Every place I've lived has had extremely good air quality. Most of my ride these days goes through farmland, and the air quality here is in the top 10 percentile in the US, so I don't have too much trouble.

That said, we also don't have any emissions testing for cars, and occasionally one will go by that's so bad that my eyes will still be watering pretty badly a minute later. They're the reason I wish we had emissions testing here.

prathmann

And even earlier there was a similar study done in Washington, DC, comparing car commuters with bike commuters who cycled on heavily traveled arterial routes. That study also found that the cyclists had lower levels of pollutants detectable in their blood and lungs. In addition to the positive effects of exercise the study authors hypothesized that factors leading to more exposure in the car drivers included 1) that the air intakes of cars were physically lower and pulling in more polluted air, and 2) the cyclists were more cognizant of point sources of pollution and could take some steps to minimize their exposure - i.e. if you see a car with a smoking exhaust you can hold your breath momentarily or speed up/slow down to get away from it. Car drivers are more trapped in the traffic stream.

tjspiel

A while back someone posted here trying to gauge the interest in filtration masks for biking. There wasn't a lot. I think masks like that are more readily accepted in developing countries or places with high population densities than they are in most of North America.

A relative of mine spent some time in a mid-sized African city and was surprised at the amount of air pollution. She's an avid runner but got sick the first time she tried running there and never attempted it again. Don't know if she's more sensitive to pollutants than most or not.

I don't know how much benefit there is to wearing a surgical mask but I have no doubt that there are places in this world where the air is bad enough to pose health risks to cyclists and anyone else breathing it.

tjspiel

We used to have mandatory emissions testing here but supposedly the air quality is now good enough that it's not needed. I'm sure there are statistics somewhere on how many cars failed and later passed. You would think failing an emission test is a sign of a car not functioning properly and that often their gas mileage would suffer too so there's a dual benefit to addressing the problems.

The tests were somewhat controversial. Newer cars rarely failed so that many people felt it was a waste of time and money to get their cars tested. I think the cost of the tests were added to the license fees but I don't remember for sure. Cars that failed were typically older and not well maintained, and the owners often poor so getting repairs in order to pass the test could be a financial burden (though there was a limit on what you had to spend).

sc0ch

OP

It's cool to see somebody wearing a mask, I might try wearing one too. Polyaromatic hydrocarbons in soot and visible exuast are disgusting and hazardous. Anything that helps, sign me up.

MNBikeguy

Y'all are getting the placebo effect. To accomplish filtration from gases will require a system similar to what fire fighters wear; a gas mask or air replacing respirator.

banerjek

Short of wearing some sort of respirator, no. A surgical mask will do nothing to reduce exposure to poison gases, though some types of masks might noticeably reduce the amount of particulates you inhale.

For all of you guys that are busting the OP's balls, this guy is probably not as nuts as he sounds. I've never been to Lebanon, but the air pollution in some countries is simply mind blowing. For example, in some Indian cities such as Delhi, it is so bad that you can barely make out the sun on a clear day, but you can see a flashlight beam in broad daylight -- I am not exaggerating. The closest experience many of us will have is riding in areas where forest fires are burning.

The only solution that makes any sense to me is to see if there's another location you can move to where the air isn't so bad. Even in countries where air is terrible, predominant weather patterns will make the air much cleaner in some areas than others.

JanMM

Correct that neither a surgical mask or even an N95 mask will filter out any gases. The surgical mask will stop some stuff floating around and the N95 will stop smaller stuff floating around (such as mycobacterium tuberculosis).

ItsJustMe

It's too bad that it's considered OK to piss in the well if the well is pretty clean, but they want to stop you if it's already polluted.

IMO, polluting should be stopped regardless of whether the air is currently clean or not. It seems stupid to let people dump crud into the air until the air is unbreathable, then try to stop them.

banerjek

I favor sending the people who think clean air legislation is a bleeding heart plot to wreck economic development for a few months in a major Chinese or Indian city. There is no way I'd be able to ride as hard, far, fast, or as long in these places as I can in the US.

NinetiesKid

I'm not sure if it has any effect on toxins and particulates released from car engines, but as an asthmatic I've been experimenting lately. I heard that vitamin C helps reduce the amount of particles that permeate through the air sacs in the lungs. While home for the holidays, I've tried this.

I'm generally very allergic to dogs and cats, so much so that when I visit friends with pets, carpet, and the heater on, I generally don't last but about 30 minutes before I have to go outside or use Albuterol. I was either drinking enough orange juice or tangerines to get enough Vitamin C daily. I immediately saw an improvement in my asthma. I originally thought it may be placebo effect. However I ended up passing out at a friends house that I usually last about an hour in. I woke up after about 9 hours of sleep on his carpeted floor (usually really bad for me) and I felt perfectly normal.

At any rate, I'm back in Atlanta now where I live car free and ride my bike perhaps a dozen miles daily. I have noticed some breathing issues on heavy traffic days, but will be drinking juice daily to see if there is any difference. Perhaps some of you can try it out to see if you can feel a difference. Worst case scenario you get a serving of fruits every day.

luderart

Very interesting! My nephew, who is 4-years old, has asthma and is very allergic to our dog. I will tell my sister to give him vitamin C. How much do you take for for it to be effective? I also sometimes take vitamin C. Maybe from now on I'll be taking it more regularly.